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Weber & Suter: Like Peas and Carrots

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Old
02-11-2013, 12:01 PM
  #76
roon
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Another Wild fan here coming in peace. I will be honest that I did not follow the Suter deal very closely from a Pred's fan perspective but I must ask - from an outsiders viewpoint it seems that Weber's loyalties are just as questionable as Suter's were...he would not have signed that offer sheet otherwise...why is Suter so hated and Weber gets a pass? Not trying to troll, just trying to understand.

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02-11-2013, 12:16 PM
  #77
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Weber claims, and the owners support the claim, he was told the Predators would match no matter what, and that he was just trying to get the best deal possible. Suter claimed he intended to resign with the Predators then didn't even give a chance to let us match the offer, and took a deal with the Wild that was close to what the Preds had orginally offered. Both Weber and Poile said Suter lied about his intentions.

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02-11-2013, 12:25 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Weber claims, and the owners support the claim, he was told the Predators would match no matter what, and that he was just trying to get the best deal possible. Suter claimed he intended to resign with the Predators then didn't even give a chance to let us match the offer, and took a deal with the Wild that was close to what the Preds had orginally offered. Both Weber and Poile said Suter lied about his intentions.
Then why didn't Nashville just give Weber whatever he wanted? Why go through the offer sheet nonsense?

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02-11-2013, 12:41 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
Then why didn't Nashville just give Weber whatever he wanted? Why go through the offer sheet nonsense?
1. Restricted Free Agent
2. Collective Bargaining Agreement
3. Front Loaded Contract

Weber saw the pending CBA as possibly killing off the front loaded deals and wanted to cash in. He took full advantage of the huge payday contracts that were being given out while he still could.

He would have gotten almost the same amount of money from the Preds over the life of his contract, but not the signing bonuses. He knew he was going to get paid no matter what, and he even had limitted control over where he was going to play, either Philly or Nashville.

It's definitely not all rosey between Weber and the fans. But it's way better than Suter who never gave Poile a chance to match, and left us to play for Liarpold.

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02-11-2013, 12:53 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
1. Restricted Free Agent
2. Collective Bargaining Agreement
3. Front Loaded Contract

Weber saw the pending CBA as possibly killing off the front loaded deals and wanted to cash in. He took full advantage of the huge payday contracts that were being given out while he still could.

He would have gotten almost the same amount of money from the Preds over the life of his contract, but not the signing bonuses. He knew he was going to get paid no matter what, and he even had limitted control over where he was going to play, either Philly or Nashville.

It's definitely not all rosey between Weber and the fans. But it's way better than Suter who never gave Poile a chance to match, and left us to play for Liarpold.
I guess that is my question. If Nashville was going to match whatever Weber was offered...why didn't he just ask for a front loaded deal with loads of signing bonuses from Poile? Or am I totally missing something?

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02-11-2013, 01:00 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
I guess that is my question. If Nashville was going to match whatever Weber was offered...why didn't he just ask for a front loaded deal with loads of signing bonuses from Poile? Or am I totally missing something?
Poile was never going to offer a front loaded deal because of the strain it puts on the owners. He would have gladly given him the $7.5/yr

Weber forced his hand due to the pending CBA.

It's kind of a low blow, but he used the rules to his advantage. I don't like it, but if I had to chance to haul in $25M in one calendar year, i'd probably do it too.

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02-11-2013, 01:09 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Poile was never going to offer a front loaded deal because of the strain it puts on the owners. He would have gladly given him the $7.5/yr

Weber forced his hand due to the pending CBA.

It's kind of a low blow, but he used the rules to his advantage. I don't like it, but if I had to chance to haul in $25M in one calendar year, i'd probably do it too.
Ok - so Weber holds the club hostage monitarily and demands payment or he is going to Philly, but thats ok because Poile had a chance to match it and retain him? Suter, mentions he would like to re-sign, but goes to play elsewhere without the option to match. If Suter gave Poile the option to match but turned him down anyway, would there still be the hate?

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02-11-2013, 01:33 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
Ok - so Weber holds the club hostage monitarily and demands payment or he is going to Philly, but thats ok because Poile had a chance to match it and retain him? Suter, mentions he would like to re-sign, but goes to play elsewhere without the option to match. If Suter gave Poile the option to match but turned him down anyway, would there still be the hate?
There'd still be some due to his leaving at all, but I think it'd be considerably reduced. I know that'd take him off my "hate" list (he'd be on the "depressing to think about" list instead).

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02-11-2013, 01:40 PM
  #84
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Not as much because at least that would show some honesty in keeping his word. Even if he had no intentions of signing here, he did tell Poile that he would give him a chance to match.

