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Derick Brassard Available?

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Old
02-11-2013, 01:46 PM
  #26
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Stafford better stats but Brassard better contract...Not a bad deal at all. If anything, Buffalo gives a low 6th. for balance.
I'll give a "high" 6th if it helps

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02-11-2013, 01:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I was assuming the latter. Trading any of the 1sts makes no sense for Columbus.
Strongly disagree. Look at most draft years, and about half the picks in the range we're likley talking about (15-25th'ish) don't have significant NHL careers. ROR is a legit NHL'er, and is only 21 YO. IMO, it's a very significant upgrade from Brassard to ROR, and if the cost of that is a mid-late 1st round DP - that's an easy deal to make. At least - it would be a deal that CLM should consider IMO.

I definetely agree that CLM shouldn't move one of the 1st unless a potential core players is coming back in the deal. That being said, I think that ROR would likely be a "core" player, which is a lot better return over the long term than some of the other guys mentioned (Stafford, Cole, etc).

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02-11-2013, 01:55 PM
  #28
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Cole (retaining 1M) and a second for Brassard? I'd definitely pull the trigger on that.

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02-11-2013, 01:57 PM
  #29
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To Edmonton: Derrick Brassard, John Moore
To Columbus: Ales Hemsky + pick

Hall - RNH - Eberle
UFA - Gagner - Yakupov
Hartikainen - Brassard - Jones

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02-11-2013, 01:59 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Strongly disagree. Look at most draft years, and about half the picks in the range we're likley talking about (15-25th'ish) don't have significant NHL careers. ROR is a legit NHL'er, and is only 21 YO. IMO, it's a very significant upgrade from Brassard to ROR, and if the cost of that is a mid-late 1st round DP - that's an easy deal to make. At least - it would be a deal that CLM should consider IMO.

I definetely agree that CLM shouldn't move one of the 1st unless a potential core players is coming back in the deal. That being said, I think that ROR would likely be a "core" player, which is a lot better return over the long term than some of the other guys mentioned (Stafford, Cole, etc).
I was under the impression we were talking about a higher range than that and otherwise Colorado wouldn't go for it. If we're talking mid-to-late 1st, that's actually worth thinking about.

That said, one of our big bugaboos is that there's a bit too much youth over here in the forward corps - and our plans with the draft means that's not about to change anytime soon. Thus the interest in guys like Stafford and particularly Cole.

There is, of course, also the standard worries about the sustainability of RoR's point production.

* * *
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needles View Post
To Edmonton: Derrick Brassard, John Moore
To Columbus: Ales Hemsky + pick

Hall - RNH - Eberle
UFA - Gagner - Yakupov
Hartikainen - Brassard - Jones
Not unless the pick is a 1st or something equally ridiculous. Moore is one of the blueline starters next year. No point in getting rid of him. Particularly with [insert standard "Hemsky is injury-prone and slumping" spiel here]

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:05 PM
  #31
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I would definitely not give up Hemsky!

His stats looks identical to Gagner, but he's a tiny bit bigger. Average/Bad faceoffs. I'd enjoy him on our 3rd or 4th line to replace Horcoff once he leaves.

I'd offer MPS + 3rd rounder

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02-11-2013, 02:06 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Not unless the pick is a 1st or something equally ridiculous. Moore is one of the blueline starters next year. No point in getting rid of him. Particularly with [insert standard "Hemsky is injury-prone and slumping" spiel here]
I could settle for some one else. Tim Erixon perhaps? But you're not getting the 1st rounder.

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02-11-2013, 02:06 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I would definitely not give up Hemsky!

His stats looks identical to Gagner, but a bit bigger. Average/Bad faceoffs. I'd enjoy him on our 3rd or 4th line to replace Horcoff once he leaves.

I'd offer MPS + 3rd rounder
To which we *cough* politely decline and move on.

* * *
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Originally Posted by Needles View Post
I could settle for some one else. Tim Erixon perhaps?
Still doesn't do much for us. Brassard and [pick-any-blueline-kid] are some of our most valuable mobile assets; sending both away for Hemsky and a pick just doesn't do much for Columbus. Need more of a tangible upgrade or much better futures.

Frankly, Hemsky is not exactly of strong interest here. He doesn't fit the planned Jackets style all that well. His contract also rather screws things up - we'd probably ask for retained salary.

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02-11-2013, 02:10 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Which is ironic since your name sake will the person the Jackets would be interested in.
Ottawa would never trade Silfverberg for Brassard. They would look at Brassard as a player to help out while Spezza is out and hopefully fit with MacLean's system (although I personally have my doubts).

