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Larry Brooks on the Thomas Trade

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Old
02-10-2013, 11:47 PM
  #26
redbull
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There are a lot of other ways to lose money and destroy your reputation than owning a hockey team. I truly don't see Wang's angle here. He can't enjoy the losing or being a doormat for a decade and more, can he?

It's impossible to do so much wrong. Statistically, he'd have to get something right, at some point.

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02-11-2013, 03:54 AM
  #27
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There are a lot of other ways to lose money and destroy your reputation than owning a hockey team. I truly don't see Wang's angle here. He can't enjoy the losing or being a doormat for a decade and more, can he?

It's impossible to do so much wrong. Statistically, he'd have to get something right, at some point.
look into the psychology.....buying the team satisfies his ego, but initially served his desire for wealth (land grab - D'Amato had to ask him TWICE and up the ante}.

Now he owns the team and pushes the goodwill.....and his wife's Neulion venture.

His team goes up in value with Brooklyn, though attendance will drop. Fine. But the more pressing is if you look at his behavior at CA....he doesn't care. The emperor has no cloths mantra. His ego is satisfied with his name being mentioned. It shouldn't make sense.

He thinks great things of his work, and that's all that matters, even if we're being laughed at by the Kenyan hockey league.

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02-11-2013, 10:20 AM
  #28
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This is basically the OPPOSITE of an unforced error.
Wow. It's hard to believe a fan would think other fans are so dumb.

The obvious 'unforced error' is to tell your players and your fans that the organization has absolutely no intention of being competitive. I mean, wow. Why not just go ahead and tell Streit and Visnovsky, "Heads up, trades coming"? It's not at all interesting that this move appears specifically engineered to have the ability to shed both salaries? (53 Cap payroll - 4.1 (Streit)-5.6 (Visnovsky) = 43.3 - with replacements we're at the floor again). Not to mention conspiring with Jacobs to circumvent the cap floor, which pisses off the PA.

I mean, come on. Great message this sends your young players. Great message this sends to your leaders. Great message this sends to the fans. What a cluster****.

And people wonder why Nino's agent can go spout off with impunity. Because the franchise does things that are a friggin' joke. Trying to justify it with hokery pokery sucks.

Cheerlessly,

Dan-o

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Old
02-11-2013, 10:25 AM
  #29
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I agree, as every Islander season since the Yashin years goes the same way...fall into last place, stay in last place, dump anyone making alot of money that can get you picks who you arent considering a franchise player. Cant replace them anytime soon? No problem...winning is not priority #1. Like the guy above said, that is the bigger reason Nino asked for a trade, because he can't find himself in a worst situation. Making 60 grand a year for the Islanders AHL team, and best case scenario is sometime he gets to the NHL this year or next year, and then is on a team that comes in last place every year due to DIpietro, Wang,and SNow. Unless you grew up on Long Island...who wouldnt ask for a trade?

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02-11-2013, 10:39 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Wow. It's hard to believe a fan would think other fans are so dumb.

The obvious 'unforced error' is to tell your players and your fans that the organization has absolutely no intention of being competitive. I mean, wow. Why not just go ahead and tell Streit and Visnovsky, "Heads up, trades coming"? It's not at all interesting that this move appears specifically engineered to have the ability to shed both salaries? (53 Cap payroll - 4.1 (Streit)-5.6 (Visnovsky) = 43.3 - with replacements we're at the floor again). Not to mention conspiring with Jacobs to circumvent the cap floor, which pisses off the PA.

I mean, come on. Great message this sends your young players. Great message this sends to your leaders. Great message this sends to the fans. What a cluster****.

And people wonder why Nino's agent can go spout off with impunity. Because the franchise does things that are a friggin' joke. Trying to justify it with hokery pokery sucks.

Cheerlessly,

Dan-o

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Old
02-11-2013, 10:41 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Wow.