Either don't say it in the first place, or honor your word.

It goes back farther than just the free agent signing though. Suter strung this franchise along all season, slipped up a bit at the all-star break, played CYA immediately after that and then came back looking disinterested. He also said that management needed to show they were serious about improving the forwards, so Poile trades for Kostitsyn and brings Radulov back. Every said we had the best trade deadline, but even that turned out to be a non-factor and another attempt to hide the fact that he was leaving.

He was drafted in Nashville and came up through the system. The franchise put a lot of money into him and 9 years culminating in him being one of the team captains. His personality and interests meshed well with Nashville's culture as well. Then in less than half a season it became very apparent that he wasn't interested in coming back. The icing on the cake is leaving for Leipold who holds villain status with Preds fans.

There's really no comparing the two situations with Weber and Suter. One gave us a chance to match and retain his services for the rest of his career, the other lied and deceived on his way out the door to sleep with the enemy.

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02-11-2013, 01:42 PM
  #85
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Not to mention that with Suter we get nothing at all out of it.

With Weber, if the Preds had decided not to match, they would have received four 1st round picks.

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02-11-2013, 01:59 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roon View Post
Ok - so Weber holds the club hostage monitarily and demands payment or he is going to Philly, but thats ok because Poile had a chance to match it and retain him? Suter, mentions he would like to re-sign, but goes to play elsewhere without the option to match. If Suter gave Poile the option to match but turned him down anyway, would there still be the hate?
I don't give Weber a pass in the situation either but Weber is still here.

Bottom line, Suter lied and lied and lied. It's fine. It's a business but he'll never get respect or love from this fan base. He forced Poile's hand at the trade deadline to make upgrades-- part of his "requests" for re-signing-- with, imo, no intention of staying. He held out without saying what he was planning in regards to staying and like a hopeful girl getting stood up on prom night, we sat waiting on his heifer ass instead of knowing to move on and find another date.

To make it all worse, he went to Liarpold. The man who gutted our team while making deals to buy yours. He is the devil and I hope niether of them ever get the cup.

Had he given us the option to match, I have no doubt we would have. so no, the hate wouldn't have been there because he'd still be here. If, for some reason, we would have passed, the sting wouldn't be as bad but he'd still be playing for the devil.

edit: yeah, what Legionnaire11 said.

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02-11-2013, 03:17 PM
  #87
triggrman
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Don't think for a minute Weber didn't sign that os as a retaliation for the Poile taken him to arbitration the year before, he did, even mentioned it.

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02-11-2013, 04:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Don't think for a minute Weber didn't sign that os as a retaliation for the Poile taken him to arbitration the year before, he did, even mentioned it.
I guess I never read he did it as retaliation. I just read, it's all business , ********, my agent, ********.

If he did do it as "retaliation" because Poile couldn't get his jackass of an agent to call him back during June and negotiate...........and the Preds back was against the wall , well........it just speaks to Webers lack of character. If there's another side to that story, I never heard it..

Retaliation is the act of a spiteful child...........

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02-11-2013, 04:21 PM
  #89
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I guess I never read he did it as retaliation. I just read, it's all business , ********, my agent, ********.

If he did do it as "retaliation" because Poile couldn't get his jackass of an agent to call him back during June and negotiate...........and the Preds back was against the wall , well........it just speaks to Webers lack of character. If there's another side to that story, I never heard it..

Retaliation is the act of a spiteful child...........
you would've done the same damn thing ... new cba coming up and everything

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02-11-2013, 05:33 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
you would've done the same damn thing ... new cba coming up and everything
read what I wrote..... I said nothing about the cba. I said nothing about business of making a living...

I said doing it for retaliation is the act of a child.

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02-11-2013, 05:43 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Don't think for a minute Weber didn't sign that os as a retaliation for the Poile taken him to arbitration the year before, he did, even mentioned it.
I recall Peterson saying something like Poile tried to settle before arbitration but his agent refused and wanted to go through with it.

IMO the offer sheet was about money and money only. I would agree that a lot of the things his agent said during the offer sheet week were probably in retaliation to arbitration. But it wasn't because Poile forced him there.

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02-11-2013, 06:03 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by roon View Post
Ok - so Weber holds the club hostage monitarily and demands payment or he is going to Philly, but thats ok because Poile had a chance to match it and retain him? Suter, mentions he would like to re-sign, but goes to play elsewhere without the option to match. If Suter gave Poile the option to match but turned him down anyway, would there still be the hate?

there wouldnt be hate if Suter didnt lie. Weber never lied. Weber just used philly to get maximum money. Suter asked not to be traded and that he wanted to be a predator then he signed with the wild first chance he got in FA. He blew smoke up everyones ass here in nashville about the whole thing, hows that so hard to understand?

