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Brian Boyle (The "He just plain sucks" Edition)

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:54 AM
  #101
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Consider this -- Paul Gaustad fetched a 1st rounder.

Similar players.

I mean, if you get offered a 1st or 2nd rounder for Brian Boyle, you take that and run, no matter if it depletes your playoff depth by a hair.

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02-11-2013, 09:54 AM
  #102
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I like Boyle a lot. I don't want him to be trade but I do want him to preform closer to last year. This year has not been good. His only really decent preformance this year was against the Flyers in the game we won and the first half of the Tampa game. It was weird they scratched him after Tampa and not before. I thought he played really well the first half of that game. JT was the kid i was saying would outshine Kreider EVENTUALLY i am nervous seeing him in the NHL right now but he is doing it. Playing hard. Didnt have the best performance last night but not a bad one either. Will be interested what happens after the next islander game when they have to finally decide to keep JT or send him down.

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02-11-2013, 09:54 AM
  #103
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I agree 100%. The guy should be a very good 4th liner, right now, our 4th line just has good chemistry.
This. Boyle's a very good 4th liner and will be useful down the stretch. Anyone judging the situation based on the last 2 games clearly forgot how big a part of our first place team he was last season and how vital he was in the playoffs when we made it 2 games from the Stanley Cup.

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02-11-2013, 09:58 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Consider this -- Paul Gaustad fetched a 1st rounder.

Similar players.

I mean, if you get offered a 1st or 2nd rounder for Brian Boyle, you take that and run, no matter if it depletes your playoff depth by a hair.
Gaustad is one of the best faceoff guys in the league every year, and is a legitimate heavyweight. He's far nastier than Boyle. Besides, most would agree that Nashville over-payed on that deal.

If it comes down to it, a Boyle trade should only be done if it makes us better in the short term. A draft pick doesn't do that.

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02-11-2013, 10:09 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Gaustad is one of the best faceoff guys in the league every year, and is a legitimate heavyweight. He's far nastier than Boyle. Besides, most would agree that Nashville over-payed on that deal.

If it comes down to it, a Boyle trade should only be done if it makes us better in the short term. A draft pick doesn't do that.
Gaustad is a better fighter than Boyle, but he is not a heavyweight at all. I wouldn't even put him in Prust's class. His balance is awful.

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02-11-2013, 10:20 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Gaustad is one of the best faceoff guys in the league every year, and is a legitimate heavyweight. He's far nastier than Boyle. Besides, most would agree that Nashville over-payed on that deal.

If it comes down to it, a Boyle trade should only be done if it makes us better in the short term. A draft pick doesn't do that.
Are they not big-bodied checking centers?

Nice of you to leave out the fact that Boyle has somehow outproduced Gaustad in goals and points the last two seasons, and blocks twice as many shots.

It equals out. Desperate teams like to add "grit" and checkers to stock up for either a Cup or playoff run. Everybody tends to overpay at or around the deadline.

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02-11-2013, 10:40 AM
  #107
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1. Complain about lack of depth

2. Get depth

3. Trade depth away

Do I have this about right regarding where this discussion is going?

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Old
02-11-2013, 10:47 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
1. Complain about lack of depth

2. Get depth

3. Trade depth away

Do I have this about right regarding where this discussion is going?
Sounds about right.

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02-11-2013, 10:52 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Gaustad is one of the best faceoff guys in the league every year, and is a legitimate heavyweight. He's far nastier than Boyle. Besides, most would agree that Nashville over-payed on that deal.

If it comes down to it, a Boyle trade should only be done if it makes us better in the short term. A draft pick doesn't do that.
The draft pick could be flipped at the deadline.

If the organization is confident with Richards, Stepan, Miller and Halpern down the middle for the year there is no point in keeping Boyle in the press box. So if the right deal comes, they should make it. Otherwise find a spot for him in the wing.

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Old
02-11-2013, 10:57 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
1. Complain about lack of depth

2. Get depth

3. Trade depth away

Do I have this about right regarding where this discussion is going?


Its a roll of the dice. You get offered a 1st or 2nd rounder for Boyle you take it and go into the playoffs with what you have.

They went into the playoffs last season with one spare forward. If they keep the current roster for the playoffs and trade Boyle, they'll have one spare forward.

