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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 4.0

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Old
02-11-2013, 03:27 PM
  #451
Fozz
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Originally Posted by FisherKing View Post

Well, first of all, I've been a Habs fan for over 50 years so I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly with this team, so I'm not really inclined toward "knee jerk reactions" to games like the Leafs game on Saturday the way some younger posters here seem to be. Rather, my drafting preferences are based on the last 1000+ games the Habs have played (give or take a few hundred ). Of course I haven't seen all of them, but enough to get a feel for where the team has been going, or more accurately where it HASN'T been going.

My draft preferences are based on the teams recent (and not so recent) history; where I think the team may be drafting which I think will be the middle of the pack - maybe 12-18 (pure speculation of course); the players that might be available when Habs pick and the long term possiblee benefits to the Habs of picking those players.

Again, it's pure speculation on my part, but then I guess we're all in the same boat on that point.
Don't worry, I'm in the same boat of older fans as I grew up watching a dominant team in the '70s. My post was a reply to yours but was targeting a number of reactionary comments I've read since Saturday's debacle.

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02-11-2013, 04:32 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Don't worry, I'm in the same boat of older fans as I grew up watching a dominant team in the '70s. My post was a reply to yours but was targeting a number of reactionary comments I've read since Saturday's debacle.
Understand completely. Some posters here do tend to over-react from time to time and can't really blame them. Saturday night was pretty ugly, but I think Bergevin is taking notes, at least I hope he is.

P.S. Nice to know I'm not the only member of the geriatric club around here. The first Habs game I saw on TV was in 1959. Needless to say, it was in black and white. It was Rocket Richard's last game. He played defence. I was 7. Been a Habs fan ever since.

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02-11-2013, 04:38 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by FisherKing View Post
Understand completely. Some posters here do tend to over-react from time to time and can't really blame them. Saturday night was pretty ugly, but I think Bergevin is taking notes, at least I hope he is.

P.S. Nice to know I'm not the only member of the geriatric club around here. The first Habs game I saw on TV was in 1959. Needless to say, it was in black and white. It was Rocket Richard's last game. He played defence. I was 7. Been a Habs fan ever since.
Sadly I'm not old enough to have seen Rocket, Gros bill or even Big bird play... I hope you feel fortunate.



On topic, Nurse is impressing the hell out of me.

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Old
02-11-2013, 04:57 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Sadly I'm not old enough to have seen Rocket, Gros bill or even Big bird play... I hope you feel fortunate.



On topic, Nurse is impressing the hell out of me.
I feel very fortunate indeed to have seen those guys in their prime, well not Rocket, but the others. My hope now is to see the Habs rise again and take their proper place in the upper echelon before I before they fit me for a "wooden overcoat". I do think Bergevin is a good man though and expect great things in the future.

Hmmm, forgot about Nurse. He's definitely a candidate I'm sure Timmons & Co are keeping an eye on.

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Old
02-11-2013, 05:00 PM
  #455
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P.S. Nice to know I'm not the only member of the geriatric club around here. The first Habs game I saw on TV was in 1959. Needless to say, it was in black and white. It was Rocket Richard's last game. He played defence. I was 7. Been a Habs fan ever since.
Think I beat you by a few months. Remember well a few of his last goals, but also remember he was getting too slow to follow.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:19 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Is Gauthier that much better than Mantha? If we go by stats, it's not really close.

Is there a footspeed or hockey sense issue with Mantha? I don't really see either very often.
Gauthier is more complete. Mantha is an extremely gifted goal scorer. He's a better skater than Gauthier, but not by much. While Mantha is not a slouch defensively, he is years away from Gauthier. Mantha could score 40 goals in the NHL one day, while Gauthier will be less flashy offensively, but will play PK, shutdown the enemy top lines and win faceoffs. I think Gauthier has the potential to eventually produce offensively.

Think of a slightly less offensive/NHL ready Sean Couturier.

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02-11-2013, 08:26 PM
  #457
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Nice week to be a Sherbrooke fan. They play Val-D'or, Gatineau and Cape-Breton. Hopefully Carrier comes back by Sunday. Would be a shame if I missed him in my only live occasion to see him

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02-11-2013, 08:55 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by FisherKing View Post
Understand completely. Some posters here do tend to over-react from time to time and can't really blame them. Saturday night was pretty ugly, but I think Bergevin is taking notes, at least I hope he is.