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02-11-2013, 08:16 PM
  #93
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Poile told Weber, arbitration was just a business tool, Weber told Poile the os was just a business tool.

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02-11-2013, 08:34 PM
  #94
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Weber played the business side of things. He has the right to do whatever he wants, but at least he was honest. Suter was just stringing everyone along and lying about his intentions. When we traded for Kostitsyn, Gaustad, and got Radulov back we became a elite team.

This was, and still is, my view on it: Suter was probably content with being here as long as he had to be, but would never commit to being here for the length of his career. Maybe he didn't want to be Weber's sidekick. Maybe he wanted to play in a hockey market because he's from a hockey family and wanted more spotlight. Maybe it was his family. Whatever the case, he bolted immediately, which goes against everything he said.

He claimed that he wanted the front office to make us a contender. So, we extend Rinne for 7 years, and we have what most analysts said was the best trade deadline in the league. We bring back Radulov. We also tell everyone that we will bring back Weber if another team offers him a contract. It was made clear that money wasn't a issue, and that we were building a contender.

I genuinely believe that Suter was publicly trying to say things to make him seem like the good guy, but was leaving himself a way to leave in the end, because he never thought we would actually BE a contender. I like to joke that as we were making these moves to make ourselves better, Suter would think to himself "S***. I'm really gonna look like a liar when I leave now." I heard him say once this summer that he talked to Parise about coming to play with him in Nashville. Yeah, I guess technically saying "Hey man you should just play down here" while laughing would qualify as "talking to him about it."

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02-11-2013, 09:27 PM
  #95
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Another Wild fan here coming in peace. I will be honest that I did not follow the Suter deal very closely from a Pred's fan perspective but I must ask - from an outsiders viewpoint it seems that Weber's loyalties are just as questionable as Suter's were...he would not have signed that offer sheet otherwise...why is Suter so hated and Weber gets a pass? Not trying to troll, just trying to understand.
No offense guys, but can we stop with the "coming in peace" stuff?

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02-12-2013, 10:23 AM
  #96
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No offense guys, but can we stop with the "coming in peace" stuff?
Statements like that probably wouldn't be needed if people didn't take their sports teams so damn seriously. As it stands, anyone from an "opposing team" is immediately considered a troll unless they state otherwise.

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02-12-2013, 10:29 AM
  #97
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No offense guys, but can we stop with the "coming in peace" stuff?
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Statements like that probably wouldn't be needed if people didn't take their sports teams so damn seriously. As it stands, anyone from an "opposing team" is immediately considered a troll unless they state otherwise.
well, it really has nothing to do with people taking their sports 'too seriously... the truth is, these boards, for good or ill, are designed so that "your" board is a 'safe haven" and the infraction hammer gets swung with very little provocation if you are on another teams board.

it keeps the trolling to a minimum but really stifles the hockey talk with fans of other teams...so it is what it is and no amount of "I come in peace" disclaimers will save you if you say something negative on another teams board...

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02-12-2013, 11:07 AM
  #98
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I can't believe you guys think people take sports too seriously. I mean really this is crap, you need to take sports seriously, it is after all part of our identity is it not? This game hinges on what socks I wear, and what I post in the pregame threads, and some other superstitious stuff I'm leaving off because it's game day. How dare you guys, you guys should be taken out and beaten, like a dead horse.

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02-12-2013, 11:21 AM
  #99
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I can't believe you guys think people take sports too seriously. I mean really this is crap, you need to take sports seriously, it is after all part of our identity is it not? This game hinges on what socks I wear, and what I post in the pregame threads, and some other superstitious stuff I'm leaving off because it's game day. How dare you guys, you guys should be taken out and beaten, like a dead horse.
I'm sensing slight sarcasm... but I'm not wearing my pink and orange heart socks because it's game day...

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02-12-2013, 12:06 PM
  #100
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I think Josi will make us all forget Suter by the end of the season. Weber's not scoring because the forwards aren't get the puck deep on the cycle and we're not establishing control in the offensive zone long enough to get Weber open for his shot. It will come, IMHO.
Also, there's not Patric Hörnqvist screening those goalies cause he is injured. When he comes back, you guys just watch how suddenly Shea Weber stars scoring. Both goals (when Hörnqvist makes those masterful screens) and assists (when Hörnqvist whacks those rebounds in). He is the key element there.

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