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02-09-2013, 10:27 AM
  #51
Prussian_Blue
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Originally Posted by Memento View Post
I'm sorry, but Nurse has way more potential in almost every aspect of the game than Edmundson. Seriously, the only thing that Edmundson has Nurse beat at is his shot. Still, it's a moot point right now; he's probably going top fifteen at the rate he's playing. We won't get him.
Edmundson is more physical and just as good, if not better, defensively.

I won't argue that Nurse has great long-term potential, and that is especially so where his offense is concerned, but all I said was that Edmundson was a similar player... I did not say that they were entirely comparable.

And, since you make the argument that Nurse likely goes top fifteen and "we" won't get him, it makes little sense to argue over whether or not he's "better," or if he has more long-term potential, than Edmundson.

I would love it if the Blues were able to add Darnell Nurse to their prospect stable in June... but I don't see the selection of a defenseman with the first-round pick as being the highest priority, no matter how good he is or how much long-term potential that defenseman may have.

There are forward issues in the system, particularly at C and LW, that in my opinion need to be addressed ahead of defense.

I know, I know... "best player available" and all that. But by your own admission, Nurse will probably not be available anyway when the Blues pick. And if through some stroke of luck he is available, I would still consider a big C/LW who is well along in his development curve to be the best player available for the Blues in their current -- and their near-term -- organizational situation.

Just my opinion, based on some amount of study of the Blues' organizational position at this time.

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02-09-2013, 11:41 AM
  #52
Daley Tarasenkshow
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Edmundson is more physical and just as good, if not better, defensively.

I won't argue that Nurse has great long-term potential, and that is especially so where his offense is concerned, but all I said was that Edmundson was a similar player... I did not say that they were entirely comparable.

And, since you make the argument that Nurse likely goes top fifteen and "we" won't get him, it makes little sense to argue over whether or not he's "better," or if he has more long-term potential, than Edmundson.

I would love it if the Blues were able to add Darnell Nurse to their prospect stable in June... but I don't see the selection of a defenseman with the first-round pick as being the highest priority, no matter how good he is or how much long-term potential that defenseman may have.

There are forward issues in the system, particularly at C and LW, that in my opinion need to be addressed ahead of defense.

I know, I know... "best player available" and all that. But by your own admission, Nurse will probably not be available anyway when the Blues pick. And if through some stroke of luck he is available, I would still consider a big C/LW who is well along in his development curve to be the best player available for the Blues in their current -- and their near-term -- organizational situation.

Just my opinion, based on some amount of study of the Blues' organizational position at this time.
I would have to politely disagree with the statement in bold. I Don't see how the blues need another big C/LW, the organization is full of them with players like Gardiner, Jaskin, Beach, etc. I think the blues should pick a forward, but one that is a playmaking center.

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02-09-2013, 02:38 PM
  #53
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I don't see Gardiner having NHL potential. The Blues organization fouls use a center and a top 4 LD.

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02-09-2013, 05:18 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by reavesthemaniac View Post
I would have to politely disagree with the statement in bold. I Don't see how the blues need another big C/LW, the organization is full of them with players like Gardiner, Jaskin, Beach, etc. I think the blues should pick a forward, but one that is a playmaking center.
Jaskin and Beach are both RW's.

Gardiner may well be a late bloomer; he didn't do much as a freshman at Minnesota, or last year with Dubuque in the USHL, but he's a leader on the ice and off for Penn State in their first year of Division I competition.

He has an NHL frame at 6' 3, and has put on about 15 pounds since being drafted, going from 176 to 190. If he can hit the weight room at Penn State for the next couple of years, by the time he's a senior he'll be in the 205-pound range, and if he continues to exhibit the kind of playmaking ability he's shown with PSU, one would think that the goal-scoring touch will return that got him 41 goals in just 66 HS games.

He picked up a goal last night in Penn State's 4-0 win over Alabama-Huntsville, his third of the year to go along with a team-leading 16 assist for 19 points in 24 games.

