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Old
02-11-2013, 11:45 AM
  #201
sully61
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
For everyone making noise about Hudler, lets just think about how Hudler played when he first came back from Europe and had to adjust. That was with already knowing the wings system and playing a bunch of years with the wings and in the system.

Brunner is doing much better and is seemingly getting better every game. If he isnt already better than Hudler hes pretty much on par with him. Offensively theyre close I would say but Brunner is a much better skater and stronger on the boards
I'm a big Brunner supporter, but he hasn't played a single second on the boards this year. He's to weak and knows it thats why he rarely has the puck 5 on 5 unless it's for a quick second.

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02-11-2013, 11:48 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Bico View Post
Hello of Switzerland.
Our championship is of another level than your.
Brunner was our enemy in Switzerland. We called it " the machine ".
He has a nasty temper which is going to allow him to give way in NHL. There he is again a little bit light, but you can rely on him. If it does not injure itself, it is going to make some good work.
Thank you for having cleared us of it... In the Swiss championship it is an extraterrestrial... Better than most of the foreign reinforcements which come for many North America...
Sorry for my English me speak French...
: Yo:

Interesting, I wouldn't have thought of him as a guy with a bad temper

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02-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Damien Brunner game-by-game:

1. @STL, 0+0=0p, 3 shots, +0
2. @CBJ, 0+0=0p, 6 shots, -1 (Shootout winning goal)
3. v.DAL, 1+0=1p, 6 shots, +1
4. v.MIN, 1+0=1p, 3 shots, -1
5. @CHI, 0+1=1p, 4 shots, +0
6. v.DAL, 1+0=1p, 3 shots, +1
7. v.STL, 0+1=1p, 2 shots, +2
8. @CBJ, 1+0=1p, 2 shots, -1
9. v.CGY, 0+0=0p, 3 shots, +0
10. @STL, 1+0=1p, 2 shots, +1
11. v.EDM, 0+1=1p, 5 shots, +0
12. v.LAK, 1+0=1p, 3 shots, +1

12 games, 6+3=9 points, 42 shots (3.5 shots per game), +3, 14.3% shooting percentage.

He has only 1+2 on the power-play, 5+1=6 are made at even strength.

He has played played only 3 games without a point. Very very consistent scoring. Shooting all the time. No multi-point games, but I'll take that consistent scoring any day before that.
His shot is amazing. I have not seen many shooting the puck that good.

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02-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
For everyone making noise about Hudler, lets just think about how Hudler played when he first came back from Europe and had to adjust. That was with already knowing the wings system and playing a bunch of years with the wings and in the system.

Brunner is doing much better and is seemingly getting better every game. If he isnt already better than Hudler hes pretty much on par with him. Offensively theyre close I would say but Brunner is a much better skater and stronger on the boards
I don't know if you forget, or if you have an intentional selective memory.

But Hudler came back and played with Helm or Abdelkader as his center.
When he played with Datsyuk, he was a point-per-game player.

Where do you think Brunner would be right now with Abs or Emmerton as his center and 2nd until PP time, if any. I think we know exactly where he would be.

Some would be screaming for him to get demoted to the AHL while others would be screaming for top Top 6 minutes.

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02-11-2013, 12:04 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I don't know if you forget, or if you have an intentional selective memory.

But Hudler came back and played with Helm or Abdelkader as his center.
When he played with Datsyuk, he was a point-per-game player.

Where do you think Brunner would be right now with Abs or Emmerton as his center and 2nd until PP time, if any. I think we know exactly where he would be.

Some would be screaming for him to get demoted to the AHL while others would be screaming for top Top 6 minutes.
I think because of Brunner speed, something Hudler has almost none of earned him a spot in the top 6. Hudler put up points in the top 6 no doubt, but right off the get go Hudler was getting PP time and wasnt doing anything with it either. Brunner is playing with good line mates but hes not riding their coattails, the guy is creating offense as well.

The fact that he has shown without knowing the system he can step in and contribute like this and help create offense is something Hudler didnt do when he came back at first. Brunner has taken his opportunity and ran with it big time

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02-11-2013, 12:15 PM
  #206
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Anyone know what kind of Salary he bagged home playing in the NLA in his native switzerland? (switzerland has very low taxes too right?)

Maybe he's actually earning less now in this one year deal than he did playing at home?

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02-11-2013, 12:17 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
I think because of Brunner speed, something Hudler has almost none of earned him a spot in the top 6. Hudler put up points in the top 6 no doubt, but right off the get go Hudler was getting PP time and wasnt doing anything with it either. Brunner is playing with good line mates but hes not riding their coattails, the guy is creating offense as well.

