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The utter nonsense of blaming anyone but Steve Tambellini.

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Old
02-11-2013, 04:21 PM
  #26
Gord
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Originally Posted by missinthejets View Post
and this is why they talked about it being a 5 year process... but some people didn't listen to them and expected different results? The veterans not being good enough was the reason this team hit the skids like it did. Sure they could make some moves to follow a different plan, but they clearly intend on following their original plan and putting up with the growing pains of the young players.
just because the "plan" became waiting for the young, high draft picks to mature, doesn't mean you don't have to do anything to help the team in the short term.
when there are players out for the season and you have to ice an AHL defense, the plan didn't say you couldn't bring in help.
If you have 3 of 4 players at centre hurt, following the plan doesn't mean you can't bring in someone when it's obvious you can't just plug Ryan Smyth in there.

"the plan" is nice but reality dictates you have to make some adjustments as you go along.

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02-11-2013, 04:24 PM
  #27
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Fine. Blame Tambo. Fire Tambo tomorrow. Break out the party streamers.

5 minutes after that firing, Craig MacTavish or Kevin Lowe is your new GM, both of which were vilified ruthlessly by fans around here during their tenures as coach and GM respectively for their incompetence and nepotism.

The issues facing this organization are a lot more daunting than the letting go of a lame duck (some would say puppet) GM would fix.

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02-11-2013, 04:28 PM
  #28
Tad Mikowsky
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People are incredibly narrow sighted.

Sure, point out all the flaws. Sure, lets clean house. Who replaces them? Never hear that.

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02-11-2013, 04:33 PM
  #29
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Management's record of veteran acquisitions is gawdawful. Completely agree with OP.

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02-11-2013, 04:35 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
People are incredibly narrow sighted.

Sure, point out all the flaws. Sure, lets clean house. Who replaces them? Never hear that.
Most people were screaming to or three years ago to get rid of the old and go after high draft picks. Now that we have em, see above posts. Not all.

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02-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
just because the "plan" became waiting for the young, high draft picks to mature, doesn't mean you don't have to do anything to help the team in the short term.
when there are players out for the season and you have to ice an AHL defense, the plan didn't say you couldn't bring in help.
If you have 3 of 4 players at centre hurt, following the plan doesn't mean you can't bring in someone when it's obvious you can't just plug Ryan Smyth in there.

"the plan" is nice but reality dictates you have to make some adjustments as you go along.

yeah but the key is to do it if the cost makes sense. A big part of what Tambellini was supposed to do is restock the farm and to do that trading picks and prospects was not going to happen, and if the veterans were good enough to get capable pieces back then the team wouldn't have been in the position it was when they blew it all up. A big part of the first few years really was clear out some trash and don't give away futures and see where we stand in a couple years. Now that it's pretty evident who the team is going to be built around I think it is reasonable to expect some more moves made targetting specific areas but I think it is simple impatience to expect it done RFN.

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02-11-2013, 04:53 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Unfortunately for the 5 year process guys (Lowe said that not Tambo if I recall) very rarely is a team garbage for 5 years and then a contender in year 6. Generally you are garbage for a couple of years, perhaps come close to the playoffs, make the playoffs, perhaps are ready to do some damage.

but there's been improvements made. Yeah they only went up one spot in the standings last season but there were a lot more subtle changes made and the team was much more competitive. This year they've been competitive as well and that's with a lot of players playing below the level they were expected to play. No one is saying a switch is going to magically flip and the team will go from **** to good but the team is already getting better in some aspects, apparently it's just not as fast or obvious as some people want it to be. I think especially with this short season and weird schedule that it's perhaps not the best time to actually judge where a team is in the grand scheme of things.

You will likely write this off as simple excuse making though, which is fine, the people who want results now just want moves made to improve the team no matter what and don't really care for underlying reasons or patience from management, difference of opinion nothing more. The GM of this team is very patient though (to a fault? maybe) so I don't think it's fair to jump on him for not being free wheeling when there is clearly a desire within the organization for that kind of patience.

