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Has Gagner proven to you to be a legit 2C?

View Poll Results: Is Gagner a legit 2C
Yes proven 2C keep him 184 67.40%
Yes proven 2C trade him 44 16.12%
No not a proven 2C 45 16.48%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:53 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
TSN has it on their game highlights.
And I'll add that one more viewing of the RJU goal doesn't convince me that Hemsky couldn't have helped out there.
Yes, Gagner got beat but Hemsky wasn't doing much of anything and basically let RJU take the shot unmolested.

Yeah, watching it again I may have exaggerated the "board battle" in my mind. My bad. Still a great play by Gagner any way you look at it.
Like I stated in our live game feed, and a differnet camera angle, you could see Gagner getting puck by being hard around boards and squeezing past the D. there was contact for sure, and I could hear it on the surround sound.

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02-11-2013, 02:55 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Goes to show as well how MPS speed is such a asset not counting the pp he brings us, not many players could get up the ice that fast to accept that pass. Was truly a great goal all around.
In the 1st I saw that he was playing the point on the PP, did that continue in the 2nd and 3rd periods? If so how did he do?

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02-11-2013, 03:01 AM
  #228
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Like I stated in our live game feed, and a differnet camera angle, you could see Gagner getting puck by being hard around boards and squeezing past the D. there was contact for sure, and I could hear it on the surround sound.
Yeah there was contact for sure, but in my mind I had him battering Wiz.
Isn't it like 3:00 AM in Edmonton ... some of you guys sure love your Oilers

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02-11-2013, 03:03 AM
  #229
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NO it means You consider me inadequate in the position for the aforementioned reasons. Nothing wrong with my comprehension.

I like Gagner the player, the personality, and the guy with the solid attitude and try always wanting to be better. A favorite for years. (now I have others)
Wanting someone else who is more defensively responsible doesn't necessarily mean the referenced player is defensively irresponsible. That is simply your conclusion. If I am dating a supermodel who grades out at 9 out of 10, and I say I want a prettier girlfriend, it doesn't mean the first girl isn't attractive.

If he always tries to be better, why is he horrible at faceoffs? Six years to figure it out. Does he not put in the time, or is he just incapable of doing the job?

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02-11-2013, 03:09 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
In the 1st I saw that he was playing the point on the PP, did that continue in the 2nd and 3rd periods? If so how did he do?
I don't recall him on the pp in the 2nd or third but I could be wrong.

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02-11-2013, 03:10 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Honest question, even if Gagner keeps his 1ppg production level up do you see him having the defensive capabilities to go head to head with Joe Thornton, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Toews, etc.?
That's a really high bar, there are a ton of 1st line centers who come out on the losing side of that equation. List of 2nd line centers I wouldn't be shy putting out against them?

-Patrice Bergeron
-Evgeni Malkin
-Mike Richards
-Joe Pavelski
-Ryan Kessler
-Jordan Staal (maybe)
*Didn't add Zetterberg cause he seems to be playing wing half the time.

If you noticed a trend all of those teams are cup contenders with the exception of Carolina (feel free to insert joke about San Jose choking in the playoffs). This may be the point your trying to make BBO in that we need to acquire a player of this calibre for our 2nd line center role if we want a better than average chance at a cup. You have to understand though that acquiring a 2nd line center of this level is not an easy thing to do, to be honest they are probably all good enough to be a 1st line center on some other team. If this is what you want you might as well say we need to get another 1st line center.

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02-11-2013, 03:12 AM
  #232
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If he always tries to be better, why is he horrible at faceoffs? Six years to figure it out. Does he not put in the time, or is he just incapable of doing the job?[/QUOTE]

He was at 57.1% on the dot tonight which is considerably better then the previous games that's for sure. One thing I've noticed is that he is blocking more shots. He blocked a couple tonight which could have resulted in goals. The pass on prvs goal was sick great play all around. With Ralph behind the bench I think gagner could become a better all around defensive player. I hope.

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02-11-2013, 03:13 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Burnt Biscuits View Post
That's a really high bar, there are a ton of 1st line centers who come out on the losing side of that equation. List of 2nd line centers I wouldn't be shy putting out against them?