The fact that he has shown without knowing the system he can step in and contribute like this and help create offense is something Hudler didnt do when he came back at first. Brunner has taken his opportunity and ran with it big time
It's all about skating. No one would've said anything about Hudler's size if he could skate even close to Brunner. The biggest problem with Hudler in the top 6 is the matchup, especially since the Wings don't have a lot of size up front anyway. If Hudler were playing with Getzlaf and Perry, I don't think it would be such an issue.

I'm sure Hudler would've put up better numbers had he played in the top 6 more, I'm just not sure it would've translated into more wins.

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02-11-2013, 12:19 PM
  #208
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Also, how come he hasn't been taught to forecheck properly? It's pretty useless just going fullspeed towards a defender and just try to get the puck with your stick. He needs to play the body more.

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02-11-2013, 12:20 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
It's all about skating. No one would've said anything about Hudler's size if he could skate even close to Brunner. The biggest problem with Hudler in the top 6 is the matchup, especially since the Wings don't have a lot of size up front anyway. If Hudler were playing with Getzlaf and Perry, I don't think it would be such an issue.

I'm sure Hudler would've put up better numbers had he played in the top 6 more, I'm just not sure it would've translated into more wins.
^This^. Exactly this. You couldn't put it in better words.

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02-11-2013, 12:27 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
Anyone know what kind of Salary he bagged home playing in the NLA in his native switzerland? (switzerland has very low taxes too right?)

Maybe he's actually earning less now in this one year deal than he did playing at home?
As a star player in Switzerland you can get about 600'000 - 850'000 CHF a year (1$ = 0.92 CHF).
So lets say EV Zug would have given him a contract over 700'000 CHF and he would live in Zug that would get him 540'000 CHF (at about 160'000 CHF taxes) year.

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02-11-2013, 12:37 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
It's all about skating. No one would've said anything about Hudler's size if he could skate even close to Brunner. The biggest problem with Hudler in the top 6 is the matchup, especially since the Wings don't have a lot of size up front anyway. If Hudler were playing with Getzlaf and Perry, I don't think it would be such an issue.

I'm sure Hudler would've put up better numbers had he played in the top 6 more, I'm just not sure it would've translated into more wins.
It's not ALL ABOUT SKATING

Brunner's skating, first of all, hasn't been that impressive. How many times have you caught yourself, going, "Wow, there's some speed." Or "Holy, guy is agile."

He hasn't shown that yet.

While there are times Hudler would make you say, "Wow, guy is slow," he had improved and he doesn't look slow, and really isn't too slow to be a winger in the NHL.

Brunner hasn't translated into a bunch of wins for us that we wouldn't have had if Hudler was in the lineup instead.

I don't want to get caught into some Eva Zero Unit nightmare thread. But who criticized Hudler's overall game are really doing to much assessing of Brunner's overall game.

Moreover, it's not about Hudler vs Brunner.

What Hudler vs Sammy?

How much better would Hudler be on a line with Flip and Datsyuk?


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02-11-2013, 12:40 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
I think because of Brunner speed, something Hudler has almost none of earned him a spot in the top 6. Hudler put up points in the top 6 no doubt, but right off the get go Hudler was getting PP time and wasnt doing anything with it either. Brunner is playing with good line mates but hes not riding their coattails, the guy is creating offense as well.

The fact that he has shown without knowing the system he can step in and contribute like this and help create offense is something Hudler didnt do when he came back at first. Brunner has taken his opportunity and ran with it big time
Brunner never earned a ****ing thing.

He was Babcock's project, plain and simple.

Leino never got this opportunity. It took Hudler years for this chance. And if Brunner was Holland's boy instead of Babcock's boy, Brunner might back in Switzerland already

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02-11-2013, 12:49 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Brunner hasn't translated into a bunch of wins for us that we wouldn't have had if Hudler was in the lineup instead.


Perhaps that doesn't happen with Hudler.

Perhaps it happens again, Bob.

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02-11-2013, 12:56 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post


Perhaps that doesn't happen with Hudler.

Perhaps it happens again, Bob.
Perhaps Hudler scores at even strength and we don't even give the other guys a point.

People sell Hudler short on this board.

Personally, I was fine with letting Hudler walk because I thought we needed an elite righthanded shot for Datsyuk and I thought one of our prospects needed to step into Hudler's role.

But we never got of those things.

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02-11-2013, 01:09 PM
  #215
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If we could sell Hudler taller, he might have been less of a handicap along the boards and defensively.

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02-11-2013, 01:22 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post

Moreover, it's not about Hudler vs Brunner.

What Hudler vs Sammy?
You're right, it's more about Hudler vs. Tatar, Nyquist and Jarnkrok because there's no need to pay Hudler $4m (or anything near that) when you have 3 guys that could easily fill Hudler's role, and are younger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
How much better would Hudler be on a line with Flip and Datsyuk?
Who knows, but I still don't think we'd have a line that could help compete for a cup, they'd get destroyed in the playoffs.

