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Old
07-06-2006, 07:23 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Daryl Sutter said an interesting thing in an interview yesterday - he said that it's important to have a core of players between 23 and 30 years of age to be successful.

Here's a look at the Hab roster entering this season:

23-30 years old entering training camp:

Bouillon
Souray
Dandy
Markov
Streit
Komo
Aebischer
Zednik
Bonk
Begin
Ribs
Ryder
Murray
Plekanec
Higgins
Perezhogin

16 players between the age of 23 and 30 on the roster at this point, five defencemen in their late 20s or 30 years old, just reaching their primes as defencemen, six forwards 26 or younger either entering their mid or early primes.

Here are the players knocking on the door:

Lapierre
Kostitsyn
Chipchura
Latendresse

A couple of 21-year-olds, a 20-year-old and a teenager. At least one of those players should be on an NHL roster this fall. If they were on the Leafs roster at least three of them would be starting the season in Toronto. Same thing for Boston, who has a grand total of 12 players signed for next season. Now there's a team that will have loads of chemistry, what with about three or four homegrown talents on the roster.

The old men on our roster, Koivu, Kovalev and Rivet, are all in their early 30s and very much in their primes. The other old guy, Huet, is just entering his goaltending prime.

Call me crazy, but I'm sorta glad Bob hasn't done a pile of tinkering. There's little reason not to believe that this team will not improve as our young core grows. Komo and Streit will be better, Zhogy, Higgins, Murray and Plekanec will be better, Ribeiro BETTER be better, Ryder will hopefully be healthy all season, Zednik and Bonk can't be worse.......

How many other teams can boast a deeper young core with NHL experience than the Habs? Not many.

I would like the team to add Shanahan for a veteran presence and proven goal scoring, and from all accounts Bob is attempting to do that, and also tried to lure Elias and Arnott. I don't think we can ask for much more - I'm very glad that he's not panicking and signing a Marc Savard for $20M just for the sake of getting someone; he targetted certain players, and isn't looking for UFA scrubs as he knows he has good young players ready to take those roster spots at a cheaper price.

Is Boston suddenly going to be great because they added an impact defenceman with mobility questions? He wasn't invinceable versus the Habs last season, why would it be different on a worse team? Ottawa lost that impact defenceman some think is going to make Boston so much better, plus another underrrated defenceman in Pothier. They lose Hasek and sign Gerber - which goalie as a Hab fan would you rather face next season? Corvo can be a sieve in his own end - I can't wait to see Zhogy and higgy forechecking like buzzsaws against him instead of Chara.

Toronto still sucks up front, and I don't think Raycroft is any better than Belfour, certainly not better than the Belfour of 2003. They have three solid defencemen, but I'm not crazy about the Leafs' bottom four; Toronto is going to have a new goalie, new coaches and at least four new defencemen. The Habs have the same seven returning defencemen - how many teams can boast that?



Carbo said the other day that Bob has tried to sign a couple of players and was outbid. Now he will explore some trade possibilities.

If the trades don't happen before the season starts, it's not a big deal; this is a decent team that may be a contending team. If Ribeiro isn't better we have Plekanec to replace him and Lapierre or Chipchura to come in at center; if Zednik starts the season and is unmotivated, we have Kostitsyn more than happy to take his spot. Zednik and Ribeiro can be dealt after the season starts, same thing with Souray. There will be other teams that have players that start out slowly, or run into injuries.