P.S. Nice to know I'm not the only member of the geriatric club around here. The first Habs game I saw on TV was in 1959. Needless to say, it was in black and white. It was Rocket Richard's last game. He played defence. I was 7. Been a Habs fan ever since.
You've got 15 years on me but I do have vague memories of the the Pocket Rocket and the Big M. Wish I could've seen the Rocket in his heyday.

As for Bergevin... No doubts his taking notes. In fact, he already knew that the team lacked toughness and did his best to bring in a little bit of that element last summer. Might not be enough every night but I think most of us were happy before Saturday's game.

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02-11-2013, 09:25 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Diaby will be available in the 3rd or 4th rounds...
In all likelihood he'll be gone before the 50's.

Nichushkin raised his draft stock at the recent 5 Nations Cup..he was dominant, and even showed vision and creativity that was not necessarily evident at the U-20's. Mind you MacKinnon didn't really do that either at the WJC. What's more important is how he performs against players his own age, and he turned a lot of heads in Sweden. The huge question mark will concern his nationality and the KHL. He may be a top 5 talent that slips out of the top ten because of it, similar to Kuznetsov who, last time I checked, still was not close to playing in the NHL.

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02-11-2013, 11:17 PM
  #460
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Hey Grant, thanks for all your input to these draft/prospect threads.

Do you have any opinions on some of the other russians in this draft, like Pavel Buchnevich?

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Old
02-12-2013, 12:38 AM
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FisherKing View Post
Understand completely. Some posters here do tend to over-react from time to time and can't really blame them. Saturday night was pretty ugly, but I think Bergevin is taking notes, at least I hope he is.

P.S. Nice to know I'm not the only member of the geriatric club around here. The first Habs game I saw on TV was in 1959. Needless to say, it was in black and white. It was Rocket Richard's last game. He played defence. I was 7. Been a Habs fan ever since.
I can't remember the Rocket but can Beliveau. I became a Habs fan at 6 years old during the '71 series with Boston. That was my favorite Habs team...JC Tremblay, Dryden, The Big M drawed me in. They were outstanding in that series.

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Old
02-12-2013, 12:45 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
In all likelihood he'll be gone before the 50's.

Nichushkin raised his draft stock at the recent 5 Nations Cup..he was dominant, and even showed vision and creativity that was not necessarily evident at the U-20's. Mind you MacKinnon didn't really do that either at the WJC. What's more important is how he performs against players his own age, and he turned a lot of heads in Sweden. The huge question mark will concern his nationality and the KHL. He may be a top 5 talent that slips out of the top ten because of it, similar to Kuznetsov who, last time I checked, still was not close to playing in the NHL.
We're probably not talking about the same Diaby...

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Old
02-12-2013, 07:08 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
Gauthier is more complete. Mantha is an extremely gifted goal scorer. He's a better skater than Gauthier, but not by much. While Mantha is not a slouch defensively, he is years away from Gauthier. Mantha could score 40 goals in the NHL one day, while Gauthier will be less flashy offensively, but will play PK, shutdown the enemy top lines and win faceoffs. I think Gauthier has the potential to eventually produce offensively.

Think of a slightly less offensive/NHL ready Sean Couturier.
I saw Gauthier last night, Couturier is not a bad comparison, though his skating is a bit smoother. Couturier was a late birthday so that helped him make the jump right after the draft, basically palying NHL instead of the Q at 19. Gauthier would play at least another year junior if not two.

Gauthier has good puck skills and distributes well, he isn't a power forward but will get his nose in traffic.

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02-12-2013, 07:31 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I saw Gauthier last night, Couturier is not a bad comparison, though his skating is a bit smoother. Couturier was a late birthday so that helped him make the jump right after the draft, basically palying NHL instead of the Q at 19. Gauthier would play at least another year junior if not two.

Gauthier has good puck skills and distributes well, he isn't a power forward but will get his nose in traffic.
Can one really tell which 17 year old will be a powerful forward?

