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Do we need a heavyweight enforcer...

View Poll Results: Should the Habs claim Darcy Hordichuk on waivers?
Yes 21 33.87%
No 41 66.13%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:56 PM
  #926
Jyroe Habs Fan
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
apparently the National Hokey League has no ideasa about justice, the Habs need an on-ice assassin to take care of Grabovski.
This is the main point! The NHL just laughs at the Habs, it goes back farther than than the Chara incident. We have never seen the NHL take help the Habs because we are smurf joke of the league.
We need one bigger mother to finish the business that White and Prust has started.
Just wait to the next beatdown folks.

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02-11-2013, 07:57 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Repeating the same stuff over and over again like you do doesn't make it any truer.
What have I been repeating? Have we discussed Hordichuk before? Or are you yourself repeating a typically boring forum response?

Your 'evidence' of Hordichuk being a good fighter is lacking. You posted fights of him engaging: Boll (borderline heavyweight), Staubitz (not a heavy), Parros (not a good heavy), Rupp (a bad heavy who loses to most heavies and some middleweights), and Orr (legitimate heavy). Out of those 5 fights, the only clear wins were against Boll and Rupp. Either way, even if you're a middle weight like Asham, Prust, Staubitz or Hordichuk, you're going to win a few fights if you engage in enough of them.

On balance, that doesn't refute my previous post, which is that Hordichuk's not a true heavyweight, and he's not any more effective than Prust in fights really. He may be a bit bigger, but he's not fearsome, he's not intimidating, and I don't think he'd keep opponents honest any more than Staubitz would. Which is not to say that he'd have no impact in this regard -- but I think Staubitz would too, if you took him in favour of Armstrong.

By the way: Hordichuk and Prust have fought a couple times before. They're evenly matched -- again, evidence substantiating my previous point.

And, if you're still adamant in claiming that Hordichuk is some good heavyweight, then let's take a look at his fight card instead of picking five (unimpressive) fights against unimpressive, for the most part, opponents:

Against 'good' (yes, subjective) heavyweights: Boll (W), Kassian (L), Kassian (L), Shelley (D), Bissonnette (D - edge Hordi), Reaves (L), Parros (D), Kassian (L), Carkner (L), Thornton (L), Parros (D), Boll (W), Lessard (D), Boulton (W), Lessard (W), Parros (L), McGratton (L), Janssen (D), Parros (D), Barch (D)
Against 'bad' heavyweights: Rupp (W), Stortini (L), Stortini (D)
Against middleweights: Staubitz (W), Prust (D), McCormick (D), Strudwick (W)

Record against 'good' heavies: 4-8-8
Against 'bad' heavies: 1-1-1
Against middles: 2-0-2

Before you spew your next typical troll-like response, substantiate your argument and try to be respectful. It doesn't hurt when, you know, engaging in a discussion.

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02-11-2013, 07:58 PM
  #928
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Is anyone watching the Leafs-Flyers game? Are all of Toronto's goons playing?

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02-11-2013, 08:01 PM
  #929
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Someone mentioned Bryan Boyle in the trade section. He's been a healthy scratch with the Rangers lately so we could have him for cheap. He's also a center that can play hockey and his draw % is pretty good.

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02-11-2013, 08:02 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Someone mentioned Bryan Boyle in the trade section. He's been a healthy scratch with the Rangers lately so we could have him for cheap. He's also a center that can play hockey and his draw % is pretty good.
And he's a bad fighter.

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02-11-2013, 08:03 PM
  #931
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And he's a bad fighter.
This.

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02-11-2013, 08:03 PM
  #932
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It is not surprising that Grabovski was not suspended.

Those are the unwritten rules that 29 of 30 teams understand.

Maybe the Habs (and most Habs fans) can stop whining and start acting: get some toughness on the team, and that starts with a heavyweight enforcer.

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02-11-2013, 08:04 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Someone mentioned Bryan Boyle in the trade section. He's been a healthy scratch with the Rangers lately so we could have him for cheap. He's also a center that can play hockey and his draw % is pretty good.
He's probably the worst 6'6 fighter ever but yeah he'd still be a big upgrade over Moen or Armstrong.