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07-06-2006, 07:31 PM
  #27
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so is it that people are finally starting to undertsand or all the whiners havent showed up yet?

very nice post turnbuckle i agree with 99% of what you said
exept that if Ribs fails, I won t be really confident with plek as 2nd C, well he s gonna probably become better but hast showed me enough yet
And Chip and Lapierre haven t made the team yet

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07-06-2006, 07:58 PM
  #28
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We will hear alot of people bash the Habs and put them like 10th in the conference. People will put teams that made move like Boston and Florida 7th and 8th and ditch the Habs.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=266563

Thats ridiculous imo , it's not because a team made a few deals that they are better. Myself im confident the Habs will be better than last year , just having Huet there the whole year will give us at least 15 more points in the standings ( or Abby if Huet has some problems )

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07-06-2006, 08:12 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaku View Post
Those question marks can be said of any team. The canadiens are a young team, much likely becoming younger the next few years and they'll probably fight for a playoff spot for that same reason. That said, I'm very confident about next season. I think the next rookie crop is even better then the last one.
I've been meaning to ask this for a long time

what up with all this 30% stuff?

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07-06-2006, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej View Post
We will hear alot of people bash the Habs and put them like 10th in the conference. People will put teams that made move like Boston and Florida 7th and 8th and ditch the Habs.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=266563

Thats ridiculous imo , it's not because a team made a few deals that they are better. Myself im confident the Habs will be better than last year , just having Huet there the whole year will give us at least 15 more points in the standings ( or Abby if Huet has some problems )
People were doing the same last year with Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago. While Buffalo & Carolina were being ridiculed for signing only mid-level UFAs. Nothing new. Many people only look at recent moves and forget to look at the whole picture.


Last edited by Turbo: 07-06-2006 at 11:18 PM.
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07-06-2006, 08:20 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I've been meaning to ask this for a long time

what up with all this 30% stuff?
This is a running gag from a few months back. Before the playoffs, this poster Wildone was adamant about his predictions about which goalie would start the playoffs - saying that Aebischer would start because Gainey "loves" him while he "hates" Huet (paraphrasing, but his reasons were basically just baseless crap borderlining conspiracy theory - Wildone didn't seem to hate Huet himself, he just thought the Habs brass were out to get him). He even gave the very precise 30% figure as a chance that Huet would start for the playoffs. People ran with it. Anyway, it's been a while, and my memory is not what it used to be, but that's how I remember it.


Last edited by Turbo: 07-06-2006 at 08:34 PM.
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07-06-2006, 08:21 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sthabs View Post
so is it that people are finally starting to undertsand or all the whiners havent showed up yet?

very nice post turnbuckle i agree with 99% of what you said
exept that if Ribs fails, I won t be really confident with plek as 2nd C, well he s gonna probably become better but hast showed me enough yet
And Chip and Lapierre haven t made the team yet
I wasn't specific but I did mention that if Ribs fails he should be dealt - what I failed to say was in a package to get a second line center. In the meantime Plekanec is an able replacement IMO.

The wild card is Grabovsky. He may come over and wow the brass, and make the acquisition of a second-line center moot if Ribs fails.

I'm still holding out hope that Bob can swing a deal for a Weiss or Legwand, guys that could be part of a young core that has a chance to be pretty special in two or three years time.

Sign Markov, deal Souray and Ribs for Legwand.

Just because we signed Ribs doesn't mean he won't be traded; quite the opposite.

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07-06-2006, 08:25 PM
  #33
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Oh, and nice post turnbuckle... very nice read and very similar to how I see it as well.

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07-06-2006, 10:45 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
This is a running gag from a few months back. Before the playoffs, this poster Wildone was adamant about his predictions about which goalie would start the playoffs - saying that Aebischer would start because Gainey "loves" him while he "hates" Huet (paraphrasing, but his reasons were basically just baseless crap borderlining conspiracy theory - Wildone didn't seem to hate Huet himself, he just thought the Habs brass were out to get him). He even gave the very precise 30% figure as a chance that Huet would start for the playoffs. People ran with it. Anyway, it's been a while, and my memory is not what it used to be, but that's how I remember it.
Nope, the 30% figure is not about the chance of Huet starting the playoffs.

After the playoffs began (and Wildone26's guess proved to be wrong...oh, by the way, his argument was that Gainey wants to play the players he deals for), the Bruins signed Tim Thomas to a 3-year deal worth 3 millions (so 1 million per year).

