HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Notices

10-13-1. "A bunch of donkeys on skates"

View Poll Results: What should the Caps do?
Tank and trade UFA's 1 20.00%
Tank and re-tool 4 80.00%
Trade futures to right the ship 0 0%
Stand pat, hoping they pull it together. 0 0%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #351
Stewie G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,121
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Here's a question, if they make the playoffs, how much money would you bet on them making the SCF? Or even the ECF?

There's teams having flaws and there's this. Who cares about playoffs if it's just gonna be early elimination? Cup is what matters.

Supporting an ineptly constructed team with imbecilic management just because you're from the area or whatever is the worst kind of fandom. It's why the Leafs have and will continue to be a laughingstock.
Not that I think that the team as presently constructed has the same thing in them, but how many Kings fans at around this point in the season last year felt their team was good enough to win the Cup?

I'm not sure McPhee has a Jeff Carter-like trade in him at this point, but I'd at least give them a little more time to see how things shake themselves out before completely throwing in the towel.

Stewie G is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #352
bgroban
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 1,393
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
If you're not interested in what's best for the long-term health of the team, please hand your fan card in now.
So not giving a ****/losing on purpose is best for the long-term health of the team?

Annnnnnnnd there is the reason why there are perennial bottom-feeders in sports.

bgroban is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 08:49 AM
  #353
Stewie G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,121
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
If you're not interested in what's best for the long-term health of the team, please hand your fan card in now.
Does giving up on the season already somehow automatically improve the long-term health of the team?

Stewie G is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 08:50 AM
  #354
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgroban View Post
So not giving a ****/losing on purpose is best for the long-term health of the team?

Annnnnnnnd there is the reason why there are perennial bottom-feeders in sports.
Nobody wants them to not give a ****/lose on purpose.

The best thing for the long-term health of the team would be an infusion of elite young talent at positions of need (namely defense and center, where the top of this draft is particularly strong) into the organization, management finally realizing that the current roster is really poorly constructed.

If we make a little run to be a fringe playoff team, I have no doubt we sputter out in the first two rounds, and the makeup of the team will be minimally altered.

Annnnnnnnd what the hell does what I think is best for the long-term health of the team have to do with being perennial bottom-feeders?

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 08:55 AM
  #355
Liberati0n*
Full Hammock
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,146
vCash: 50
Everyone calm down. We all know CCF is the ultimate arbiter of fan-card eligibility. He'll settle this.

Liberati0n* is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 08:56 AM
  #356
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
Does giving up on the season already somehow automatically improve the long-term health of the team?
It depends how they 'give up'.

The Caps need a top-6 scoring winger, a starting goalie, and top-4 vet defenseman who can move the puck. No way they'd be able to get all of those things without opening up other holes or destroying the organizational depth. Even if they get all those things, the playoffs are very, very unlikely given their abysmal start. They'd need to get somewhere around 54 points, which is 47 points in 36 games (a 107-point full season pace).

With that in mind, my version of giving up would be trading the pending UFAs for the best futures I could get, since you won't get any solid NHLers with term, and trading away a couple bad contracts to get some cap flexibility for next season. That puts you in a position to be very aggressive with trades and free agency this summer. Pick your spots and go for it next season.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 08:57 AM
  #357
MiSe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WE DRAFT PEOPLE. The fact remains the same and always will, unless your best players ARE your best players this team will fail.
You cannot expect the team to tank and get a number 1 draft pick each time they stumble out of the gate.

You want McPhee gone...FINE!
You want Oates gone...FINE!
You want Barkov, Mackinnon, Jones....FINE!

The team WILL not win a cup unless Nicky and Ovie are going, there simply cannot be 16 mil in dead cap space every year. So the ONLY thing to do is to root FOR the team and those players to get back to their old ways, not root for them to tank. What happens next year when we draft Jones and he's a bust, it becomes the same repetitive damn cycle every year. It's miserable to be rooting for your team to lose every game, in hopes of getting a high draft pick.

Now...if there are ten games LEFT in the season and you are close to last in the conference, you want to tank, that's up to you. You won't hear ridicule from me. The point I was making above was that they are only 12 games into the season, a shortened season yes, but there is still 75% of the season to go. Every team has their ups and downs throughout a year, SPOILER but even Chicago will lose 2-3 games in a row this year.

And to whoever's point it was about being on the backend of your fandom. This team hasn't done anything in the playoffs outside of '98. Still no cup. You can have all the talent in the world and not win the cup, but rooting against your team to even make it to the dance is poor taste.

TLDR: Its still way too early to ***** about tanking with 75% of the season remaining. You want to tank with 5-10 games left be my guest, but its still way too early in the season.