-Patrice Bergeron
-Evgeni Malkin
-Mike Richards
-Joe Pavelski
-Ryan Kessler
-Jordan Staal (maybe)
*Didn't add Zetterberg cause he seems to be playing wing half the time.

If you noticed a trend all of those teams are cup contenders with the exception of Carolina (feel free to insert joke about San Jose choking in the playoffs). This may be the point your trying to make BBO in that we need to acquire a player of this calibre for our 2nd line center role if we want a better than average chance at a cup. You have to understand though that acquiring a 2nd line center of this level is not an easy thing to do, to be honest they are probably all good enough to be a 1st line center on some other team. If this is what you want you might as well say we need to get another 1st line center.
Ultimately winning the cup is what it's all about and IMO getting an upgrade at 2C is crucial in getting there. Unless we get an elite 3C that can score a lot at ES and shut down opposing teams top or 2nd lines I don't see us getting there with Gagner. That is my point, some see it, some don't, that's what makes the world go 'round.

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02-11-2013, 03:15 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Ultimately winning the cup is what it's all about and IMO getting an upgrade at 2C is crucial in getting there. Unless we get an elite 3C that can score a lot at ES and shut down opposing teams top or 2nd lines I don't see us getting there with Gagner. That is my point, some see it, some don't, that's what makes the world go 'round.
We're going to be looking at drafting MacKinnon, Barkov, etc. if this keeps up, so maybe that issue will just sort itself out lol.

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02-11-2013, 03:18 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Oil4477 View Post
He was at 57.1% on the dot tonight which is considerably better then the previous games that's for sure. One thing I've noticed is that he is blocking more shots. He blocked a couple tonight which could have resulted in goals. The pass on prvs goal was sick great play all around. With Ralph behind the bench I think gagner could become a better all around defensive player. I hope.
Small sample size tonight. Only took 7 faceoffs. Not a lot of confidence in that area for him from the coaching staff. RNH, bum shoulder and all, took 15 draws and was better than 50%.

It would be great if he could become a better all around defensive player. Just think he is limited physically in the position he plays. Not much he can do about that. Genetics.

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02-11-2013, 03:22 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
We're going to be looking at drafting MacKinnon, Barkov, etc. if this keeps up, so maybe that issue will just sort itself out lol.
Then move Gagner to the wing and keep Hemsky or deal Hemsky and keep Gagner and voila in 2-3 years a cup contender emerges

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02-11-2013, 03:23 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by bellagiobob View Post
Small sample size tonight. Only took 7 faceoffs. Not a lot of confidence in that area for him from the coaching staff. RNH, bum shoulder and all, took 15 draws and was better than 50%.

It would be great if he could become a better all around defensive player. Just think he is limited physically in the position he plays. Not much he can do about that. Genetics.
Yeah 7 draws isn't much at all.

EDIT-Of players that have played more than 1 game and taken 10 or more draws there are only 4 players in the NHL with a worse faceoff % than Gagner . They are:

Gagner 60-98 38%
Mueller 14-24 36%
Wandell 10-20 33%
Hecht 15-33 31.2%
Halpern 2-8 20%


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02-11-2013, 03:25 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Then move Gagner to the wing and keep Hemsky or deal Hemsky and keep Gagner and voila in 2-3 years a cup contender emerges
I think the strategy at this point is to just keep drafting in the 1st round until every hole is filled, lol.

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02-11-2013, 03:39 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by bellagiobob View Post
Small sample size tonight. Only took 7 faceoffs. Not a lot of confidence in that area for him from the coaching staff. RNH, bum shoulder and all, took 15 draws and was better than 50%.

It would be great if he could become a better all around defensive player. Just think he is limited physically in the position he plays. Not much he can do about that. Genetics.

Very true only 7 draws but it's a starting point. Espcially playing centre you need to have a bit of confidence. So if he's feeling good he might due better. Personally I don't think we need a big centre to win face-offs. He needs to be stronger on the puck and to a battle for the wins. Also I've noticed with gagner there a lot of scramble draws and he doesn't get enough support to win those draws if he gets a little more help from his wingers his percentage will go up. I just rather not give up assets that we could use to develop more depth for our team and rather than trade a guy whose producing for someone who might not turn out for the team.