Wildone26 pretended for weeks that Huet would receive only a 1 year, 1 million deal, i.e. 30% (33,3333 to be accurate) of what Tim Thomas, a comparable goalie in his eyes, will earn.

Finally, we all know that Huet will earn more than 200% than Tim Thomas in only 2 years.

And which is still less than what Ottawa will pay Gerber...

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07-06-2006, 11:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by StanAjax View Post
Nope, the 30% figure is not about the chance of Huet starting the playoffs.

After the playoffs began (and Wildone26's guess proved to be wrong...oh, by the way, his argument was that Gainey wants to play the players he deals for), the Bruins signed Tim Thomas to a 3-year deal worth 3 millions (so 1 million per year).

Wildone26 pretended for weeks that Huet would receive only a 1 year, 1 million deal, i.e. 30% (33,3333 to be accurate) of what Tim Thomas, a comparable goalie in his eyes, will earn.

Finally, we all know that Huet will earn more than 200% than Tim Thomas in only 2 years.

And which is still less than what Ottawa will pay Gerber...

Thaaaat's what it was! I was trying to remember... brain cells aren't what they used to be . All I could remember was that stupid argument he had about Aebischer being Gainey's boy to start the playoffs. Whatever happened to the Wildone anyway?

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07-06-2006, 11:15 PM
  #36
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Our divison is getting weaker, our kids are getting older/experienced, our goalies are more solid, our D is above avrage and should have more cohesion than last year, our coaching staff is great... why the hell would we not make the playoffs?

Preidction:Top 5 in the eastern confrence.

Stupid thread IMO

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07-07-2006, 06:39 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Daryl Sutter said an interesting thing in an interview yesterday - he said that it's important to have a core of players between 23 and 30 years of age to be successful.

Here's a look at the Hab roster entering this season:

23-30 years old entering training camp:

Bouillon
Souray
Dandy
Markov
Streit
Komo
Aebischer
Zednik
Bonk
Begin
Ribs
Ryder
Murray
Plekanec
Higgins
Perezhogin

16 players between the age of 23 and 30 on the roster at this point, five defencemen in their late 20s or 30 years old, just reaching their primes as defencemen, six forwards 26 or younger either entering their mid or early primes.

Here are the players knocking on the door:

Lapierre
Kostitsyn
Chipchura
Latendresse

A couple of 21-year-olds, a 20-year-old and a teenager. At least one of those players should be on an NHL roster this fall. If they were on the Leafs roster at least three of them would be starting the season in Toronto. Same thing for Boston, who has a grand total of 12 players signed for next season. Now there's a team that will have loads of chemistry, what with about three or four homegrown talents on the roster.

The old men on our roster, Koivu, Kovalev and Rivet, are all in their early 30s and very much in their primes. The other old guy, Huet, is just entering his goaltending prime.

Call me crazy, but I'm sorta glad Bob hasn't done a pile of tinkering. There's little reason not to believe that this team will not improve as our young core grows. Komo and Streit will be better, Zhogy, Higgins, Murray and Plekanec will be better, Ribeiro BETTER be better, Ryder will hopefully be healthy all season, Zednik and Bonk can't be worse.......

How many other teams can boast a deeper young core with NHL experience than the Habs? Not many.

I would like the team to add Shanahan for a veteran presence and proven goal scoring, and from all accounts Bob is attempting to do that, and also tried to lure Elias and Arnott. I don't think we can ask for much more - I'm very glad that he's not panicking and signing a Marc Savard for $20M just for the sake of getting someone; he targetted certain players, and isn't looking for UFA scrubs as he knows he has good young players ready to take those roster spots at a cheaper price.

Is Boston suddenly going to be great because they added an impact defenceman with mobility questions? He wasn't invinceable versus the Habs last season, why would it be different on a worse team? Ottawa lost that impact defenceman some think is going to make Boston so much better, plus another underrrated defenceman in Pothier. They lose Hasek and sign Gerber - which goalie as a Hab fan would you rather face next season? Corvo can be a sieve in his own end - I can't wait to see Zhogy and higgy forechecking like buzzsaws against him instead of Chara.

