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Blues Trade Proposals Part 3

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:09 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
We've seen McDonald-Backes-Oshie and Steen-Backes-Oshie plenty to discuss why each line is effective. Thanks for stopping by.
Not to the extent that you were. One of the things I've learned from playing hockey all these years is that you can try to rationalize why certain players will perform well together, but when you put those things into practice, it just doesn't work. On the other hand, sometimes when you put random people together, they somehow form some pretty good chemistry. You can't over analyze line combinations and expect them to work out the way you think they will.

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02-10-2013, 10:14 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
Not to the extent that you were. One of the things I've learned from playing hockey all these years is that you can try to rationalize why certain players will perform well together, but when you put those things into practice, it just doesn't work. On the other hand, sometimes when you put random people together, they somehow form some pretty good chemistry. You can't over analyze line combinations and expect them to work out the way you think they will.
Just out of curiosity how long have you been closely watching the Blues?

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02-10-2013, 10:18 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
Not to the extent that you were. One of the things I've learned from playing hockey all these years is that you can try to rationalize why certain players will perform well together, but when you put those things into practice, it just doesn't work. On the other hand, sometimes when you put random people together, they somehow form some pretty good chemistry. You can't over analyze line combinations and expect them to work out the way you think they will.
Yes, we have seen those lines together long enough. The Steen-Backes-Oshie line was our best line last season, and when McDonald was with Backes and Oshie, they were always productive. Backes also prefers someone like McDonald and Steen who just keep skating forward, and not someone like Perron who likes to pull up and stop because he is on his off-wing.

Those are all known facts and have nothing to do with any hypothetical trade.

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02-10-2013, 10:21 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
Not to the extent that you were. One of the things I've learned from playing hockey all these years is that you can try to rationalize why certain players will perform well together, but when you put those things into practice, it just doesn't work. On the other hand, sometimes when you put random people together, they somehow form some pretty good chemistry. You can't over analyze line combinations and expect them to work out the way you think they will.
I've played hockey my whole life AAA, Central States and a little of AA and I absolutely agree with you on that. I typically liked playing with guys who on the bench or in the locker room agreed and thought the same kinda things i thought about the game not just putting a sniper, playmaker and pwf on the same line and thinking that just because there different types of players they will have impeccable cohesion.

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02-10-2013, 10:24 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
Not to the extent that you were. One of the things I've learned from playing hockey all these years is that you can try to rationalize why certain players will perform well together, but when you put those things into practice, it just doesn't work. On the other hand, sometimes when you put random people together, they somehow form some pretty good chemistry. You can't over analyze line combinations and expect them to work out the way you think they will.
"Not to the extent?" You mean the extent of the full three sentences I used?

I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're a new fan who hasn't seen each of those line combos play extensively, but we're not talking about some hypothetical line combo here. We're talking about observations based on many, many shifts together.

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02-10-2013, 10:26 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by STLBLUES44 View Post
I've played hockey my whole life AAA, Central States and a little of AA and I absolutely agree with you on that. I typically liked playing with guys who on the bench or in the locker room agreed and thought the same kinda things i thought about the game not just putting a sniper, playmaker and pwf on the same line and thinking that just because there different types of players they will have impeccable cohesion.
Exactly. I see so many people on hfboards who have probably never played competitive ice hockey try to reason why certain people would play well together. Most of the time, that doesn't work out. The few times it does work is due to just overall skill level opposed to individual characteristics.

By the way, did you play central states in st. louis? if so, did you play at chesterfield or affton?

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02-10-2013, 10:30 PM
  #682
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Just out of curiosity how long have you been closely watching the Blues?
For so long, I couldn't give you an accurate number. I started watching when I was about 5 or 6, and followed more closely some seasons and other seasons, I had my own hockey to focus on so I couldn't watch as many games. I was watching older avalanche highlights the other day, and I remember how much I was afraid the blues would match up against Sakic and Roy in the playoffs because they were just so good. Nowadays, the Avs don't scare me at all.

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02-10-2013, 10:33 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
"Not to the extent?" You mean the extent of the full three sentences I used?

I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're a new fan who hasn't seen each of those line combos play extensively, but we're not talking about some hypothetical line combo here. We're talking about observations based on many, many shifts together.
Go ahead. You can assume whatever you want. I'm not going to stop you. Another thing I should have added is that previous chemistry often times doesn't come back.

Can I ask you if you have ever played competitive hockey before? Just out of curiosity.

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02-10-2013, 10:36 PM
  #684
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And let the argument to just argue begin...

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02-10-2013, 10:58 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
Go ahead. You can assume whatever you want. I'm not going to stop you. Another thing I should have added is that previous chemistry often times doesn't come back.

Can I ask you if you have ever played competitive hockey before? Just out of curiosity.
I have learned from this ridiculous little exchange that if I had played more competitive hockey, I could have accrued the following wisdom:

a) "previous chemistry often times doesn't come back"; and
b) sometimes putting random people together works and sometimes it doesn't.

Out of curiosity, how many years of competitive play did it take for you to learn this stuff? If Confuscious ever played hockey I bet he'd have made observations like those.