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02-11-2013, 11:01 AM
  #111
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Boyles a good player and a good soldier...we should keep him around

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02-11-2013, 11:17 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
This. Boyle's a very good 4th liner and will be useful down the stretch. Anyone judging the situation based on the last 2 games clearly forgot how big a part of our first place team he was last season and how vital he was in the playoffs when we made it 2 games from the Stanley Cup.
Most people are not judging based on two games; although there is a clear difference with the way our new 4th line pressures the opposition and doesn't spend so much time bogged down in our zone. We will see if that continues against different competition.

But let's not blow out of proportion Brian's contribution. He played well against Ottawa; not great. He scored some which raised people's opinion of his play but he still mishandled pucks more often than not; failed to clear pucks which led to a shot blocking clinic by the entire team and was as guilty as anyone is our difficulty getting into the offensive zone. After he came back from his injury he was not good at all. And hasn't been since. As a 4th liner he is fine, but we may be witnessing that he is easily replaced and that it is not that difficult to appear to be a PK specialist with Hank and our top 4 D behind you.

I've always felt that his PK accolades were overdone. His faceoffs are good; not great. His quickness is non existent (he takes forever to change direction; you can see how having Cally, Powe and Hags on the PK really changes things) and his puck skills and success in 50/50 battles are weak. But he does block shots and he does break up passes with his long reach. So, he's a good penalty killer but not great by any means.

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02-11-2013, 11:35 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Most people are not judging based on two games; although there is a clear difference with the way our new 4th line pressures the opposition and doesn't spend so much time bogged down in our zone. We will see if that continues against different competition.

But let's not blow out of proportion Brian's contribution. He played well against Ottawa; not great. He scored some which raised people's opinion of his play but he still mishandled pucks more often than not; failed to clear pucks which led to a shot blocking clinic by the entire team and was as guilty as anyone is our difficulty getting into the offensive zone. After he came back from his injury he was not good at all. And hasn't been since. As a 4th liner he is fine, but we may be witnessing that he is easily replaced and that it is not that difficult to appear to be a PK specialist with Hank and our top 4 D behind you.

I've always felt that his PK accolades were overdone. His faceoffs are good; not great. His quickness is non existent (he takes forever to change direction; you can see how having Cally, Powe and Hags on the PK really changes things) and his puck skills and success in 50/50 battles are weak. But he does block shots and he does break up passes with his long reach. So, he's a good penalty killer but not great by any means.
I know you're the biggest Boyle hater, so you're opinion is biased, whether you'll admit it or not.

And yes, the 4th line has had two good games. Anyone judging, is basing it off two games, since Powe has only been on the team for two games. It's literally impossible to base it on anything more than that.

If you can't understand the value that Boyle has and i sure as hell don't base it on the few goals he scored at the end of last season, then having a discussion is moot.

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:51 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Most people are not judging based on two games; although there is a clear difference with the way our new 4th line pressures the opposition and doesn't spend so much time bogged down in our zone. We will see if that continues against different competition.

But let's not blow out of proportion Brian's contribution. He played well against Ottawa; not great. He scored some which raised people's opinion of his play but he still mishandled pucks more often than not; failed to clear pucks which led to a shot blocking clinic by the entire team and was as guilty as anyone is our difficulty getting into the offensive zone. After he came back from his injury he was not good at all. And hasn't been since. As a 4th liner he is fine, but we may be witnessing that he is easily replaced and that it is not that difficult to appear to be a PK specialist with Hank and our top 4 D behind you.

I've always felt that his PK accolades were overdone. His faceoffs are good; not great. His quickness is non existent (he takes forever to change direction; you can see how having Cally, Powe and Hags on the PK really changes things) and his puck skills and success in 50/50 battles are weak. But he does block shots and he does break up passes with his long reach. So, he's a good penalty killer but not great by any means.
I look at it this way -- if you watch a Rangers game on mute or on CBC (if youre lucky), and you are an objective hockey fan, you will not be impressed with Boyle unless its a very specific game situation like a faceoff of a PK -- and not every one.

Someone on this board compared him to Joel Otto last year. Proof that Micheletti is a member around these parts.

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02-11-2013, 12:02 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
I know you're the biggest Boyle hater, so you're opinion is biased, whether you'll admit it or not.