Toronto still sucks up front, and I don't think Raycroft is any better than Belfour, certainly not better than the Belfour of 2003. They have three solid defencemen, but I'm not crazy about the Leafs' bottom four; Toronto is going to have a new goalie, new coaches and at least four new defencemen. The Habs have the same seven returning defencemen - how many teams can boast that?



Carbo said the other day that Bob has tried to sign a couple of players and was outbid. Now he will explore some trade possibilities.

If the trades don't happen before the season starts, it's not a big deal; this is a decent team that may be a contending team. If Ribeiro isn't better we have Plekanec to replace him and Lapierre or Chipchura to come in at center; if Zednik starts the season and is unmotivated, we have Kostitsyn more than happy to take his spot. Zednik and Ribeiro can be dealt after the season starts, same thing with Souray. There will be other teams that have players that start out slowly, or run into injuries.
very good post!

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07-07-2006, 07:17 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Same thing for Boston, who has a grand total of 12 players signed for next season. Now there's a team that will have loads of chemistry, what with about three or four homegrown talents on the roster.
Don't want to be a thorn in your side, but the bruins will have a good amount of homegrown talent on the roster. Bergeron, Murray, Axelsson, Stastny, Alberts, Toivonen, Thomas, Jurcina, and M. Stuart will be playing for the Bruins, all drafted by Boston(except Thomas, but Boston is the only place that ever gave him a chance). B. Stuart, Sturm, and Primeau were able to gel with the team last season after the Thornton trade. Other players who gelled last season include Boyes and Tanabe. Other homegrown talent that could possibly crack the roster include Krejci, Karsums, Kalus, Walter, Lashoff(unlikely), and possibly Kessel if he is ready to turn pro. They Bruins just bolstered their team this offseason, by adding two players in their prime (Chara and Savard), trading a problem for a solution (Boynton for Mara), and adding a third/fourth line energy guy who brings the speed that our GM Chiarelli wants (Donovan). Suffice to say, I think the Bruins are going to surprise a lot of people this upcoming year.

Don't worry, I also believe that your Habs team will make the playoffs. Your young players (such as Higgins, Plekanec, etc) now have more experience. The Habs could be a dangerous team next season.

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07-07-2006, 07:24 AM
  #39
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Don't want to be a thorn in your side, but the bruins will have a good amount of homegrown talent on the roster. Bergeron, Murray, Axelsson, Stastny, Alberts, Toivonen, Thomas, Jurcina, and M. Stuart will be playing for the Bruins, all drafted by Boston(except Thomas, but Boston is the only place that ever gave him a chance). B. Stuart, Sturm, and Primeau were able to gel with the team last season after the Thornton trade. Other players who gelled last season include Boyes and Tanabe. Other homegrown talent that could possibly crack the roster include Krejci, Karsums, Kalus, Walter, Lashoff(unlikely), and possibly Kessel if he is ready to turn pro. They Bruins just bolstered their team this offseason, by adding two players in their prime (Chara and Savard), trading a problem for a solution (Boynton for Mara), and adding a third/fourth line energy guy who brings the speed that our GM Chiarelli wants (Donovan). Suffice to say, I think the Bruins are going to surprise a lot of people this upcoming year.

Don't worry, I also believe that your Habs team will make the playoffs. Your young players (such as Higgins, Plekanec, etc) now have more experience. The Habs could be a dangerous team next season.
Kessel might make the team imo. He wont be dominant but I see him with a boyes type season playing with Bergeron.

Kessel-Bergeron-Boyes
Murray-Savard-Sturm

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07-07-2006, 07:26 AM
  #40
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Identical thread number 3,274 reporting for duty Sir
Ain't that the truth.

And like someone else said...it's July not October.