Like I said before when we were talking about the relative effectiveness of Blues lines that we've observed many times, thanks for stopping by.

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02-10-2013, 11:11 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
Exactly. I see so many people on hfboards who have probably never played competitive ice hockey try to reason why certain people would play well together. Most of the time, that doesn't work out. The few times it does work is due to just overall skill level opposed to individual characteristics.

By the way, did you play central states in st. louis? if so, did you play at chesterfield or affton?
chesterfield

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02-10-2013, 11:13 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
I have learned from this ridiculous little exchange that if I had played more competitive hockey, I could have accrued the following wisdom:

a) "previous chemistry often times doesn't come back"; and
b) sometimes putting random people together works and sometimes it doesn't.

Out of curiosity, how many years of competitive play did it take for you to learn this stuff? If Confuscious ever played hockey I bet he'd have made observations like those.

Like I said before when we were talking about the relative effectiveness of Blues lines that we've observed many times, thanks for stopping by.
so your saying you never played high level competitive hockey?

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02-10-2013, 11:22 PM
  #688
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MOD Note: This is a trade thread not a place to argue for the sake of arguing. Keep on topic!

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02-10-2013, 11:29 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by STLBLUES44 View Post
so your saying you never played high level competitive hockey?
Haha yeah, I think so. That's kind of ironic.

Also, you must know or at least heard of Jon Rogger from Central States then before he left to coach the Green Bay Gamblers. He was my coach the year before he took the offer.

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02-11-2013, 12:01 AM
  #690
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Since when did playing competitive hockey mean anything? Try and find playing stats for both Ken Hitchcock and Doug Armstrong.

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02-11-2013, 12:35 AM
  #691
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I'll trade this bickering for a W tomorrow night against Los Angeles, how's that sound?

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02-11-2013, 12:38 AM
  #692
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I'll trade this bickering for a W tomorrow night against Los Angeles, how's that sound?
Now where's the fun in that? Why can't we win and still bicker. I'm right and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

I honestly think the boys will come out firing and they will want to destroy LA. I see a huge win.

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02-11-2013, 01:05 AM
  #693
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I don't see a huge win. Halak coming back from a groin injury I don't think will be entirely that sharp (but hopefully decent). LA will be pissed from how they lost today's game with 4 seconds left. Their record is bad, yes, but their roster can still give us problems. Going to be an interesting matchup, I'm expecting another tough game vs. them and until the Blues show me that they can get out of this funk I'm not going to feel that confident.

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02-11-2013, 01:10 AM
  #694
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When Weiss and Ribs are made available, I hope we make a strong push. The possibilities of having 3 top 6 caliber players at each forward position would be ridiculous.

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02-11-2013, 06:11 AM
  #695
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Originally Posted by OCTA8ON View Post
Not to the extent that you were. One of the things I've learned from playing hockey all these years is that you can try to rationalize why certain players will perform well together, but when you put those things into practice, it just doesn't work. On the other hand, sometimes when you put random people together, they somehow form some pretty good chemistry. You can't over analyze line combinations and expect them to work out the way you think they will.
I played plenty of competitive hockey when Castle Oaks was the only ice rink in Chesterfield and when the furniture store out off 94 in St Charles was an ice rink. So what? It doesn't make you anymore knowledgeable than the next guy. Smartest coach I ever had never even laced up a pair of skates.

With line combinations, there is no rhyme or reason. It either works or it doesn't. Perfect example....Peter Zezel and Brett Hull. You wouldn't put those two together normally. They had very good chemistry. Chuck Lefley and Derek Sanderson both had career years together. There isn't a bean counter or Sabremetric way to make line combos. Trial and error.

To stay on topic...I think we should trade Elliott to the West Coast and find out whether or not he can at least stop a beach ball.


Last edited by PerryTurnbullfan: 02-11-2013 at 06:14 AM. Reason: just because
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02-11-2013, 06:51 AM
  #696
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Oh he can stop a beach ball, he'll just leave a nice juicy rebound for a 5 year old girl to put in.

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02-11-2013, 09:33 AM
  #697
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When Weiss and Ribs are made available, I hope we make a strong push. The possibilities of having 3 top 6 caliber players at each forward position would be ridiculous.
As long as it's just a rental for the rest of this season and doesn't cost much. don't see how we could afford them after the season with the cap lowering and our needs tp resign petro, shatty, bergy, stewart, d'agostini etc.

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02-11-2013, 09:34 AM
  #698
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Oh he can stop a beach ball, he'll just leave a nice juicy rebound for a 5 year old girl to put in.
like no joke that's not even as big an exaggeration as i wish it was

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02-11-2013, 10:15 AM
  #699
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As long as it's just a rental for the rest of this season and doesn't cost much. don't see how we could afford them after the season with the cap lowering and our needs tp resign petro, shatty, bergy, stewart, d'agostini etc.
Yep. Both won't cost a ton, just picks and mid prospects. That is if they are available.

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02-11-2013, 11:38 AM
  #700
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The "Do you play hockey?" argument usually comes out when a person doesn't have a reasoned logical defense to his/her point of view. Its condescending, and frankly has little to do with having an understanding of the Blues.

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