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-....html#TEAM.IND

Gardiner will be 21 this May, so will be 23 when his senior season at PSU is done. By HF standards, he will still have two full years of "prospect" status left to hone his game in Peoria.

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02-09-2013, 05:41 PM
  #55
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Jaškin has primarily played LW this season; not sure if that will continue when he steps back up to the pro's but he has said he feels equally comfortable on either wing.

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02-10-2013, 09:49 PM
  #56
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honestly, whoever we get, I want to see a center with second line (Rychel, Lazar, Domi) capabilities get drafted in the first round, a solid top six with top four potential defenseman (Eric Roy, Shea Theodore) with Ottawa's pick, and then a guy like Klimchuk with our second second-round pick, then we go for bottom six players with the rest of our picks

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02-10-2013, 11:05 PM
  #57
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Prussian, do you really consider Gardiner a prospect?

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02-11-2013, 05:20 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Jaskin and Beach are both RW's.

Gardiner may well be a late bloomer; he didn't do much as a freshman at Minnesota, or last year with Dubuque in the USHL, but he's a leader on the ice and off for Penn State in their first year of Division I competition.

He has an NHL frame at 6' 3, and has put on about 15 pounds since being drafted, going from 176 to 190. If he can hit the weight room at Penn State for the next couple of years, by the time he's a senior he'll be in the 205-pound range, and if he continues to exhibit the kind of playmaking ability he's shown with PSU, one would think that the goal-scoring touch will return that got him 41 goals in just 66 HS games.

He picked up a goal last night in Penn State's 4-0 win over Alabama-Huntsville, his third of the year to go along with a team-leading 16 assist for 19 points in 24 games.

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-....html#TEAM.IND

Gardiner will be 21 this May, so will be 23 when his senior season at PSU is done. By HF standards, he will still have two full years of "prospect" status left to hone his game in Peoria.
What he said... We may not want to scratch him off just yet. He is having a very good sophomore year. Good size and seems to be a good playmaker. He at least deserves a look at the next level I think.

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02-11-2013, 05:48 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Edmundson is more physical and just as good, if not better, defensively.

I won't argue that Nurse has great long-term potential, and that is especially so where his offense is concerned, but all I said was that Edmundson was a similar player... I did not say that they were entirely comparable.

And, since you make the argument that Nurse likely goes top fifteen and "we" won't get him, it makes little sense to argue over whether or not he's "better," or if he has more long-term potential, than Edmundson.

I would love it if the Blues were able to add Darnell Nurse to their prospect stable in June... but I don't see the selection of a defenseman with the first-round pick as being the highest priority, no matter how good he is or how much long-term potential that defenseman may have.

There are forward issues in the system, particularly at C and LW, that in my opinion need to be addressed ahead of defense.

I know, I know... "best player available" and all that. But by your own admission, Nurse will probably not be available anyway when the Blues pick. And if through some stroke of luck he is available, I would still consider a big C/LW who is well along in his development curve to be the best player available for the Blues in their current -- and their near-term -- organizational situation.

Just my opinion, based on some amount of study of the Blues' organizational position at this time.
Fair enough. I can respect your opinions; I won't argue that you put in a lot of research into your posts. I feel that a physical number two defenseman is a major need; a long-term partner for Pietrangelo would benefit the team in many different ways.

If there's a good playmaking center available (Frederic Gauthier looks intriguing), then yes, I'd be very happy with the selection; the organization has literally no center depth. But if, for some inexplicable reason, Nurse drops to us, I don't see how we don't take him unless there's a much better prospect on the board. Left wing doesn't concern me as much, but if a winger is the best player available, I'd be happy with that selection as well. Drafting the best player available is all I really care about when it comes to drafts in any sport. You find a spot for those players; worst-case scenario is that you can't find one and end up trading them for assets.

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02-11-2013, 05:59 AM
  #60
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Penn St lists him as a freshman. Maybe his time as a Gopher didn't count. He's definitely a long shot. This is on the college hockey news sight. I assumed they got their info directly from the colleges. Thanks


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02-11-2013, 06:54 AM
  #61
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Penn St lists him as a freshman. Maybe his time as a Gopher didn't count. He's definitely a long shot.
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-...er_799059.html

They mention him as a freshman at Minnesota and Sophmore at Penn State here...I don't know if he was eligible to redshirt or not.

