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Hart trophy shares

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Old
07-21-2009, 02:10 AM
  #26
Sadekuuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
I'm glad Brett Hull places very high in hart trophy shares, he deserves it. The guy was awesome in his prime.
That's Bobby in the top 10, not Brett

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Old
07-21-2009, 09:15 AM
  #27
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
With the current 5 place voting format, you get 10 points for a first place vote, 7 points for 2nd, 5 points for 3rd, 3 points for 4th, and 1 point for 5th.

If a player gets all the 1st place votes, he has a 100% share. A player getting all the 2nd place votes would have 70% of the points of the guy that got all the 1st place votes. A guys getting all the 3rd place votes would get 50%. And you have 30% and 10% for the 4th and 5th place votes. Total is 260%, but the most any player can get is 100%.

If a player doesn't get a 100% score then the 2nd place finisher can get above 70% by getting some of those 1st place votes.

The older 5-3-1 three place voting gives a total of 180% with 100%, 60% and 20%.

Good explanation. Thank you!

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Old
09-27-2009, 07:31 AM
  #28
nik jr
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syl apps is missing from the list.

'39: 2nd
'40: 2nd
'41: 3rd
'42: 2nd
'43: 3rd

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Old
09-27-2009, 09:01 AM
  #29
tony d
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Great work as always Hockey Outsider, thanks for sharing.

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Old
09-30-2009, 04:45 AM
  #30
EagleBelfour
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On my files, I've got Milt Schmidt finishing 1,2,4,4,5 in Hart voting while you have him 1,2,4. Still, amazing work as usual. Guess I've missed it last year.

BTW, would be nice to see all those articles regroup together.

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Old
07-01-2010, 11:51 PM
  #31
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Hart trophy voting record

Updated through 2010 season

Player First Second Third Fourth Fifth Total
Gordie Howe 6 1 5 2 1 15
Wayne Gretzky 9 1 1 1 1 13
Jean Beliveau 2 4 1 2 0 9
Bobby Hull 2 2 4 0 1 9
Mario Lemieux 3 3 1 1 0 8
Bobby Orr 3 0 4 1 0 8
Jaromir Jagr 1 4 1 1 0 7
Martin Brodeur 0 0 3 2 2 7
Guy Lafleur 2 1 1 1 1 6
Bobby Clarke 3 1 0 1 0 5
Phil Esposito 2 2 1 0 0 5
Dominik Hasek 2 1 2 0 0 5
Stan Mikita 2 1 0 1 1 5
Bryan Trottier 1 2 1 0 1 5
Maurice Richard 1 1 3 0 0 5
Ray Bourque 0 2 0 1 2 5
Doug Harvey 0 1 1 0 3 5
Glenn Hall 0 0 1 2 2 5
Andy Bathgate 1 1 1 0 1 4
Ted Kennedy 1 1 0 0 2 4
Red Kelly 0 1 1 2 0 4
Patrick Roy 0 1 1 1 1 4
Terry Sawchuk 0 0 1 2 1 4
Alexander Ovechkin 2 1 0 0 0 3
Mark Messier 2 1 0 0 0 3
Jarome Iginla 1 1 1 0 0 3
Milt Schmidt 1 1 0 1 0 3
Brett Hull 1 0 2 0 0 3
Joe Thornton 1 0 0 1 1 3
Marcel Dionne 0 1 2 0 0 3
Tony Esposito 0 1 1 0 1 3
Ken Dryden 0 1 0 2 0 3
Rod Langway 0 1 0 2 0 3
Doug Gilmour 0 1 0 1 1 3
Markus Naslund 0 1 0 0 2 3
Teemu Selanne 0 0 1 0 2 3
Brad Park 0 0 0 0 3 3

The only change to this list in 2010 is Alexander Ovechkin.

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Old
06-22-2011, 11:11 PM
  #32
Hockey Outsider
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Update for 2011: no changes to the table in the post immediately above.