The obvious 'unforced error' is to tell your players and your fans that the organization has absolutely no intention of being competitive. I mean, wow. Why not just go ahead and tell Streit and Visnovsky, "Heads up, trades coming"? It's not at all interesting that this move appears specifically engineered to have the ability to shed both salaries? (53 Cap payroll - 4.1 (Streit)-5.6 (Visnovsky) = 43.3 - with replacements we're at the floor again). Not to mention conspiring with Jacobs to circumvent the cap floor, which pisses off the PA.

I mean, come on. Great message this sends your young players. Great message this sends to your leaders. Great message this sends to the fans. What a cluster****.

And people wonder why Nino's agent can go spout off with impunity. Because the franchise does things that are a friggin' joke. Trying to justify it with hokery pokery sucks.

Cheerlessly,

Dan-o


Good post

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:01 AM
  #32
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In fairness, Staple works for a real publication. The Post is the quintessence of the dumbing down of the media and ultimately, America.

I just watched something on ESPN where Lebrun and Melrose both liked the move from the Islanders perspective and loved it for Boston!

So different strokes for different folks. But, yeah, the Post is garbage.
but staple and howie and butch never call the team out on anything. why should i be interested in anything they write or say?

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Wow. It's hard to believe a fan would think other fans are so dumb.

The obvious 'unforced error' is to tell your players and your fans that the organization has absolutely no intention of being competitive. I mean, wow. Why not just go ahead and tell Streit and Visnovsky, "Heads up, trades coming"? It's not at all interesting that this move appears specifically engineered to have the ability to shed both salaries? (53 Cap payroll - 4.1 (Streit)-5.6 (Visnovsky) = 43.3 - with replacements we're at the floor again). Not to mention conspiring with Jacobs to circumvent the cap floor, which pisses off the PA.

I mean, come on. Great message this sends your young players. Great message this sends to your leaders. Great message this sends to the fans. What a cluster****.

And people wonder why Nino's agent can go spout off with impunity. Because the franchise does things that are a friggin' joke. Trying to justify it with hokery pokery sucks.

Cheerlessly,

Dan-o
Every word true.

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Old
02-11-2013, 12:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
look into the psychology.....buying the team satisfies his ego, but initially served his desire for wealth (land grab - D'Amato had to ask him TWICE and up the ante}.

Now he owns the team and pushes the goodwill.....and his wife's Neulion venture.

His team goes up in value with Brooklyn, though attendance will drop. Fine. But the more pressing is if you look at his behavior at CA....he doesn't care. The emperor has no cloths mantra. His ego is satisfied with his name being mentioned. It shouldn't make sense.

He thinks great things of his work, and that's all that matters, even if we're being laughed at by the Kenyan hockey league.
That Neulion thing was actually his and probably put it under his wife's name for tax purposes/financial reasons. He stole the top devs from CA (insider sources that have told me) when he left the company. He is in this purely for business and you do not need a winning hockey team to add return.

It reminds me of when the Ontario Teachers Union owned the Leafs (majority owner). They were only interested in putting up a product that would be consistent enough to make revenue and profits. This wasn't very difficult because people will go to Leaf games no matter what. They never went for the "final piece(s)". The idea was to build a team that would be good enough to draw profit and keep it that way instead of going into a cyclical system of good times and bad.

To be honest, he must be making a killing by owning us. All this secondary business must be rolling in. When you are an owner of a professional team, I think people listen to you more or something. Contracts with the NCAA, NFL, NHL, AHL...geez...he has to be making good money from all this business he gained from owning the Isles.

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:00 PM
  #35
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Wang is going to sell this team. It's only a matter of time. I'll put it by the summer he announces his intention to sell. Since his Lighthouse Project went belly up he's doing everything to decrease his payroll hence boost potential profits from the sale.

It really wasn't much of a secret that his intention buying this team was as a political pawn for the hub project. I'd venture to guess that the next owner (s) will be a conglomerate of people including Bruce Ratner.