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02-11-2013, 08:25 AM
  #62
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this alexander wennberg guys seems like the exact type of center we've been looking for. http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9841 I also like that Ryan Kujawinski in the second round.

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02-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #63
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The blues only have 1 first round pick correct?

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02-11-2013, 11:34 AM
  #64
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The blues only have 1 first round pick correct?
At present, the Blues have one 1st, two 2nds (ours and Ottawa's), one 3rd, two 4ths (ours and Tampa Bay's), one 5th, one 6th, and one 7th round draft picks.

Ottawa's second is via the Ben Bishop trade.

Tampa Bay's fourth is via the B.J. Crombeen trade.

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02-11-2013, 12:02 PM
  #65
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this alexander wennberg guys seems like the exact type of center we've been looking for. http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9841 I also like that Ryan Kujawinski in the second round.
He really projects as a left winger at NHL level.

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02-11-2013, 01:03 PM
  #66
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Prussian, do you really consider Gardiner a prospect?
Yes, I do.

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03-10-2013, 05:15 AM
  #67
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Do you think the Blues could move up in the draft by trading their 1st, Ottawa's 2nd and possibly a prospect like Rattie or Jaskin top try to draft a center?

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03-10-2013, 05:49 AM
  #68
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Do you think the Blues could move up in the draft by trading their 1st, Ottawa's 2nd and possibly a prospect like Rattie or Jaskin top try to draft a center?
It's safe to say the Blues aren't winning their division. Thus, if they make the playoffs their pick will be in the 15-24 range UNLESS they make the conference finals or Cup finals. We're talking about a draft day trade so we'd know our spot. At the moment, the Blues would have the 19th overall pick, and Ottawa's 2d would be 51st overall. (It does not appear that the Spezza/Karlsson injuries have affected them in the slightest.)

So what's the value of the difference between #19 overall and whatever overall pick they'd need to draft this targeted center? That's the question. Moving up 2-5 spots is much more doable (and wouldn't require a Rattie/Jaskin payment). Moving up into the top 5 is going to require quite a bit. It also is very specific to the team with whom you want to trade. They have to be ok at center but needy on the wings if Rattie or Jaskin is part of the deal. Since this is purely a futures-for-futures suggestion, the target team might think, "you know what, let's take the sure thing elite prospect versus two very good prospects plus one good prospect." Kind of like how offering three first rounders to the Hawks for Kane was rejected, not because those three first rounders didn't have value (Perron, Halak and Cole were what the picks turned into), but because when you're dealing with prospects there's always uncertainty.

For this reason, Jarmo and JD in Columbus would probably rather have the quality over the quantity, since we know that in the Blues' rebuilding mode they would have preferred Kane to all those picks. Edmonton doesn't need any wingers, they need a second center after RNH (and move Gagner to 3C). Buffalo may or may not feel good about the center positon after last year's draft. Aside from Hodgson, nobody at center is very good for them right now. If Philly falls farther, maybe they don't want to draft a center (they have a bunch). Florida might feel ok at center. Who knows what Colorado will do given their center situation? Yet those teams who don't need a center do need D. Florida needs D, Colorado needs D, Philly needs D (though they never seem to draft 'em high), Edmonton badly needs D. Washington has Backstrom now and Kuznetsov someday. Ribiero may or may not be there and that might affect things. All of this is just to say it's very specific to what position you feel you need to reach and the specific needs of the crappy teams who wind up drafting that high.

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03-10-2013, 06:17 AM
  #69
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Do you think the Blues could move up in the draft by trading their 1st, Ottawa's 2nd and possibly a prospect like Rattie or Jaskin top try to draft a center?
Very unlikely to see that package simply because we'd want it to take us higher than would probably be possible.