He's 6'4", 219 lbs, the potential is certainly there.

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Old
02-12-2013, 09:54 AM
  #465
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Can one really tell which 17 year old will be a powerful forward?

He's 6'4", 219 lbs, the potential is certainly there.
He will be a "powerful forward" but not a power forward.

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02-12-2013, 11:43 AM
  #466
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He will be a "powerful forward" but not a power forward.
Martin Hanzal a good comparison?

Though, Hanzal did get quite a bit of PIMs from time to time, but I'd never say he's a power forward, just someone willing to get his nose dirty.

I would hope for someone with a bit more offensive upside in the 1st round. Chipchura and Leblanc were "safe" picks (no, I am not writing Leblanc off).

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Old
02-12-2013, 12:10 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Martin Hanzal a good comparison?

Though, Hanzal did get quite a bit of PIMs from time to time, but I'd never say he's a power forward, just someone willing to get his nose dirty.

I would hope for someone with a bit more offensive upside in the 1st round. Chipchura and Leblanc were "safe" picks (no, I am not writing Leblanc off).
He has more offensive upside than what Hanzal has shown so far.

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Old
02-12-2013, 12:23 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I saw Gauthier last night, Couturier is not a bad comparison, though his skating is a bit smoother. Couturier was a late birthday so that helped him make the jump right after the draft, basically palying NHL instead of the Q at 19. Gauthier would play at least another year junior if not two.

Gauthier has good puck skills and distributes well, he isn't a power forward but will get his nose in traffic.
Reminds me more of an Antropov than a Couturier

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Old
02-12-2013, 12:28 PM
  #469
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Reminds me more of an Antropov than a Couturier
He's more intense than Antropov.

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02-12-2013, 01:24 PM
  #470
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I've seen Anthony Duclair recently and I was not impressed at all.

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02-12-2013, 03:51 PM
  #471
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Gauthier will be future third line center, doesn't have Couturier's hands. Couturier had 96 points in 58 games in his draft year. Gauthier much slower pace with 54 points in 49 games in his draft year.

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02-12-2013, 03:56 PM
  #472
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Gauthier will be future third line center, doesn't have Couturier's hands. Couturier had 96 points in 58 games in his draft year. Gauthier much slower pace with 54 points in 49 games in his draft year.
Couturier was a late birthday so his darft year was at 18 versus 17 for Gauthier.

Plus Gauthier is in his 1st year in the Q, it was Couturier's 3rd.

Not saying Gauthier will be as good or better, but it's not an even comparison.

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02-12-2013, 04:22 PM
  #473
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Couturier was a late birthday so his darft year was at 18 versus 17 for Gauthier.

Plus Gauthier is in his 1st year in the Q, it was Couturier's 3rd.

Not saying Gauthier will be as good or better, but it's not an even comparison.
Couturier had same points at 17 years old. Around point a game in the Q, nothing fancy for 18 year old

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02-12-2013, 04:26 PM
  #474
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Martin Hanzal a good comparison?

Though, Hanzal did get quite a bit of PIMs from time to time, but I'd never say he's a power forward, just someone willing to get his nose dirty.

I would hope for someone with a bit more offensive upside in the 1st round. Chipchura and Leblanc were "safe" picks (no, I am not writing Leblanc off).
The very best possible comparison for Fréderik Gauthier is Keith Primeau (once established), though Hanzal isn't bad. Nothing to do with Antropov.

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02-12-2013, 04:29 PM
  #475
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I've seen Anthony Duclair recently and I was not impressed at all.
With cause. Wouldn't make a bad 2nd rounder; I'm just not that convinced he's really superior to Émile Poirier at this point.

Quote:
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Couturier had same points at 17 years old. Around point a game in the Q, nothing fancy for 18 year old
He was also hailed as a 1st overall, which is obviously not the case with Gauthier, who is more hailed as a 10th overall with a ceiling of a very good 2nd liner (Keith Primeau's best seasons). Not to mention that his progression is quite interesting. In that regards, another interesting comparison would be Patrice Bergeron. Just 5 inches taller. That player would certainly be our 1st line center at the moment.

This said, Gauthier would address a REALLY, REALLY glaring need. Size at C.

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