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02-11-2013, 06:46 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
He's garbage in 2/3 zones, I guess I need to say that he's a hell of a player to make you happy? Too bad that he's good in one zone and he has been rather inconsistent in that zone except for 1/4 of this shortened season. The thing about Gagner is that when he isn't scoring he still sucks in 2/3 zones and he sucks at faceoffs so he is basically worthless as far as winning hockey games go.

I think we can all agree he is no Rob Schremp, right BBO?

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02-11-2013, 10:07 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Yeah 7 draws isn't much at all.

EDIT-Of players that have played more than 1 game and taken 10 or more draws there are only 4 players in the NHL with a worse faceoff % than Gagner . They are:

Gagner 60-98 38%
Mueller 14-24 36%
Wandell 10-20 33%
Hecht 15-33 31.2%
Halpern 2-8 20%

This.

Gagner simply hasn't the tools to be a top line (1a or 1b) center. His heart and drive are commendable, but its the 'tools' for the job that he lacks. If Tambellini and company want to keep him an Oiler, move him to wing - granted this would probably mean using Hemsky to get 'us' the center 'we' need. Neither Gagner nor Hemsky have any business being on the 3rd or 4th lines.

Gagner's play against Umberger last night - when Umberger scored, reminded me of the times I have watched little birds go after eagles. Try as they might (and one has to give credit to the little birds, they are determined and they are showing about as much heart as a bird is capable of), all their fluttering around amounts to little more than an annoyance. No real affect at all.

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02-11-2013, 10:10 AM
  #242
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Yeah there was contact for sure, but in my mind I had him battering Wiz.
Isn't it like 3:00 AM in Edmonton ... some of you guys sure love your Oilers

! I see you like the tail of a couple posters who posts frequently, the big fishes needs small fishes. You questioned my love for the team when i said that hall and hemsky gags was a misfit as a line(but your guru was against it the next day) . I can tell you that none of my posts is against this team or any players, Gagners case isnt about a bad player its about a misfit for the team who needs to get bigger and stronger and our wingers needs support from the c position at fo and winning battles.

If i go up in the night to watch the games, then i have expections on my team, and the only important thing for me is to get my team better.
Im not posting to win discussion or scratching others back or take shots at other posters(you are the first one). You must respect others opinions, and post your own.

My view that Gags isnt a 2c going forward have a lot of supporters, 2 mods and others vets on the board, but you goes after a pretty new poster with english as 2 language, that says alot about you!

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02-11-2013, 10:18 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Ultimately winning the cup is what it's all about and IMO getting an upgrade at 2C is crucial in getting there. Unless we get an elite 3C that can score a lot at ES and shut down opposing teams top or 2nd lines I don't see us getting there with Gagner. That is my point, some see it, some don't, that's what makes the world go 'round.
There are teams who are considered contenders, that have a 2nd line center that is not a Gagner type. Gagner is 23 years old with 6 years experience. When given the opprtunity I feel he is a great fit for this team now and moving forward.
Belanger/Horcoff is a pretty good fit as a 3C (but with limited offense)

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02-11-2013, 10:24 AM
  #244
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We're going to be looking at drafting MacKinnon, Barkov, etc. if this keeps up, so maybe that issue will just sort itself out lol.
Remember, this year all non-playoff teams will vie for No. 1 overall.

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02-11-2013, 10:26 AM
  #245
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This.

Gagner simply hasn't the tools to be a top line (1a or 1b) center. His heart and drive are commendable, but its the 'tools' for the job that he lacks. If Tambellini and company want to keep him an Oiler, move him to wing - granted this would probably mean using Hemsky to get 'us' the center 'we' need. Neither Gagner nor Hemsky have any business being on the 3rd or 4th lines.
Good thing we only need him to be a 2C.

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02-11-2013, 10:28 AM
  #246
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There are teams who are considered contenders, that have a 2nd line center that is not a Gagner type. Gagner is 23 years old with 6 years experience. When given the opprtunity I feel he is a great fit for this team now and moving forward.
Belanger/Horcoff is a pretty good fit as a 3C (but with limited offense)
I should clarify being a Gagner type doesnt mean 6 years experience and is 23 years old. I am talking about his potential in the league with the offensive and character that he has, and he has many years to keep getting better given how good he can be.