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07-07-2006, 11:26 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by 19bruins19 View Post
Don't want to be a thorn in your side, but the bruins will have a good amount of homegrown talent on the roster. Bergeron, Murray, Axelsson, Stastny, Alberts, Toivonen, Thomas, Jurcina, and M. Stuart
Thomas a home-grown talent? Give me a break. Drafted by Quebec in 1994, joined the Providence Bruins several years later.

Murray was already traded away and re-obtained - doesn't qualify in my mind as a homegrown talent.

Stastny may make the team; if he does you're not likely making the playoffs with that lack of depth. He's no more NHL ready than Kostitsyn, and not as talented.

If Alberts, Stuart and Jurcina are all on your blueline, you're definitely not making the playoffs. I think the club learned its lesson last year when those three and Dallman were in the lineup at the same point at times; no wonder you finished in the bottom five with four rookie dmen, hardly all Raycroft's fault.

Bergeron
Axelsson
Toivunen
two sophomore defencemen, maybe three

You're probably going to have five homegrown talents, perhaps six if Stastny makes it or even seven if you go with three sophomore defencemen; a patchwork club at best, and not the first time the Bruins blew up the roster and expected a team thrown together to have instant chemistry - nice to see Sinden and Jacobs sticking their noses in the middle of things as usual.

There are some good prospects among Krejci, Karsums, Kalus, Walter, Lashoff and particularly Kessel, but none of them except perhaps Phil are NHL ready IMO; at least they wouldn't be ready to crack the Habs squad.

Montreal homegrown talent

Koivu
Higgins
Ryder
Perezhogin
Plekanec
Rivet
Streit
Komisarek
Bouillon (played four games for Nashville, but not traded)
Kostitsyn


Habs that have played together for last three seasons+

Koivu
Rivet
Zednik
Ribeiro
Souray
Markov
Bouillon
Komisarek (two and a half seasons)

How many Bruins have been with the team for the past three seasons?

Murray, Axelsson and........?

Montreal has a better homegrown base, good team chemistry with eight club veterans and 16+ returnees, a better group of players in their early primes (23-26), and a better prospect base.



Kostitsyn
Price
Latendresse
Chipchura
Fischer
Grabovsky
Lapierre
Maxwell
Emelin
O'Byrne
White
Danis
S Kostitsyn
Carle
Halak
D'Agostini
Ferland
Cote
Korpikari
Locke


vs.


Kessel
Stastny
Karsums
Alexandrov
Rask
Krejci
Kalus
Walter
Lucic
Lashoff
Marchand
Bodnarchuk
Sigalet
Hunwick
Hedman
Redenbach
Rabbit
Lehtonen
Versteeg
Sigalet

Ciarelli's a bright guy; he's going to have to be to build up a base comparable to what the Habs now have in place. Boston has been mismanaged for years, and are not going to be solving the problem by spending $12M on two UFAs. It will certainly make them more competitive, but Boston is lacking depth without question.


Last edited by turnbuckle*: 07-07-2006 at 11:33 AM.
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Old
07-07-2006, 11:44 AM
  #42
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Personally I am tired of hearing no signing UFA concerns...
We have a very solid team, and we werent in a major need of UFA's to begin with. with so much talent burgeoning in our minor league system (other than defense, but we are solid with a good top 8 there)
I fail to see the need to sign more players to get us higher.
We have FIVE top 2 liners IMO guaranteed. Ribeiro, Koivu, Ryder, Higgins, Kovalev.

We have FIVE guys heading in to camp who can win the FINAL top 6 role outright:
Zednik, Perezhogin, Latendresse, Kostitsyn, Bonk.

We have another guy who can surprise: Plekanec

We have quality depth players in Begin, Murray, Bonk (if he's not the #2) and many of those competing for higher roles with the club... Not to mention Downey, LaPierre, Chipchura, and Ferland...

We are building within, many of our guys are so green, that the only way for them is UP UP UP!!!

UFA's are not meant to build a club, that just stagnates the true club's potential of rising to the cream of the crop. We must depend on our own guys, which are coming close to being NHL ready players...

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