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02-11-2013, 08:05 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Jyroe Habs Fan View Post
This is the main point! The NHL just laughs at the Habs, it goes back farther than than the Chara incident. We have never seen the NHL take help the Habs because we are smurf joke of the league.
We need one bigger mother to finish the business that White and Prust has started.
Just wait to the next beatdown folks.
The only reason there was a beatdown was because we were down 6-0....how often do you think we are going to be in that position....if the answer is: enough times to need a heavyweight than we got waaay bigger problems then just winning fights.

Where do think maclaren, colton orr, and fraser are gonna be by the end of the season....do you really think a team can win when an entire line and more consist of useless ****ing goons....the only reason any of them are even on an NHL team is because it`s toronto.....every year the leafs get off to a great start, and every season they **** the bed halfway through...if not sooner....this year is no different. what do you see in that lineup that is going to make it any different than last year....they still didn;t get a number 1 center. they still didn`t adress their goaltending....phil kessel has been a no show for the majority of it and lupul is injured....they are ****ed beyond belief and once the leafs fans realize they will shut their big dumb ****ing mouths and this loss will be nothing...it will mean nothing....it will be a faded memory. god..enough of this ****

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02-11-2013, 08:05 PM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It is not surprising that Grabovski was not suspended.

Those are the unwritten rules that 29 of 30 teams understand.

Maybe the Habs (and most Habs fans) can stop whining and start acting: get some toughness on the team, and that starts with a heavyweight enforcer.
It's not toughness that we need, it's insanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
He's probably the worst 6'6 fighter ever but yeah he'd still be a big upgrade over Moen or Armstrong.
Over Moen no. Armstrong, even I would be a upgrade. Moen toned down on the fighting but hes still effective.

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02-11-2013, 08:06 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by bigtimehockeyfan999 View Post
The only reason there was a beatdown was because we were down 6-0....how often do you think we are going to be in that position....if the answer is: enough times to need a heavyweight than we got waaay bigger problems then just winning fights.

Where do think maclaren, colton orr, and fraser are gonna be by the end of the season....do you really think a team can win when an entire line and more consist of useless ****ing goons....the only reason any of them are even on an NHL team is because it`s toronto.....every year the leafs get off to a great start, and every season they **** the bed halfway through...if not sooner....this year is no different. what do you see in that lineup that is going to make it any different than last year....they still didn;t get a number 1 center. they still didn`t adress their goaltending....phil kessel has been a no show for the majority of it and lupul is injured....they are ****ed beyond belief and once the leafs fans realize they will shut their big dumb ****ing mouths and this loss will be nothing...it will mean nothing....it will be a faded memory. god..enough of this ****
Aaaaand while you're writing this the leafs goon line scores

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02-11-2013, 08:07 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
He's probably the worst 6'6 fighter ever but yeah he'd still be a big upgrade over Moen or Armstrong.
I thought he was pretty boss in the playoffs against Ottawa.

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02-11-2013, 08:08 PM
  #938
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Orr has more goals than both Armstrong and Moen combined! Who said he couldn't play hockey!

Geez the Laffs just scored twice in 30 secs! Is this real life?

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02-11-2013, 08:09 PM
  #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It is not surprising that Grabovski was not suspended.

Those are the unwritten rules that 29 of 30 teams understand.

Maybe the Habs (and most Habs fans) can stop whining and start acting: get some toughness on the team, and that starts with a heavyweight enforcer.
I agree. Poor Max Pac, he'll be known as a whiner for all these incidents. Not his fault but still...

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02-11-2013, 08:11 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I thought he was pretty boss in the playoffs against Ottawa.
Where he got Sissy-slapped by both Carkner and Neil?

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02-11-2013, 08:11 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I thought he was pretty boss in the playoffs against Ottawa.
I had him for his pheripheral stats (FOW, Hits) on my fantasy team but yeah he's surprisingly mobile for a 6'6 guy who actually plays decent hockey.

Like I said, he'd still be a huge upgrade over any of Moen and Armstrong.

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02-11-2013, 08:17 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Leafs fan coming in peace...