And yes, the 4th line has had two good games. Anyone judging, is basing it off two games, since Powe has only been on the team for two games. It's literally impossible to base it on anything more than that.

If you can't understand the value that Boyle has and i sure as hell don't base it on the few goals he scored at the end of last season, then having a discussion is moot.
I'm not a hater. Based on what I see him do I can label you as having a man crush and not being objective in any way. What part of my evaluation is off the mark? Is he good in the trenches? Does he handle the puck well? Is he excellent of faceoffs? Is he quick to change direction? Instead of telling me how good he is tell me what he does well. And not "he's a shutdown center" or "he's a defensive standout". Those statement are all very subjective. Now to be fair so are the things I am saying but I don't see you disputing my assessment except to say that I don't like him. I like all Rangers. But I can be disappointed by their play. that's what's happening here.

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02-11-2013, 12:23 PM
  #116
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With Halpern being 36 years old, Boyle is a good asset to keep for 4C. This is a tough schedule and the playoffs will take their toll on Halpern.
I won't be surprised to see Boyle tomorrow instead of Halpern.

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02-11-2013, 12:34 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I'm not a hater. Based on what I see him do I can label you as having a man crush and not being objective in any way. What part of my evaluation is off the mark? Is he good in the trenches? Does he handle the puck well? Is he excellent of faceoffs? Is he quick to change direction? Instead of telling me how good he is tell me what he does well. And not "he's a shutdown center" or "he's a defensive standout". Those statement are all very subjective. Now to be fair so are the things I am saying but I don't see you disputing my assessment except to say that I don't like him. I like all Rangers. But I can be disappointed by their play. that's what's happening here.
He is good at faceoffs (something this team needs)
He throws the body
He can play against other teams top lines and be effective
he is good along the boards
strong on the puck
Good Penalty Killer
Can chip in offensively for a fourth liner

What i think a lot of people are missing, is since joining the rangers, Boyle has been playing more than a third line role, because our depth has not been great. With the emergence of kreider and more recently Miller, Boyle can now go to his rightful place on the fourth line, where he can be an invaluable asset. I'm not one to mess with chemistry, so right now, things should be left the way they are, but to act like boyle is worthless is ridiculous. Or that he should be dumped for a 3rd/4th rounder is even worse. Last week you called him an AHL player, which makes me doubt your view on the game completely.

I've been disappointed in Boyle's play this season, because it hasn't been up to par. But having watched him for 2+ seasons, i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will come back to his form.

And if you think his play in the ottawa series was overrated because of the few goals he scored, then you need to go re-watch those games. I went to the games and re-watched them after i got back home, at many points, he was the only guy who seemed to be trying. He was throwing huge hits and playing great defensively, while providing offense and taking nearly all of our important faceoffs.

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02-11-2013, 12:36 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I'm not a hater. Based on what I see him do I can label you as having a man crush and not being objective in any way. What part of my evaluation is off the mark? Is he good in the trenches? Does he handle the puck well? Is he excellent of faceoffs? Is he quick to change direction? Instead of telling me how good he is tell me what he does well. And not "he's a shutdown center" or "he's a defensive standout". Those statement are all very subjective. Now to be fair so are the things I am saying but I don't see you disputing my assessment except to say that I don't like him. I like all Rangers. But I can be disappointed by their play. that's what's happening here.
Seriously... trolling. But I'll bite anyway.

Last year, in 1017 minutes of play, he was on the ice for only 38 goals all season drawing some of the toughest matchups. Only 28.8% of his shifts began in the offensive zone. One goal every 26 minutes. Patrice Bergeron, the Selke Winner, was on the ice for 34 ES goals in 1154 minutes of playing time, also against tough competition. 47.6% of his starts in the offensive zone. One goal every 34 minutes.

Boyle was on the ice for only 10 goals against short handed in 163 minutes of penalty killing time. Compare that to Patrice Bergeron's 17 goals against in 146 minutes of pk time.

Boyle's defensive statistics are comparable to Bergeron's, although Bergeron is obviously the far superior all around player, which is who the Selke typically will go to. I'm just focusing on defense here. Objective stats say that Boyle is a standout defensive center.

I'm not a fan of Boyle as a third line player, but that doesn't mean I don't see where his value lies.

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02-11-2013, 12:37 PM
  #119
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He has absolutely no place on this team right now.