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Old
06-21-2012, 07:21 PM
  #33
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Hart trophy voting record

Updated through 2012 season

Player First Second Third Fourth Fifth Total
Gordie Howe 6 1 5 2 1 15
Wayne Gretzky 9 1 1 1 1 13
Jean Beliveau 2 4 1 2 0 9
Bobby Hull 2 2 4 0 1 9
Mario Lemieux 3 3 1 1 0 8
Bobby Orr 3 0 4 1 0 8
Jaromir Jagr 1 4 1 1 0 7
Martin Brodeur 0 0 3 2 2 7
Guy Lafleur 2 1 1 1 1 6
Bobby Clarke 3 1 0 1 0 5
Phil Esposito 2 2 1 0 0 5
Dominik Hasek 2 1 2 0 0 5
Stan Mikita 2 1 0 1 1 5
Bryan Trottier 1 2 1 0 1 5
Maurice Richard 1 1 3 0 0 5
Ray Bourque 0 2 0 1 2 5
Doug Harvey 0 1 1 0 3 5
Glenn Hall 0 0 1 2 2 5
Andy Bathgate 1 1 1 0 1 4
Ted Kennedy 1 1 0 0 2 4
Red Kelly 0 1 1 2 0 4
Patrick Roy 0 1 1 1 1 4
Terry Sawchuk 0 0 1 2 1 4
Alexander Ovechkin 2 1 0 0 0 3
Mark Messier 2 1 0 0 0 3
Evgeni Malkin 1 2 0 0 0 3
Jarome Iginla 1 1 1 0 0 3
Milt Schmidt 1 1 0 1 0 3
Brett Hull 1 0 2 0 0 3
Joe Thornton 1 0 0 1 1 3
Marcel Dionne 0 1 2 0 0 3
Tony Esposito 0 1 1 0 1 3
Ken Dryden 0 1 0 2 0 3
Rod Langway 0 1 0 2 0 3
Doug Gilmour 0 1 0 1 1 3
Markus Naslund 0 1 0 0 2 3
Teemu Selanne 0 0 1 0 2 3
Brad Park 0 0 0 0 3 3

We have one new addition the list. Malkin won the Hart trophy and was 2nd to Ovechkin both in 2008 and 2009.

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Old
02-11-2013, 03:46 AM
  #34
unknown33
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Could you re-upload the file please?
Neither link does work.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:29 AM
  #35
Psycho Papa Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Awesome work as usual HO. You always combine your analyses with really great discussion that's always fun to read.

As for the defensemen not being represented on the list, it seems as though the introduction of the Norris really hurt the ability of defensemen to gain Hart nominations. From what I've seen it's a travesty that Lidstrom hasn't had more consideration for the Hart, and Potvin, as (arguably) the most important player on a dynasty team, probably deserved a better outcome as well. Even though Orr stands out in terms of peak share, the fact that he still 'only' sixth shows (to me) that the Hart is biased against defensemen.

I'm surprised to see Jagr in fourth place, I definitely was not expecting that. A couple other names that stand out are Bathgate and Abel. As you mentioned, winning the trophy adds a fair bit to your record in just one season, but it seems that they both get strength from other years as well.
Potvin didn't really have his best regular seasons during the dynasty years. A travesty that he never won a Conn though.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:43 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Potvin didn't really have his best regular seasons during the dynasty years. A travesty that he never won a Conn though.
Travesty is a bit strong of a word. He just didn't happen to have a career playoff year during the run. But if you look at the most important piece of the whole dynasty, Potvin is right there. Lemaire is similar for the Canadiens late 70's run. Older than most of his teammates (like Potvin), he was a very important piece of that team, but never won a CS.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:49 AM
  #37
Psycho Papa Joe
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Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Travesty is a bit strong of a word. He just didn't happen to have a career playoff year during the run. But if you look at the most important piece of the whole dynasty, Potvin is right there. Lemaire is similar for the Canadiens late 70's run. Older than most of his teammates (like Potvin), he was a very important piece of that team, but never won a CS.
Lemaire probably should have won in 79. Potvin in 81.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:46 PM
  #38
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Hart trophy voting record
*Updated through 2014 season
* Will have to double check but I believe this is 1947 - present only (cut-off looks reasonable as it includes Richard but not Shore)