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02-11-2013, 10:29 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
! I see you like the tail of a couple posters who posts frequently, the big fishes needs small fishes. You questioned my love for the team when i said that hall and hemsky gags was a misfit as a line(but your guru was against it the next day) . I can tell you that none of my posts is against this team or any players, Gagners case isnt about a bad player its about a misfit for the team who needs to get bigger and stronger and our wingers needs support from the c position at fo and winning battles.

If i go up in the night to watch the games, then i have expections on my team, and the only important thing for me is to get my team better.
Im not posting to win discussion or scratching others back or take shots at other posters(you are the first one). You must respect others opinions, and post your own.

My view that Gags isnt a 2c going forward have a lot of supporters, 2 mods and others vets on the board, but you goes after a pretty new poster with english as 2 language, that says alot about you!
I post what I think. I don't much care if its popular or not. I think my posting history bears that out.
If you don't like what I post then don't read it.


Last edited by Bryanbryoil: 02-11-2013 at 11:52 AM. Reason: don't talk about ignore lists
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02-11-2013, 10:32 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Burnt Biscuits View Post
That's a really high bar, there are a ton of 1st line centers who come out on the losing side of that equation. List of 2nd line centers I wouldn't be shy putting out against them?

-Patrice Bergeron
-Evgeni Malkin
-Mike Richards
-Joe Pavelski
-Ryan Kessler
-Jordan Staal (maybe)
*Didn't add Zetterberg cause he seems to be playing wing half the time.

If you noticed a trend all of those teams are cup contenders with the exception of Carolina (feel free to insert joke about San Jose choking in the playoffs). This may be the point your trying to make BBO in that we need to acquire a player of this calibre for our 2nd line center role if we want a better than average chance at a cup. You have to understand though that acquiring a 2nd line center of this level is not an easy thing to do, to be honest they are probably all good enough to be a 1st line center on some other team. If this is what you want you might as well say we need to get another 1st line center.
Excellent post and rebuttal but not getting the attention it deserves. The latter point as well is the perfect logical extension. That really we have nobody that can go against the Thorntons of the league but then again few teams ever do. Theres different ways to win hockey games. If Joe Thornton, arguably the most physically dominating Center in hockey today was the sole recipe to winning well then...

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02-11-2013, 10:38 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Ultimately winning the cup is what it's all about and IMO getting an upgrade at 2C is crucial in getting there. Unless we get an elite 3C that can score a lot at ES and shut down opposing teams top or 2nd lines I don't see us getting there with Gagner. That is my point, some see it, some don't, that's what makes the world go 'round.
Is this a condescending comment?

What behemoth center was "shutting down opponents in 05-06? Other than Stoll we didn't have a lot of size at the position. Peca's not exactly a big guy. Strong yes. Guys can get strong.

What shutdown Center did Carolina have that year?

You're potentially locking yourself in a one way to win narrative and expecting everybody to hold the same view or they are wrong.

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02-11-2013, 11:16 AM
  #250
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Is this a condescending comment?

What behemoth center was "shutting down opponents in 05-06? Other than Stoll we didn't have a lot of size at the position. Peca's not exactly a big guy. Strong yes. Guys can get strong.

What shutdown Center did Carolina have that year?

You're potentially locking yourself in a one way to win narrative and expecting everybody to hold the same view or they are wrong.
If this was a court case, closing arguments can also include:

1) Joe Thornton has never been on a Stanley Cup winning team (but Boston can forward all kinds of thanks)
2) Washington (even Chicago) seem to be at the top of the favourites to win each year, but fail to produce a steady # 2 big center year after year.
3) Anaheim have been off to a great start.....who is there huge guy down the middle @ 2C?
4) We have to stop comparing (and holding the bar up so high) to the Messier & Gretzky days (to now)
5) Defense wins championsips (great goaltending and superb special team play).
6) Creating a game system within the organization and on the ice will increase wins, when you surround the team with players who stick around, and wins create confidence (dangerous in the world of hockey, more so then a huge # 2 centerman)

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