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02-11-2013, 05:03 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
most of it should be on tambo. he's the mastermind that has put this team together.
If he brought in players that can't do the job, it's his fault.
if there are injuries or Tambo has too many crappy players being put on the ice, it's his job to do something about it. he does nothing.

but 3 shots in the last 30 minutues against the worst team in the league and lucking out a win? (and that quality of play has been the norm this year, just like the last 5 years)
why shouldn't Tambo get the blame?
he built the house. don't throw the blame on the shoddy construction towards the people renting it.
A stat like that falls solely on the players. Only blind hatred towards Tambo would place blame on his shoulders.

Tambo is on thin ice, and I'm by no means defending him, but to argue our lack of shots last game is his fault is stupid.

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02-11-2013, 05:04 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
People are incredibly narrow sighted.

Sure, point out all the flaws. Sure, lets clean house. Who replaces them? Never hear that.
Never bring in the rational argument to a discussion dictated by the emotional needs of the fustrated to find and pin blame on someone for their suffering.

You'll just get shouted down as an apologist

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02-11-2013, 05:04 PM
  #35
SeriousBusiness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
People are incredibly narrow sighted.

Sure, point out all the flaws. Sure, lets clean house. Who replaces them? Never hear that.
That's the problem. I was trying to get posters to offer up trade suggestions last night in the PGT but no one was willing to do so.

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02-11-2013, 05:06 PM
  #36
peck420
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Let's all blame Tambellini!

Goal Differentials:
2008-2009: -16
Bomb!...Start Rebuild
2009-2010: -72
2010-2011: -69
2011-2012: -25
2013: -2 (on pace for -8)

We aren't getting any better at all!

It's not that we aren't getting better, we are...most just never realised how bad we were to begin with.

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:07 PM
  #37
flashy
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While some of the points here are apparent, I honestly don't think you give coaching a free pass here.

One player you look at is Eric Belanger.

He's brought in here to provide a veteran presence, win face-offs, shutdown the scoring lines of other teams and pop in a few here or there. Previously his career stats show he was consistantly a 35-40 point player coming off a 13-27-40 season in Phoenix.

Since being placed in the line-up, he's provided that veteran presence, won faceoffs, blocked shots and scored a massive 4 goals in 87 games played.

Ryan Smyth scored 47 points playing with our top offensive players for the mostpart last season. He's at a 1-1-2 point total in 12 games, relegated to a checking role.

Horcoff was at the same 1-1-2 after 9 games prior to his injury, scoring his lone goal in highlight-reel fashion off of his foot.

There is a systemic flaw when these players consistantly don't score goals in the bottom six. You can call them snake-bitten, you can crucify them, but the problem still remains.

And that problem isn't Steve Tambellini's fault.
It is very strange why almost every acquisition brought here sucks.

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02-11-2013, 05:10 PM
  #38
flashy
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Originally Posted by peck420 View Post
Let's all blame Tambellini!

Goal Differentials:
2008-2009: -16
Bomb!...Start Rebuild
2009-2010: -72
2010-2011: -69
2011-2012: -25
2013: -2 (on pace for -8)

We aren't getting any better at all!

It's not that we aren't getting better, we are...most just never realised how bad we were to begin with.
What did you expect with draft 3 first overalls in a row? that sure as hell isn't a good gm.

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02-11-2013, 05:12 PM
  #39
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I don't get these boards sometimes, Tambo addressed some of the weaknesses that our roster was lacking when we brought in Eric Belanger which was a plus because 2 years ago people would of been happy with fiddler ffs. Then he addressed toughness without moving any of the pieces in the organization by signing Eager, and Hordi, and trading foster for Sutton. This year he added a 6th D-man that adds to again an overall team toughness in Fistric. Its not like this guy isn't trying to help improve our team, how was he suppose to know that some of the pieces didn't pan out for the oilers.

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02-11-2013, 05:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
Fine. Blame Tambo. Fire Tambo tomorrow. Break out the party streamers.

5 minutes after that firing, Craig MacTavish or Kevin Lowe is your new GM, both of which were vilified ruthlessly by fans around here during their tenures as coach and GM respectively for their incompetence and nepotism.