Whether or not we try to move up depends on where we'll be picking and what our draft board looks like. When it comes to centres, the question will be how much we like Frederik Gauthier, because he is really the only guy that really projects to be a C at this level that is in the realistic range we could move into.

I think Jaškin is probably viewed as pretty close to untouchable within the Blues. His skillset should transition well to the NHL, total bust factor is small and wingers like him are very much in demand around the League.

Rattie is much more of a question mark. We might view him even higher than Jaškin, or we might have worries about his ability to make the step up to the NHL. I wouldn't be surprised to see us move Rattie in an almost identical situation to how we moved Rundblad... a team picking in the 14-18 range has playoff aspirations next season and it is an attractive option to pick up a player 2 years further along in development.

If we could find a way to pick up Gauthier and Nichushkin/Zykov at this draft, I'd be delighted. Hopefully the fact Nichushkin is signed in the KHL for a further 2 seasons and plays for the same team that kept Kuznetsov will put off a lot of teams.

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03-10-2013, 09:44 AM
  #70
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If we could find a way to pick up Gauthier and Nichushkin/Zykov at this draft, I'd be delighted. Hopefully the fact Nichushkin is signed in the KHL for a further 2 seasons and plays for the same team that kept Kuznetsov will put off a lot of teams.
I don't see any plausible way the Blues can get to the range they'd need to draft in, in order to select Gauthier. I see him as a probably top 5 pick, certainly a lottery pick, and the only way the Blues get into that range is to make a move that guts the depth they've built.

Nichushkin/Zykov are far more reasonable targets. Of the two, I'd prefer Zykov simply for the fact that he's already here and not locked into a contract with a KHL club.

If the Blues are going to continue to draft Europeans, they need to draft Europeans who are already making themselves familiar with the North American style of play and who will step right into the NHL after a year or two in major junior or college.

No more of this wasting high picks on drafting Soderbergs and Barulins who refuse to cross the pond and refuse to play in the AHL.

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03-10-2013, 10:34 AM
  #71
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I don't see any plausible way the Blues can get to the range they'd need to draft in, in order to select Gauthier. I see him as a probably top 5 pick, certainly a lottery pick, and the only way the Blues get into that range is to make a move that guts the depth they've built.

Nichushkin/Zykov are far more reasonable targets. Of the two, I'd prefer Zykov simply for the fact that he's already here and not locked into a contract with a KHL club.

If the Blues are going to continue to draft Europeans, they need to draft Europeans who are already making themselves familiar with the North American style of play and who will step right into the NHL after a year or two in major junior or college.

No more of this wasting high picks on drafting Soderbergs and Barulins who refuse to cross the pond and refuse to play in the AHL.
Right now Gauthier is an 8-15 range pick. He might well go 8th/9th/10th, but if he doesn't we should be doing everything we can to move up. Unless something pretty significant happens between now and the draft, he won't be top 7. MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan and Shinkaruk are all pretty comfortably ahead of him at this point. Ristolainen, Nichushkin, Pulock, Nurse and Zadorov is probably the next group of guys he is in with.

I really don't see the issue with taking Russians these days. The quality players come over when they are good enough for the NHL, and it tends to be sooner rather than later. Kuznetsov is an exception to some degree, but he'll be over in the summer of 2014. Nichushkin has top 5 talent, and if he slips down to the middle of the round, then it is a risk well worth taking providing we like what we heard in the interview.

Of course, depending on where we are picking, moving up to get both would be a stretch. We'd likely have to give up our first, both seconds and Rattie. Won't happen, but I can hope

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03-10-2013, 10:45 AM
  #72
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Right now Gauthier is an 8-15 range pick. He might well go 8th/9th/10th, but if he doesn't we should be doing everything we can to move up. Unless something pretty significant happens between now and the draft, he won't be top 7. MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan and Shinkaruk are all pretty comfortably ahead of him at this point. Ristolainen, Nichushkin, Pulock, Nurse and Zadorov is probably the next group of guys he is in with.