Player First Second Third Fourth Fifth Total
Gordie Howe 6 1 5 2 1 15
Wayne Gretzky 9 1 1 1 1 13
Jean Beliveau 2 4 1 2 0 9
Bobby Hull 2 2 4 0 1 9
Mario Lemieux 3 3 1 1 0 8
Bobby Orr 3 0 4 1 0 8
Jaromir Jagr 1 4 1 1 0 7
Martin Brodeur 0 0 3 2 2 7
Guy Lafleur 2 1 1 1 1 6
Bobby Clarke 3 1 0 1 0 5
Phil Esposito 2 2 1 0 0 5
Dominik Hasek 2 1 2 0 0 5
Stan Mikita 2 1 0 1 1 5
Bryan Trottier 1 2 1 0 1 5
Maurice Richard 1 1 3 0 0 5
Ray Bourque 0 2 0 1 2 5
Patrick Roy 0 1 1 1 2 5
Doug Harvey 0 1 1 0 3 5
Glenn Hall 0 0 1 2 2 5
Alexander Ovechkin 3 1 0 0 0 4
Sidney Crosby 2 1 1 0 0 4
Andy Bathgate 1 1 1 0 1 4
Ted Kennedy 1 1 0 0 2 4
Red Kelly 0 1 1 2 0 4
Terry Sawchuk 0 0 1 2 1 4
Mark Messier 2 1 0 0 0 3
Evgeni Malkin 1 2 0 0 0 3
Jarome Iginla 1 1 1 0 0 3
Milt Schmidt 1 1 0 1 0 3
Brett Hull 1 0 2 0 0 3
Joe Thornton 1 0 0 1 1 3
Marcel Dionne 0 1 2 0 0 3
Tony Esposito 0 1 1 0 1 3
Ken Dryden 0 1 0 2 0 3
Rod Langway 0 1 0 2 0 3
Doug Gilmour 0 1 0 1 1 3
Markus Naslund 0 1 0 0 2 3
Teemu Selanne 0 0 1 0 2 3
Brad Park 0 0 0 0 3 3

Crosby continues to move up in 2014.


Last edited by Hockey Outsider: 07-17-2014 at 05:41 PM.
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Old
06-16-2013, 02:02 PM
  #39
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Hart trophy - normalized career votes
1947 to 2014 - top fifty

RankPlayerVotes
1 Wayne Gretzky 901
2 Gordie Howe 605
3 Mario Lemieux 486
4 Jaromir Jagr 399
5 Bobby Orr 349
6 Alexander Ovechkin 326
7 Sidney Crosby 306
8 Bobby Hull 293
9 Dominik Hasek 289
10 Jean Beliveau 283
11 Bobby Clarke 276
12 Phil Esposito 264
13 Mark Messier 223
14 Maurice Richard 222
15 Evgeni Malkin 207
16 Guy Lafleur 205
17 Martin Brodeur 200
18 Stan Mikita 195
19 Bryan Trottier 177
20 Andy Bathgate 162
21 Milt Schmidt 151
22 Eric Lindros 143
23 Jarome Iginla 141
24 Joe Thornton 137
25 Ray Bourque 134
26 Joe Sakic 131
27 Glenn Hall 126
28 Brett Hull 124
29 Martin St. Louis 124
30 Ted Kennedy 119
31 Red Kelly 111
32 Peter Forsberg 103
33 Tony Esposito 103
34 Sid Abel 98
35 Patrick Roy 96
36 Marcel Dionne 96
37 Mike Liut 94
38 Sergei Fedorov 89
39 Markus Naslund 85
40 Teemu Selanne 85
41 Doug Harvey 82
42 Corey Perry 81
43 Terry Sawchuk 79
44 Bill Durnan 78
45 Elmer Lach 75
46 Roberto Luongo 75
47 Henrik Sedin 74
48 Al Rollins 74
49 Chris Pronger 73
50 Chuck Rayner 72

Here are the fifty players with the most normalized Hart trophy votes over the course of their careers. "Normalized" means that a unanimous vote is worth 100 points in each year.