The issues facing this organization are a lot more daunting than the letting go of a lame duck (some would say puppet) GM would fix.
Unfortunately yes, all of it.

Tambo is a figurehead here anyway.

One of the things thats imminently clear in the draft sessions depicted in the Oilers series is how many inputs and how much roundtable must go on here. This isn't even a meeting as much as a convention. I'm shocked actually at how many heads the Oilers involve in these discussions. Very democratic, yes, but also bureaucratic.

When an org is structured like this you wonder how much of the decisions an appointed GM is really making. Right now we have an uber GM, a GM, and an associate GM, probably also a GM in charge of GM's...

If this org is typically slow on the draw, and it is, its because theres a whole lot of chiefs in the house to consult with.

How would they make quick decisions in realtime? I wonder if Tambo even has license and what restrictions to that are defined.

This is an org that has carefully structured methodology and decision making tree for picking guys in the shootout after consultation with deepblue.. This btw being the decision of the goalie coach sitting somewhere analyzing video and not the commanders in chief actually standing on the bench.

This could conceivable lead to situations where a coach knows a player is either feeling it or not feeling it but a decision that is instead made pulled off some observational or stats metric.

Weird decision trees all round in this org. Anyway I digress...


Last edited by Replacement: 02-11-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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Old
02-11-2013, 05:20 PM
  #41
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That's the problem. I was trying to get posters to offer up trade suggestions last night in the PGT but no one was willing to do so.
That's because proposing a trade is a no win scenario.

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:21 PM
  #42
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What did you expect with draft 3 first overalls in a row? that sure as hell isn't a good gm.
What did you expect from a GM that started with nothing? A miracle?

When Tambellini came in, nobody in their right mind was coming to Edmonton. Nobody.

We had crap for a hockey club, crap for facilities, and crap for development.

Fast forward a scant 5 years and we have a blooming team with many young talents, a new arena plus new facilities starting construction...now, if only we could do something about our development programs.

Give it 10-15 years and we are Detroit, but prettier in the summer.

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:21 PM
  #43
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Tambo has definitetly been sleeping at the wheel on a few potential deals. Zach Kassian being the most obvious one, but Steve Downie and Colby Armstrong to name two more.

He seems to be waiting for prospects (Klefbom, Ewanyk, Moroz and Zarkov) to be pros. Don't expect to win in the next 5 years with the current 'big 5'. we will be lucky to have 3 of them left by the time the above prospects are finally ready. I suspect 2 of Hall, Eberle and Yak will be traded to fill holes needed.

they see the core as RNH, J. Schultz, once of Hall/Ebs/Yak, Kelbom, Dubnyk, and they are hoping Ewanyk, Moroz and Zarkov can add size.

Tambo can't make the deal that puts this team over the top. he just drafts and waits. that's it, that's all.

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02-11-2013, 05:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
Tambo has definitetly been sleeping at the wheel on a few potential deals. Zach Kassian being the most obvious one, but Steve Downie and Colby Armstrong to name two more.

He seems to be waiting for prospects (Klefbom, Ewanyk, Moroz and Zarkov) to be pros. Don't expect to win in the next 5 years with the current 'big 5'. we will be lucky to have 3 of them left by the time the above prospects are finally ready. I suspect 2 of Hall, Eberle and Yak will be traded to fill holes needed.

they see the core as RNH, J. Schultz, once of Hall/Ebs/Yak, Kelbom, Dubnyk, and they are hoping Ewanyk, Moroz and Zarkov can add size.

Tambo can't make the deal that puts this team over the top. he just drafts and waits. that's it, that's all.
The Canucks traded Hodgson for Kassian. Outside of the obvious, who do we have that matches Hodgson? Besides, he's playing shotgun with the Sedins. Even Anson Carter put up 30 with those two.

Downie was acquired for a first. End of discussion there.

Colby Armstrong has been garbage since he left the Penguins/Thrashers. He has 9 goals in the last two seasons while playing 79 games. People complain about injuries, but bringing that aboard doesn't really fix the issue, does it?