I really don't see the issue with taking Russians these days. The quality players come over when they are good enough for the NHL, and it tends to be sooner rather than later. Kuznetsov is an exception to some degree, but he'll be over in the summer of 2014. Nichushkin has top 5 talent, and if he slips down to the middle of the round, then it is a risk well worth taking providing we like what we heard in the interview.

Of course, depending on where we are picking, moving up to get both would be a stretch. We'd likely have to give up our first, both seconds and Rattie. Won't happen, but I can hope
Agreed on Gauthier...I have seen some draft rankings which have him sliding into the 20's, and others where he is moving up to near 10. Who knows where he will go, but I would probably pass out if he is in the top 5.

Also agreed on Nichushkin...if, for some reason, he is available when we pick, I would be all for getting him. This is where having Tarasenko should be a great thing, although Capitals fans thought the exact same thing with Ovechkin and Kuznetsov (they were certain that Kuznetsov would be there by this year b/c of Ovechkin). Nonetheless, Nichushkin appears to be getting better reviews (at least ranking-wise) than Tarasenko was getting, plus he's a centerman that we need (and I'm sure we'll still need in 2-3 years when he comes to the NHL). In short, I'm on the Nichushkin train.

Wennberg could be available when we pick, and he appears to be a great fit as well.

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03-10-2013, 11:20 AM
  #73
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Agreed on Gauthier...I have seen some draft rankings which have him sliding into the 20's, and others where he is moving up to near 10. Who knows where he will go, but I would probably pass out if he is in the top 5.

Also agreed on Nichushkin...if, for some reason, he is available when we pick, I would be all for getting him. This is where having Tarasenko should be a great thing, although Capitals fans thought the exact same thing with Ovechkin and Kuznetsov (they were certain that Kuznetsov would be there by this year b/c of Ovechkin). Nonetheless, Nichushkin appears to be getting better reviews (at least ranking-wise) than Tarasenko was getting, plus he's a centerman that we need (and I'm sure we'll still need in 2-3 years when he comes to the NHL). In short, I'm on the Nichushkin train.

Wennberg could be available when we pick, and he appears to be a great fit as well.
Nichushkin is a winger now. Wennberg still plays some centre, but he also realistically projects as a winger in the NHL. If Gauthier does go top 10, then there aren't too many centres left. Curtis Lazar and JT Compher will both likely be in the 20-35 range, Petan as well, but again he likely projects as a winger.

The second and third rounds might be a better place to pick up a centre though. Guys like John Hayden (2nd round) and Marko Daňo (3rd) could well be better value pick ups.

We always say it though, pick the best player available. The end of next season and we might be moving a winger for futures in order to create space for Jaškin/Rattie... that is a time we could look to address any areas of weakness within our set-up.

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03-10-2013, 11:45 AM
  #74
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Nichushkin is a winger now. Wennberg still plays some centre, but he also realistically projects as a winger in the NHL. If Gauthier does go top 10, then there aren't too many centres left. Curtis Lazar and JT Compher will both likely be in the 20-35 range, Petan as well, but again he likely projects as a winger.

The second and third rounds might be a better place to pick up a centre though. Guys like John Hayden (2nd round) and Marko Daňo (3rd) could well be better value pick ups.

We always say it though, pick the best player available. The end of next season and we might be moving a winger for futures in order to create space for Jaškin/Rattie... that is a time we could look to address any areas of weakness within our set-up.
Well dang, I thought Nichushkin was primarily a center. Is it just me, or do a lot of players/prospects start out as centers but move to wing?

I'm with you on BPA...I was just thinking about how nice it would be if our BPA was a center. Should be an interesting draft, especially since the whole thing will be done in one day. I wonder how long the 1st round will take (as long as previous drafts? I kind of hope so, as I like the analysis of each pick).

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03-10-2013, 03:05 PM
  #75
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I just figured it would be something to look at seeing how strong the center position is this draft and how weak we are at center not only on the Blues roster but down the pipeline as well. We are stacked on wingers so what will drafting more wingers do for us? What happens if Jaskin and Rattie are both clearly NHL ready in 2-3 years and if we keep our roster the same as it is now, where do they fit in?

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