MiSe is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 08:58 AM
  #358
thejester
Registered User
 
thejester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 65
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Nobody wants them to not give a ****/lose on purpose.

The best thing for the long-term health of the team would be an infusion of elite young talent at positions of need (namely defense and center, where the top of this draft is particularly strong) into the organization, management finally realizing that the current roster is really poorly constructed.

If we make a little run to be a fringe playoff team, I have no doubt we sputter out in the first two rounds, and the makeup of the team will be minimally altered.

Annnnnnnnd what the hell does what I think is best for the long-term health of the team have to do with being perennial bottom-feeders?
Why do you think after nearly ten years in which the club's priority appears to have been stacking young talent that stacking more young talent will solve anything? And if you don't define tanking as 'Nobody wants them to not give a ****/lose on purpose', what exactly do you define tanking as?

thejester is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 08:59 AM
  #359
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
They may make the playoffs.
But as Halpysback has alluded to, they'll be lucky to make it a round..
last season the consensus here was sell at the deadline. they wont make the playoffs anyway and if they do they will be an easy dispatch in the first round.

did that happen?

the best team the caps have every had was bounced in the first round. the team that went to the finals was a 4 seed. the cup winner last season was an 8 seed.

txpd is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:02 AM
  #360
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
With that in mind, my version of giving up would be trading the pending UFAs for the best futures I could get, since you won't get any solid NHLers with term, and trading away a couple bad contracts to get some cap flexibility for next season. That puts you in a position to be very aggressive with trades and free agency this summer. Pick your spots and go for it next season.
wouldnt making the playoffs and letting the pending free agents walk after the season and dumping the bad contracts one way or the other allow for the same aggression in free agency and the trade market?

btw...who are the bad contracts to dump?

txpd is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:03 AM
  #361
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejester View Post
Why do you think after nearly ten years in which the club's priority appears to have been stacking young talent that stacking more young talent will solve anything? And if you don't define tanking as 'Nobody wants them to not give a ****/lose on purpose', what exactly do you define tanking as?
This team will tank because this team sucks. I define tanking as continuing to lose while management sells off short term assets (i.e., pending UFAs) for futures.

I think more young talent will solve something because a lot of the young talent the team has been stacking is no longer effective or no longer with the organization. I don't propose just going with youngsters as they did for the first several years Ovy was in the league. I propose using the increased organizational depth to add legitimate NHLers and change the makeup of the team.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:04 AM
  #362
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
wouldnt making the playoffs and letting the pending free agents walk after the season and dumping the bad contracts one way or the other allow for the same aggression in free agency and the trade market?
Nope, because they wouldn't have the increased organizational depth to move on the trade market, as they'd lose the pending UFAs for nothing.

And for the record, I have no problem extending Ribeiro.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:05 AM
  #363
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiSe View Post
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WE DRAFT PEOPLE. The fact remains the same and always will, unless your best players ARE your best players this team will fail.
You cannot expect the team to tank and get a number 1 draft pick each time they stumble out of the gate.

You want McPhee gone...FINE!
You want Oates gone...FINE!
You want Barkov, Mackinnon, Jones....FINE!

The team WILL not win a cup unless Nicky and Ovie are going, there simply cannot be 16 mil in dead cap space every year. So the ONLY thing to do is to root FOR the team and those players to get back to their old ways, not root for them to tank. What happens next year when we draft Jones and he's a bust, it becomes the same repetitive damn cycle every year. It's miserable to be rooting for your team to lose every game, in hopes of getting a high draft pick.

Now...if there are ten games LEFT in the season and you are close to last in the conference, you want to tank, that's up to you. You won't hear ridicule from me. The point I was making above was that they are only 12 games into the season, a shortened season yes, but there is still 75% of the season to go. Every team has their ups and downs throughout a year, SPOILER but even Chicago will lose 2-3 games in a row this year.

And to whoever's point it was about being on the backend of your fandom. This team hasn't done anything in the playoffs outside of '98. Still no cup. You can have all the talent in the world and not win the cup, but rooting against your team to even make it to the dance is poor taste.

TLDR: Its still way too early to ***** about tanking with 75% of the season remaining. You want to tank with 5-10 games left be my guest, but its still way too early in the season.
Just curious, where are your season tickets located?

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:10 AM
  #364
Stewie G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,121
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Just curious, where are your season tickets located?
I expected more from you than that.

Stewie G is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:12 AM
  #365
MiSe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
424- K 5-6...Sorry its a partial 10-game I work as a sorry video game dev and can't afford FULL tix.

But if you want in Beta for Elder Scrolls Online, hit me up, as long as you're not rooting against this team.