The best you could hope for is something like Bishop + Puempel - and even that's a lot to pay for a tweener like Brassard.

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02-11-2013, 02:12 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Ottawa would never trade Silfverberg for Brassard. They would look at Brassard as a player to help out while Spezza is out and hopefully fit with MacLean's system (although I personally have my doubts).

The best you could hope for is something like Bishop + Puempel - and even that's a lot to pay for a tweener like Brassard.
Understandable. But that just means there's no deal to be had.

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
To which we *cough* politely decline and move on.

* * *

I'm curious as to what you're expecting from a sub-par face off center with a sporatic history of offense.

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02-11-2013, 02:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Understandable. But that just means there's no deal to be had.
I'm not sure about that. The BJs are in excellent position going forward, I'm actually quite a fan of the team - not sure why, I guess because we've had good trade negotiations in the past.

I think they want to purge themselves of this kid once and for all, likely because he doesn't fit the mould of player they want to bring in. I can buy into that and it makes me nervous thinking that we might try to acquire him. I think the BJs would ideally like a 1st rounder or an NHL ready player, but a 'higher tiered' prospect + a solid, young goaltender might be the ticket. Perhaps Ottawa has to add a piece here or there, but I'm sure deep down BJ fans know that Brassard's value has tailed off a lot - and that there still might be a deal made even though that's happened.

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02-11-2013, 02:27 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I'm curious as to what you're expecting from a sub-par face off center with a sporatic history of offense.
Um. This is us trading Brassard, not y'all trading Gagner.

Seriously, the "denigrate the player you're trying to get to justify low-balling" act gets really old really fast.

* * *
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I'm not sure about that. The BJs are in excellent position going forward, I'm actually quite a fan of the team - not sure why, I guess because we've had good trade negotiations in the past.

I think they want to purge themselves of this kid once and for all, likely because he doesn't fit the mould of player they want to bring in. I can buy into that and it makes me nervous thinking that we might try to acquire him. I think the BJs would ideally like a 1st rounder or an NHL ready player, but a 'higher tiered' prospect + a solid, young goaltender might be the ticket. Perhaps Ottawa has to add a piece here or there, but I'm sure deep down BJ fans know that Brassard's value has tailed off a lot - and that there still might be a deal made even though that's happened.
Part of the issue with this analysis is the presumption that we have any interest in goaltending other than "proven NHL starter." We have lots of goaltenders, but none of them are consistent starters.

Personally, I'm looking more for someone who can shield the kids as they grow, rather than MOAR PROSPECTS (because Brass's value for such things is going to be low, as stated). Other CBJ fans might disagree.

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02-11-2013, 02:31 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Part of the issue with this analysis is the presumption that we have any interest in goaltending other than "proven NHL starter." We have lots of goaltenders, but none of them are consistent starters.

Personally, I'm looking more for someone who can shield the kids as they grow, rather than MOAR PROSPECTS (because Brass's value for such things is going to be low, as stated). Other CBJ fans might disagree.
I agree with the goaltending analysis...not sure what to say. Perhaps you're right, it would have to be a prospect and an NHL player. It's rather unfortunate Peter Regin can't stay healthy, he'd be perfect. A cheap Vermette replacement (with less offense) so the BJs can assess him and see if he's the kind of player they want + Puempel/other prospect + perhaps a pick.

But, this would be selling low on Brassard...which is what I think C-Bus will end up doing just to clear the slate - and some $$ too.

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02-11-2013, 02:34 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Um. This is us trading Brassard, not y'all trading Gagner.

Seriously, the "denigrate the player you're trying to get to justify low-balling" act gets really old really fast.

* * *
No seriously. What are you expecting? And I'd actually place Gagner miles ahead of Brassard but that's another story.

Maybe we should just offer Hall, Eberle, 1st and get it over with.

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02-11-2013, 02:36 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I agree with the goaltending analysis...not sure what to say. Perhaps you're right, it would have to be a prospect and an NHL player. It's rather unfortunate Peter Regin can't stay healthy, he'd be perfect. A cheap Vermette replacement (with less offense) so the BJs can assess him and see if he's the kind of player they want + Puempel/other prospect + perhaps a pick.

But, this would be selling low on Brassard...which is what I think C-Bus will end up doing just to clear the slate - and some $$ too.
Enh. We already have our "Vermette with less offense" in Letestu. And we'd prefer not to sell any lower than we kind of already are.