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02-11-2013, 02:08 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
look into the psychology.....buying the team satisfies his ego, but initially served his desire for wealth (land grab - D'Amato had to ask him TWICE and up the ante}.

Now he owns the team and pushes the goodwill.....and his wife's Neulion venture.

His team goes up in value with Brooklyn, though attendance will drop. Fine. But the more pressing is if you look at his behavior at CA....he doesn't care. The emperor has no cloths mantra. His ego is satisfied with his name being mentioned. It shouldn't make sense.

He thinks great things of his work, and that's all that matters, even if we're being laughed at by the Kenyan hockey league.
Well, if any of this is true then that's just sad.

I don't see why Bettman would have this guy (continues to have him) as an owner. The guy who refutes Balsille, can't see Phoenix, has a viable hockey market on Long Island that's just being destroyed. I'm sure another owner could make a profit AND show some competency AND pride. The New York market has a lot of billionaires, economy notwithstanding.

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02-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CDirt View Post
Wang is going to sell this team. It's only a matter of time. I'll put it by the summer he announces his intention to sell. Since his Lighthouse Project went belly up he's doing everything to decrease his payroll hence boost potential profits from the sale.

It really wasn't much of a secret that his intention buying this team was as a political pawn for the hub project. I'd venture to guess that the next owner (s) will be a conglomerate of people including Bruce Ratner.
This thought crosses my mind as well.

If he sells I hope he sells completely, and to someone or something that knows not to get involved in operations.

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Old
02-11-2013, 03:28 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CDirt View Post
Wang is going to sell this team. It's only a matter of time. I'll put it by the summer he announces his intention to sell. Since his Lighthouse Project went belly up he's doing everything to decrease his payroll hence boost potential profits from the sale.

It really wasn't much of a secret that his intention buying this team was as a political pawn for the hub project. I'd venture to guess that the next owner (s) will be a conglomerate of people including Bruce Ratner.
Have to agree. Wang was spending some money before the Lighthouse project floundered. With all the back loaded contracts I think he made the decision to sell a couple of years ago and Ratner makes the most sense.

The way the team has been run reminds of stores like Woolworths or McCrorys before they go out of business or are sold. They spend as little money as possible for inventory.

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Old
02-11-2013, 03:35 PM
  #39
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why would we spend money to lose? let's be fair, anyone brought in isn't going to make the team to do a complete 180.

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Old
02-11-2013, 04:03 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Wow. It's hard to believe a fan would think other fans are so dumb.

The obvious 'unforced error' is to tell your players and your fans that the organization has absolutely no intention of being competitive. I mean, wow. Why not just go ahead and tell Streit and Visnovsky, "Heads up, trades coming"? It's not at all interesting that this move appears specifically engineered to have the ability to shed both salaries? (53 Cap payroll - 4.1 (Streit)-5.6 (Visnovsky) = 43.3 - with replacements we're at the floor again). Not to mention conspiring with Jacobs to circumvent the cap floor, which pisses off the PA.

I mean, come on. Great message this sends your young players. Great message this sends to your leaders. Great message this sends to the fans. What a cluster****.

And people wonder why Nino's agent can go spout off with impunity. Because the franchise does things that are a friggin' joke. Trying to justify it with hokery pokery sucks.
You're worried about what message the Tim Thomas trade is sending to the players, fans, PA, other teams, et al about the state of the New York Islanders?

Hahaha..

That message was already SENT.

A LONG TIME AGO.

So, do you have any negative input on the HOCKEY ASSETS portion of the Thomas trade? Because I can't see a down side..

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02-11-2013, 04:12 PM
  #41
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You're worried about what message the Tim Thomas trade is sending to the players, fans, PA, other teams, et al about the state of the New York Islanders?

Hahaha..

That message was already SENT.

A LONG TIME AGO.

So, do you have any negative input on the HOCKEY ASSETS portion of the Thomas trade? Because I can't see a down side..
Of course there aren't any immediate negative hockey assets to the trade... because there were no hockey assets traded. We traded nothing for cap space.