You and TXPD were always sources of inspiration for me to read during the Rangers series in 08-09 and the Montreal series, defending Boudreau from being fired, it saddens me to hear you want the team to tank.

MiSe is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:12 AM
  #366
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiSe View Post
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WE DRAFT PEOPLE. The fact remains the same and always will, unless your best players ARE your best players this team will fail.
You cannot expect the team to tank and get a number 1 draft pick each time they stumble out of the gate.

You want McPhee gone...FINE!
You want Oates gone...FINE!
You want Barkov, Mackinnon, Jones....FINE!

The team WILL not win a cup unless Nicky and Ovie are going, there simply cannot be 16 mil in dead cap space every year. So the ONLY thing to do is to root FOR the team and those players to get back to their old ways, not root for them to tank. What happens next year when we draft Jones and he's a bust, it becomes the same repetitive damn cycle every year. It's miserable to be rooting for your team to lose every game, in hopes of getting a high draft pick.

Now...if there are ten games LEFT in the season and you are close to last in the conference, you want to tank, that's up to you. You won't hear ridicule from me. The point I was making above was that they are only 12 games into the season, a shortened season yes, but there is still 75% of the season to go. Every team has their ups and downs throughout a year, SPOILER but even Chicago will lose 2-3 games in a row this year.

And to whoever's point it was about being on the backend of your fandom. This team hasn't done anything in the playoffs outside of '98. Still no cup. You can have all the talent in the world and not win the cup, but rooting against your team to even make it to the dance is poor taste.

TLDR: Its still way too early to ***** about tanking with 75% of the season remaining. You want to tank with 5-10 games left be my guest, but its still way too early in the season.
Again, who are you to tell people how to be fans?

No one is rooting against the Caps here, buddy. Many of us are rooting for a change to the current regime. Only way to do that is for the current cast of players to continue to show their true capabilities. If that means losses, then that means losses.

Something is wrong with Ovechkin. And now Backstrom too. Perhaps its the very foundation of the core of this team (and its architect) that is whats wrong.

Yes, start over with them...but that's part of it. We need to START OVER. Reset. New eye on the team, new vision, new everything. That will NOT HAPPEN if the Caps squeek into the playoffs (or nearly miss), and we start next year in the same manner.

ANOTHER YEAR WASTED. Jesus, make every year worth something. That's the main problem. Right now, this year is a total waste.

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:13 AM
  #367
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I expected more from you than that.
I think I've provided plenty of substance beyond that this morning.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:17 AM
  #368
Stewie G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,121
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I think I've provided plenty of substance beyond that this morning.
True, but his post has much more substance than anything else that was posted. A one-liner as a response to that seemed very flippant. Something as simple as 'To each their own' would have served the same purpose without sounding like a child.

Stewie G is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:18 AM
  #369
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I expected more from you than that.
a little tongue in cheek never hurts

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:19 AM
  #370
thejester
Registered User
 
thejester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 65
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
This team will tank because this team sucks. I define tanking as continuing to lose while management sells off short term assets (i.e., pending UFAs) for futures.
OK, we clearly have different definitions of tanking. I have no problem with us getting two first round picks because we sucked enough that we were out of contention at the deadline and sold as a result. But the whole idea of people saying TANK TANK TANK and bemoaning improvements in the team implies management has to take help the process along. While I'd say it with less caps lock MiSe I'd basically agree that not doing your utmost to win can be cancerous for any sporting club.

Quote:
I think more young talent will solve something because a lot of the young talent the team has been stacking is no longer effective or no longer with the organization.
And don't you think it's worth asking why that is and what can be done to change it?

Quote:
I don't propose just going with youngsters as they did for the first several years Ovy was in the league. I propose using the increased organizational depth to add legitimate NHLers and change the makeup of the team.
Which again I don't have any problem with. But the basic problem remains: how do you get Backstrom and Ovechkin back to producing at the levels their contracts demand? And what do you do to make sure that Kuznetsov/Forsberg/whoever you're drafting don't end up the same way? tl;dr, I have no problem with drafting high and rebuilding the team heavily off the back of the UFA market with an eye to post-Sochi if we continue to genuinely suck this year. But at this point I'd rather start winning on the back of in-form play by the existing core than losing to guarantee us the chance to draft some kids who could be good or could be duds or could end up being like the last crop of would-be prodigies we drafted.

thejester is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:20 AM
  #371
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
True, but his post has much more substance than anything else that was posted. A one-liner as a response to that seemed very flippant. Something as simple as 'To each their own' would have served the same purpose without sounding like a child.
no more flippant than MiSe's comment "to whoever's point...". it's easy to see who's point it is, etc etc.

Flippancy is met with flippancy.