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02-11-2013, 02:38 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
Even Edmonton fans have to concede Hemsky is the most offered player by ANY TEAM on any thread on this site.
So? Does that mean he hasn't any value?

Why I get the feeling nowadays that if Edmonton wanted Hal Gill, the only reasonable offer around here would be Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov/J.Schultz + 1st

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02-11-2013, 02:43 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
No seriously. What are you expecting? And I'd actually place Gagner miles ahead of Brassard but that's another story.
I have them about equal, but meh.

What I'm looking for, as previously stated, are guys who can shield the kids we have and will add during the draft while they develop. Therefore, I'd be looking for an older finishing winger type. The closest the Oilers have to that is Hemsky, and his injury history renders him sort of "ennnhh... maybe." There's better options available to us.


As to why the MPS/3rd offer was bad... for one, additional left wingers are one of the last things we need. For another, MPS is not someone we have much confidence in w/r/t NHL ability. And his contract expires this year, so he's due a raise and more term than we'd likely be able to take on. It's sensible only if we think he's going to be worthwhile long-term... and that's not looking all that likely.

Even so, that'd be at least worth thinking about if we were getting a higher pick back. But a 3rd? No thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Maybe we should just offer Hall, Eberle, 1st and get it over with.
Your martyr complex is noted and discarded as irrelevant. Nobody's mentioned anything of the sort. If the pieces aren't there the conclusion isn't "well, we have to step up and ask for one of the Big Four", it's "no deal, time to move on."

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:43 PM
  #44
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The only entertaining offer in this thread is the RoR for Brassard and a 1st. Not the LA first as that is going to be better than NYR. Remember there's no guarantee RoR would sign with Columbus.

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02-11-2013, 02:47 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Needles View Post
So? Does that mean he hasn't any value?

Why I get the feeling nowadays that if Edmonton wanted Hal Gill, the only reasonable offer around here would be Hall/RNH/Eberle/Yakupov/J.Schultz + 1st
Enough with the damn hyperbole bc CBJ fans would like to not get reamed by the ****** trade proposals being discussed.

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02-11-2013, 02:47 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
The only entertaining offer in this thread is the RoR for Brassard and a 1st. Not the LA first as that is going to be better than NYR. Remember there's no guarantee RoR would sign with Columbus.
I dunno, I see lots of offers that are "entertaining".

Also a few more that are worthwhile IMO, but I think we're required by law to disagree at least 50% of the time.

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02-11-2013, 02:48 PM
  #47
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would make sense for the Flames to be in on Brassard. He would be given a chance to play with good wingers (not that he deserves it necessarily - Jacket fans deserve a better effort).

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02-11-2013, 02:51 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Gagnefan924 View Post
The only entertaining offer in this thread is the RoR for Brassard and a 1st. Not the LA first as that is going to be better than NYR. Remember there's no guarantee RoR would sign with Columbus.
Would hate it for the Avs. Draft is top heavy and ROR is just way better than Brassard.

But it looks like Brassard is on the list of long term targets by our (stupid?) GM. So maybe we will have interest in him.

I don't know much about John Moore but I kind of liked him when I saw him play. Would he be a piece (might want more) you would be willing to give up to balance a ROR for Brassard swap and how is he doing in general?

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02-11-2013, 02:54 PM
  #49
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I don't really see a team trading what Columbus will want. Bassard was a 6th overall pick. I don't think the GM wants egg on his face for moving him without getting some value back. He would be the 3rd 4th center on most teams not like he is a hot commodity. This would basically be a "we're done with you" trade.

Its not like he has a bad contract, its just that Columbus does not have a legit first or second center so they are trying to play Bassard in a role he is not cut out for. Who knows maybe if he did have better linemates/coaching but I doubt it. If he hasn't broken out by now I think the likelyhood is slim that he is a legit top 6 forward.

When I watch Bassard I am not seeing a player that is a 1st or 2nd center trying to get off a bad team. I see a 3rd or 4th center that is being shooed into a top role for lack of a better option.

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02-11-2013, 02:55 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I dunno, I see lots of offers that are "entertaining".

Also a few more that are worthwhile IMO, but I think we're required by law to disagree at least 50% of the time.
Well that's ok

Some of the names have left me with a "meh" feeling. Stafford wouldn't be horrible but really he's nothing more than a secondary scorer that will be put on our top line and expected to produce. I don't think he'd break 50 points on Columbus. I rather package Brass and another young dman for someone more reliable.

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