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02-11-2013, 05:26 PM
  #45
SeriousBusiness
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That's because proposing a trade is a no win scenario.
No, it's a copout.

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:31 PM
  #46
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For the 1,000 th time, KLowe is the problem ... Tambo is an idiot puppet put in place to take the fall for his incompetence. KLowe's arrogance led to the downfall of the organization, and it started with his demand that Comrie pay back his signing bonus. This emotion response negated the trade:

Comrie for Perry, McDonald and a 1st.

The message was KLowe would sewer the organization just to satisfy a personal vendetta. That message was read loud and clear by players and agents league wide. This poison remains with the team today.

Fire KLowe and his puppet Tambo ... both need to go!

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02-11-2013, 05:31 PM
  #47
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is anyone surprised? the two big moves made by the oilers this offseason were pure luck. yakupov and schultz should never have happened.

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02-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #48
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Narnia was right. Edmonton fans couldnt handle a rebuild. Maybe instead of whining why the team isnt a cup contender RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!! you could just be patient and support the team, and let the rebuild, who pretty much everyone was asking for, run its course...........

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #49
Tarus
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While some of the points here are apparent, I honestly don't think you give coaching a free pass here.

One player you look at is Eric Belanger.

He's brought in here to provide a veteran presence, win face-offs, shutdown the scoring lines of other teams and pop in a few here or there. Previously his career stats show he was consistantly a 35-40 point player coming off a 13-27-40 season in Phoenix.

Since being placed in the line-up, he's provided that veteran presence, won faceoffs, blocked shots and scored a massive 4 goals in 87 games played.

Ryan Smyth scored 47 points playing with our top offensive players for the mostpart last season. He's at a 1-1-2 point total in 12 games, relegated to a checking role.

Horcoff was at the same 1-1-2 after 9 games prior to his injury, scoring his lone goal in highlight-reel fashion off of his foot.

There is a systemic flaw when these players consistantly don't score goals in the bottom six. You can call them snake-bitten, you can crucify them, but the problem still remains.

And that problem isn't Steve Tambellini's fault.
Belanger doesn't score anymore because he's getting older, wasn't a front line defensive player in any of his other stops, and doesn't get to play with Shane Doan in Edmonton.

Horcoff/Smyth weren't scoring with prime opportunities last year either, and their tailing off is hardly suprising, or a product of coaching.

In fact, I would say people around around vastly overrate the importance coaching overall. Mact was even on the radio the other day saying exactly the same thing - that there are no bad coaches in the league these days, that the players dictate the outcome, not the coaches, and that media and fans overrate the impact coaching has in today's game. Which probably isn't something the adoring Mact fans around Edmonton want to hear since they've perpetuated this myth that the 06 run was Mact was behind the scenes orchestrating events like a grand-chessmaster, and the players were along for the ride. When in reality Mact was far more a spectator than people want to believe.

But it's easy to see why people want to blame coaching, clinging to ideas that if the lines were just right, or the system was different, or if the coach just bag skated them, then things would be different. Because it's much easier to blame a guy standing off the ice who looks like he is in charge, than it is to blame players out on the ice that your average fan is attempting to live their vicarious fantasies through.

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02-11-2013, 05:33 PM
  #50
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The Canucks traded Hodgson for Kassian. Outside of the obvious, who do we have that matches Hodgson? Besides, he's playing shotgun with the Sedins. Even Anson Carter put up 30 with those two.

Downie was acquired for a first. End of discussion there.

Colby Armstrong has been garbage since he left the Penguins/Thrashers. He has 9 goals in the last two seasons while playing 79 games. People complain about injuries, but bringing that aboard doesn't really fix the issue, does it?
Ok, Armstrong might have been a bad one. but, Gagner is more proven then Hodgson and Gagner + certainly is. could have gotten Downie with our 2nd +. there were valued players available and other teams got them because they went the extra mile. its that simple. Was Tambo even in the loop when these deals went down?

no way your are going to tell he wasn't sleeping.

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