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:22 AM
  #372
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejester View Post
OK, we clearly have different definitions of tanking. I have no problem with us getting two first round picks because we sucked enough that we were out of contention at the deadline and sold as a result. But the whole idea of people saying TANK TANK TANK and bemoaning improvements in the team implies management has to take help the process along. While I'd say it with less caps lock MiSe I'd basically agree that not doing your utmost to win can be cancerous for any sporting club.


And don't you think it's worth asking why that is and what can be done to change it?

Which again I don't have any problem with. But the basic problem remains: how do you get Backstrom and Ovechkin back to producing at the levels their contracts demand? And what do you do to make sure that Kuznetsov/Forsberg/whoever you're drafting don't end up the same way? tl;dr, I have no problem with drafting high and rebuilding the team heavily off the back of the UFA market with an eye to post-Sochi if we continue to genuinely suck this year. But at this point I'd rather start winning on the back of in-form play by the existing core than losing to guarantee us the chance to draft some kids who could be good or could be duds or could end up being like the last crop of would-be prodigies we drafted.
The only consistency in the past 15 years has been the Caps management regime.

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:22 AM
  #373
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,630
vCash: 500
I'd agree that if the end goal is to be a legit cup contender then getting Ovechkin and Backstrom back to being Ovechkin and Backstrom is more important than getting a higher draft pick this season.

And IMO getting this team turned around and doing well again is more likely to result in them getting back to their glory days selves than tanking so at this point at least I am not pro tanking. Ask me again in say 20 more games...

Millhaus is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:23 AM
  #374
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiSe View Post
424- K 5-6...Sorry its a partial 10-game I work as a sorry video game dev and can't afford FULL tix.

But if you want in Beta for Elder Scrolls Online, hit me up, as long as you're not rooting against this team.

You and TXPD were always sources of inspiration for me to read during the Rangers series in 08-09 and the Montreal series, defending Boudreau from being fired, it saddens me to hear you want the team to tank.
I'm a realist. Those teams were up-and-coming with a bright future, and had a chance to win it all (especially that 2009-10 team).

That's not where we are right now. The stars aren't firing, the goalies aren't stopping anything, the PK is a disaster, and the PP isn't much better. Combine that with the hole we've dug ourselves and having a new, inexperienced coach, and you get a situation where playoffs aren't likely. Even if Oates turns out to be a good coach, it'll probably take half of this season for the team to figure him out.

Which of these scenarios woudl you rather see?
1- The team starts winning at a modest pace (think last season) and finishes 9-10 in the conference, gets a pick somewhere around 14 and loses the UFAs for nothing. The run for a playoff spot convinces GMGM and Ted that only minor tweaks are needed. Next year we see basically the same roster, with one or two middling FA added (of the Hamrlik/Ward ilk).

2- The team continues to be mediocre to bad, is out of the playoffs by the deadline, trades the UFAs for pick and prospects, gets a top 5 pick, and one of (or both of) GMGM and Ted realize that a major change is needed.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 09:33 AM
  #375
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Old Town
Posts: 18,756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejester View Post
OK, we clearly have different definitions of tanking. I have no problem with us getting two first round picks because we sucked enough that we were out of contention at the deadline and sold as a result. But the whole idea of people saying TANK TANK TANK and bemoaning improvements in the team implies management has to take help the process along. While I'd say it with less caps lock MiSe I'd basically agree that not doing your utmost to win can be cancerous for any sporting club.


And don't you think it's worth asking why that is and what can be done to change it?


Which again I don't have any problem with. But the basic problem remains: how do you get Backstrom and Ovechkin back to producing at the levels their contracts demand? And what do you do to make sure that Kuznetsov/Forsberg/whoever you're drafting don't end up the same way? tl;dr, I have no problem with drafting high and rebuilding the team heavily off the back of the UFA market with an eye to post-Sochi if we continue to genuinely suck this year. But at this point I'd rather start winning on the back of in-form play by the existing core than losing to guarantee us the chance to draft some kids who could be good or could be duds or could end up being like the last crop of would-be prodigies we drafted.
"not doing your utmost to win" can be cancerous if describing a recurring behavior of the players, but for management over the short term in this situation? Whatever cancerous effect it had would be cured once aggressive moves to make the team better (which I'm proposing for the summer) are made. I'm coming at this from the perspective of management.

Do you honestly think if management sold off the UFAs and a couple others, and then traded for/signed some big time players this summer, it would have a negative overall effect on the players still on the team? I don't.

I think the best way to get Ovechkin and Backstrom back is to surround them with better talent, which would take some pressure off of them and improve their play. You don't think adding someone like Macknnon would help those two?

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.