I would argue that there is an indirect negative to the hockey assets portion as this further solidifies that noone will want to play here. Yes, that message was sent a while ago, but further solidifying it is not helping it.

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Old
02-11-2013, 04:28 PM
  #42
Felix Unger
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Originally Posted by JeffNYI View Post
That message was already SENT.

A LONG TIME AGO.

So, do you have any negative input on the HOCKEY ASSETS portion of the Thomas trade? Because I can't see a down side..
That's pathetic. We're 3 points out, not 13 and you're thinking assets.

I hope the draft pick we get out of this is enough to get you JACKED.

Dan-o

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02-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #43
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I would argue that there is an indirect negative to the hockey assets portion as this further solidifies that noone will want to play here. Yes, that message was sent a while ago, but further solidifying it is not helping it.
Please.

League-wide of opinion is already as low as it can get.. this trade did NOTHING to lower our "cred" in the hockey world..

I choose not to live my life adding ".... but what does it matter! We're a joke and haven't won a playoff series in 20 years!" to every thought I have about the Islanders.

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Old
02-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #44
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That's pathetic. We're 3 points out, not 13 and you're thinking assets.

I hope the draft pick we get out of this is enough to get you JACKED.

Dan-o
Good, then. We agree.

The Tim Thomas trade was a move that has ONLY upside to it.

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:02 PM
  #45
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Good, then. We agree.

The Tim Thomas trade was a move that has ONLY upside to it.
When you are a perennial lottery team and have all the PR the isles have had, nowhere to go but up. Like Lindsay Lohan.

Buying cap space to allow you to cheat the floor has upside. Some thing you have to repeat a few times to truly believe.

I would have been happier with Scott Gomez, Wade Redden and Tim Connolly under the guise of "maybe a change of scenery......." fits much better with the smoke shoved our way since 2001 (being kind).

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:07 PM
  #46
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Good, then. We agree.
Yes, dear.

Quote:
The Tim Thomas trade was a move that has ONLY upside to it.
Rights to hockey players or picks or whatever don't have determinate asset values in isolation of a wider context. The more assets we gain, your way, the less they're worth.

You see, among the things in this world that have intrinsic values, shockingly, they're not among them.

Dan-o

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02-11-2013, 06:40 PM
  #47
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Good, then. We agree.

The Tim Thomas trade was a move that has ONLY upside to it.
Much like the way lightheadedness can portend the onset of the flu, this trade is a symptom of a deeper problem.

But you just keep going on enjoying that lightheaded feeling.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:04 PM
  #48
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I dont think its necesarrily an immediate cap circumvention move. But it gives the isles felxibility to trade Visonvsky or Striet or whoever if you guys are out of it. If you are in it then you can still add if you really want to and it will have no real affect on adding someone. Its in the end a smart personel move.

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02-11-2013, 07:09 PM
  #49
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I dont think its necesarrily an immediate cap circumvention move. But it gives the isles felxibility to trade Visonvsky or Striet or whoever if you guys are out of it. If you are in it then you can still add if you really want to and it will have no real affect on adding someone. Its in the end a smart personel move.

They know that.

They don't care.

Anything we do either 1) is negative and adds to the joke that we are; or 2) is positive, but doesn't matter because of the joke that we are..

Your HF name would fit in PERFECTLY on the NYI forum, tho.

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02-11-2013, 07:37 PM
  #50
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They know that.

They don't care.

Anything we do either 1) is negative and adds to the joke that we are; or 2) is positive, but doesn't matter because of the joke that we are..

Your HF name would fit in PERFECTLY on the NYI forum, tho.
HA i just dont get the hate for Wang, its not as though he hasnt tried to add payroll. He tried to Sign Smyth, Ehrhoff, Martin and who knows who elseto massive deals. But they though right fully so that the arena situation was to questionable for them.

IMO you dodged bullets with all three of those guys. To me now that FA's know the final destination they will come, maybe not in bunches but they are on there way IMO.

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