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02-11-2013, 12:37 PM
  #120
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He has absolutely no place on this team right now.
Not that i want us to lose another game, ever, but once they lose a couple in a row, will see about that. How quickly people forget.

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02-11-2013, 12:40 PM
  #121
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Not that i want us to lose another game, ever, but once they lose a couple in a row, will see about that. How quickly people forget.
Even if we lose a couple, unless either our PK or 4th line has a meltdown, I don't see him getting any playing time.

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02-11-2013, 12:43 PM
  #122
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Not that i want us to lose another game, ever, but once they lose a couple in a row, will see about that. How quickly people forget.
Exactly...

The team will lose a game or two in the future believe it or not. And when they do, they won't look very good and then Boyle is going to get another shot.

I like Boyle... He deserved to sit but he'll figure it out and has been a very good player for this team. He's great in the lockeroom and that does mean something no matter how it contradicts the video game mentality.

And to disagree with something above, Guastad is not a legit heavyweight on any planet... He's a better fighter than Boyle but so are a lot of people.

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02-11-2013, 12:44 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
He is good at faceoffs (something this team needs)
He throws the body
He can play against other teams top lines and be effective
he is good along the boards
strong on the puck
Good Penalty Killer
Can chip in offensively for a fourth liner

What i think a lot of people are missing, is since joining the rangers, Boyle has been playing more than a third line role, because our depth has not been great. With the emergence of kreider and more recently Miller, Boyle can now go to his rightful place on the fourth line, where he can be an invaluable asset. I'm not one to mess with chemistry, so right now, things should be left the way they are, but to act like boyle is worthless is ridiculous. Or that he should be dumped for a 3rd/4th rounder is even worse. Last week you called him an AHL player, which makes me doubt your view on the game completely.

I've been disappointed in Boyle's play this season, because it hasn't been up to par. But having watched him for 2+ seasons, i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will come back to his form.

And if you think his play in the ottawa series was overrated because of the few goals he scored, then you need to go re-watch those games. I went to the games and re-watched them after i got back home, at many points, he was the only guy who seemed to be trying. He was throwing huge hits and playing great defensively, while providing offense and taking nearly all of our important faceoffs.
I don't believe I said he was an AHL player. I believe I said he has AHL puck skills, which is different and I stand by that. As for the bolded above I completely disagree with you and this probably explains our differing thoughts on BB. I think he is too soft on the puck, causing turnovers which leads to us chasing. This chasing leads often to penalties and on the plus side for BB, blocked shots opportunities. As others have said over and over, he is easily knocked off the puck and off his feet. His board work never leads to anything except time off the clock and normally is a turnover waiting to happen because he doesn't come off the boards and move the puck to a teammate. He just doesn't.

I also think that watching Ranger games on TV will give you an overly positive view of BB as Joe and Sam gush over him but never report on his lost draws that lead to goals or turnovers that lead to scoring chances against or missed opportunites in the O-zone due his poor handling of the puck. I too was at all home playoff games last year and I saw a different performance

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02-11-2013, 12:47 PM
  #124
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I think the Rangers should keep BB around. He has shown some good things in the past

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02-11-2013, 12:47 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I don't believe I said he was an AHL player. I believe I said he has AHL puck skills, which is different and I stand by that. As for the bolded above I completely disagree with you and this probably explains our differing thoughts on BB. I think he is too soft on the puck, causing turnovers which leads to us chasing. This chasing leads often to penalties and on the plus side for BB, blocked shots opportunities. As others have said over and over, he is easily knocked off the puck and off his feet. His board work never leads to anything except time off the clock and normally is a turnover waiting to happen because he doesn't come off the boards and move the puck to a teammate. He just doesn't.

I also think that watching Ranger games on TV will give you an overly positive view of BB as Joe and Sam gush over him but never report on his lost draws that lead to goals or turnovers that lead to scoring chances against or missed opportunites in the O-zone due his poor handling of the puck. I too was at all home playoff games last year and I saw a different performance
If that's the case, why over the off-season were there quite a few teams fans who specifically were asking about acquiring Boyle?

He does the little things that win games and aren't flashy. Every team needs those guys. Fedotenko is a similar style of player. They seem to do well in the playoffs when there is less space and the simple plays normally create chances.

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