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02-11-2013, 01:48 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by AllezLucerne View Post
As a star player in Switzerland you can get about 600'000 - 850'000 CHF a year (1$ = 0.92 CHF).
So lets say EV Zug would have given him a contract over 700'000 CHF and he would live in Zug that would get him 540'000 CHF (at about 160'000 CHF taxes) year.
I think your assumption is way too high. Swiss key players earn around 550'000 to 600'000. Zug is not known for high salaries (compared with Bern, Lugano etc.). I think CHF 500'000 p.a. Before tax is realistic.

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02-11-2013, 02:14 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by crashman View Post
You're right, it's more about Hudler vs. Tatar, Nyquist and Jarnkrok because there's no need to pay Hudler $4m (or anything near that) when you have 3 guys that could easily fill Hudler's role, and are younger.



Who knows, but I still don't think we'd have a line that could help compete for a cup, they'd get destroyed in the playoffs.
We've won with Homer, who couldn't skate, playing on a top line.
Too much is made of Hudler's weaknesses, and not enough of his strength.
And the fact is that Hudler played well in last year's playoffs. He went to net and scored in the dirty places.

Hudler's weaknesses become more problematic when you consider the skating of Bertuzzi and Cleary, also on the roster.

If we weren't going to get Datsyuk a winger and we aren't using Tatar or Nyquist, then why not keep Hudler for $4m?

Good question. There are rumblings that Hudler had some issues with some people in the dressing room.

On the other hand, Mickey Redmond seems to love the guy... so he can't be all bad.

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02-11-2013, 02:23 PM
  #219
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It really is a shame that I don't like divers, would love having him on the team otherwise.

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02-11-2013, 02:39 PM
  #220
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Hudler's problem was that his stregths as a hockeyplayer was nothing that is missing from our team.

He is left-handed, we have them already, roster full.
He is small, our star players are small, we have to surround them with bigger players.
He is slow, those big players (we surround those smaller left-handed stars) are slow, so we have to add speed.
We sign Brunner, we have a faster player, who shoots right. Same sized guys, but added two attributes this team is missing (better speed and handness).
You sign Samuelsson, you add size + defensive ability (that Hudler is lacking) + right handness and + speed. You sign a versatile player who could be used at TOP6, but who becomes worthless (like Hudler) if you have to take him out from the TOP6.

Yes, I know, Sammy is injured and hasn't been used anywhere. Not so "versatile" now. But the logic is there, you can't foresee injuries.

Minor things that in big picture makes the team better.

These are pretty much no brainer things. You don't need any conspiracies to think these about. Hudler would have cost 4 million for four years and the salary cap is coming down at next year and it isn't gonna raise much after that for next three years (when we have to make some costly extensions), because of the "make whole" department in the CBA.

So Holland signed cheaper Brunner and Samuelsson for the almost same price that Hudler would have cost alone. And he got these guys with shorter contract, that he could get a better figure with the cap after the lockout is solved and not handcuffing with risky longer contracts. All the owners and managements knew that the cap is coming down, so he didn't want to handcuff with an expensive player with attributes that doesn't strengthen our team.

Pretty simple logic, I don't understand why people are suggesting some other wierd conspiracy theories.

Hudler didn't fit in our team with our roster core. He would be a perfect left winger to play with Getzlaf and Perry. Teams are different. Red Wings are Red Wings and the Flames are the Flames. Let's move on.


Last edited by Henkka: 02-11-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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02-11-2013, 02:41 PM
  #221
Townsend Beasley
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Ive never heard rumors about hudler, but never got the specifics.

Can someone enlighten me?

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02-11-2013, 02:52 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Dacop View Post
I think your assumption is way too high. Swiss key players earn around 550'000 to 600'000. Zug is not known for high salaries (compared with Bern, Lugano etc.). I think CHF 500'000 p.a. Before tax is realistic.
I guess we've had some millionaires lately in the NLA. Diaz earned around 600k in his last year with EV Zug. But as you mentioned Diaz was an exception rather than the rule.

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02-11-2013, 03:05 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Dacop View Post
I think your assumption is way too high. Swiss key players earn around 550'000 to 600'000. Zug is not known for high salaries (compared with Bern, Lugano etc.). I think CHF 500'000 p.a. Before tax is realistic.
Yep, could be. I was thinking about Dube who got smt like 700k when playing for bern. And if I'm not wrong Romy got 600k while playing in Lugano.
But i agree, those are rather the exceptions.

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02-11-2013, 03:07 PM
  #224
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Hes got more goals than any leading rookie this year, not bad for a first season in North America...

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02-11-2013, 03:11 PM
  #225
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So many reasons why Brunner is a better fit than Hudler for our top6. But no need to bash happy huds for that. Just vastly different play styles.

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