Keep in mind that there are several limitations to this data. First, Hart voting is affected by quality of competition (many players who peaked during the prime of Gretzky/Lemieux have lower scores than they probably deserved). Second, Hart votes are skewed easily by big seasons. Third, Hart voting tends to heavily favour forwards. Fourth, obviously Hart voting ignores the playoffs.

With a dominating victory in 2014, Crosby moves into 7th place, just behind Ovechkin.


Last edited by Hockey Outsider: 06-25-2014 at 11:46 PM.
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Old
06-17-2013, 04:34 PM
  #40
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Great work, HO.

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Old
06-25-2014, 11:43 PM
  #41
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Updated for 2014.

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Old
06-26-2014, 08:48 PM
  #42
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People underappreciate Crosby and Ovechkin (and Malkin). The day they retire will be the day public opinion shifts greatly. People don't realize we're seeing some of the absolute greats of all-time.

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Old
06-26-2014, 09:23 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidGenoMario View Post
People underappreciate Crosby and Ovechkin (and Malkin). The day they retire will be the day public opinion shifts greatly. People don't realize we're seeing some of the absolute greats of all-time.
Yeah, 24 major trophies between the 3 in 9 years in the league (not even including Calders).

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Old
06-26-2014, 09:58 PM
  #44
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I'm surprised to see Federov so low on that list.

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Old
06-26-2014, 10:26 PM
  #45
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It was tough for many 1990's stars to earn multiple strong Hart trophy finishes (due to a historically large number of goalies ranking highly in the voting, and also due to the dominance of Lemieux and Jagr).

Fedorov only placed in the top five in Hart voting twice. Sakic, Forsberg, Oates, Bure and Kariya did so once each. Modano, Francis, Shanahan and Recchi never did.

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Old
06-26-2014, 10:26 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidGenoMario View Post
People underappreciate Crosby and Ovechkin (and Malkin). The day they retire will be the day public opinion shifts greatly. People don't realize we're seeing some of the absolute greats of all-time.
This coming from someone who claims Dominik Hasek doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame?

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Old
06-26-2014, 10:47 PM
  #47
Kranix
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Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
It was tough for many 1990's stars to earn multiple strong Hart trophy finishes (due to a historically large number of goalies ranking highly in the voting, and also due to the dominance of Lemieux and Jagr).

Fedorov only placed in the top five in Hart voting twice. Sakic, Forsberg, Oates, Bure and Kariya did so once each. Modano, Francis, Shanahan and Recchi never did.
I would have guessed him nearer Iginla and Lindros...just from my memories, the stats can't lie though.

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Old
06-27-2014, 12:26 AM
  #48
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Iginla peaked in the early 2000s, when the quality of elite forwards was relatively low. That explains how he (and Naslund) have better Hart voting records than Fedorov, Sakic, etc. who peaked earlier and against tougher competition.

Lindros, like Fedorov, was only in the top five twice (won in 1995, third behind Lemieux and Messier in 1996). Interesting observation - Lindros missed less than 10 games just three times in his career and was a Hart finalist two of those years (and a shell of his former self in 2003).

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Old
06-27-2014, 02:34 AM
  #49
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When Fedorov was 2nd in scoring he won the Hart handily. When he was 9th in scoring he finished 5th. His next best finish was 12th in 2003, helping him to finish 9th in Hart voting, and I don't think he was otherwise in the top 20 in scoring. It's not surprising a guy like that didn't do better in Hart voting.

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Old
06-28-2014, 03:39 AM
  #50
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brodeur 7 times in top 5 hart voting, pretty amazing.

13 times in top 5 for vezina.

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