When Ron Wilson was our head coach, I felt the same way since day one. He was the reason we sent Colton Orr down. He threw every player under the bus and never took blame for anything. I'll be honest, I personally have never like Therrien as a coach. Like the poser above said, he always makes it seem like he's above the players. I don't think that's a coach's job. I think a coach's job is to establish roles in which every player will be comfortable enough in that the team can succeed to its highest potential. Throwing players under the bus does nothing for that. I was very surprised Therrien went out of his way to bury White for that loss. However he should definitely be eating his tongue just like the poster above said, especially after that game by the team.
Those type of coachs seem to neuters their whole team by acting this way. Leafs have more determination now that they have had during the whole four years of Burke. It's been a while that the Habs have a coach that understand this aspect in the game, a coach that's friendly with the tough guys.

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02-11-2013, 08:17 PM
  #943
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What have I been repeating? Have we discussed Hordichuk before? Or are you yourself repeating a typically boring forum response?

Your 'evidence' of Hordichuk being a good fighter is lacking. You posted fights of him engaging: Boll (borderline heavyweight), Staubitz (not a heavy), Parros (not a good heavy), Rupp (a bad heavy who loses to most heavies and some middleweights), and Orr (legitimate heavy). Out of those 5 fights, the only clear wins were against Boll and Rupp. Either way, even if you're a middle weight like Asham, Prust, Staubitz or Hordichuk, you're going to win a few fights if you engage in enough of them.

On balance, that doesn't refute my previous post, which is that Hordichuk's not a true heavyweight, and he's not any more effective than Prust in fights really. He may be a bit bigger, but he's not fearsome, he's not intimidating, and I don't think he'd keep opponents honest any more than Staubitz would. Which is not to say that he'd have no impact in this regard -- but I think Staubitz would too, if you took him in favour of Armstrong.

By the way: Hordichuk and Prust have fought a couple times before. They're evenly matched -- again, evidence substantiating my previous point.

And, if you're still adamant in claiming that Hordichuk is some good heavyweight, then let's take a look at his fight card instead of picking five (unimpressive) fights against unimpressive, for the most part, opponents:

Against 'good' (yes, subjective) heavyweights: Boll (W), Kassian (L), Kassian (L), Shelley (D), Bissonnette (D - edge Hordi), Reaves (L), Parros (D), Kassian (L), Carkner (L), Thornton (L), Parros (D), Boll (W), Lessard (D), Boulton (W), Lessard (W), Parros (L), McGratton (L), Janssen (D), Parros (D), Barch (D)
Against 'bad' heavyweights: Rupp (W), Stortini (L), Stortini (D)
Against middleweights: Staubitz (W), Prust (D), McCormick (D), Strudwick (W)

Record against 'good' heavies: 4-8-8
Against 'bad' heavies: 1-1-1
Against middles: 2-0-2

Before you spew your next typical troll-like response, substantiate your argument and try to be respectful. It doesn't hurt when, you know, engaging in a discussion.
I never was disrespectful. You repeated both times that he was a middleweight as if it was a fact, an evidence, when it was just a subjective point of view.

Furthermore, thanks for proving my point. Of the 27 fights you tracked out there, 20 of them are against "good" HW. 4 against MW, and 3 against "bad" HW. No matter how you look at it, he's clearly fighting in one particular weight class there.

Plus, reading your post, I can pretty easily say that you've never been in any fight of any kind before, if all what matters for you is the W-L record of the said fighter on the hockeyfights website. If you saw his fight against Orr, in which he was voted a loser, Orr was actually leaking blood after the fight. Win or lose, punches hurt. It hurts physically AND emotionally. You don't play the same game after getting punched in the face by a guy who is a 212 pounder. You of course also forgot to mention that the guy stands up to a lot of HWs out there, and actually lands some punches that have some effects on them.

You judgment is flawed, you're the only one out there who claims Hordichuk is a middleweight. As for the "unimpressive" fights I chose, well by your comment you just prove further more that you have never been in any fight of any kind, and that you have absolutely no idea what is the effect of getting punched in the face.

Hordichuk will go against guys like Thornton and Orr. He'll lose some, but he'll also win some. If you expect the guy to knock the hell out of each and every opponent he faces, well you don't have an accurate definition/expectation of the role of a tough guy out there. You don't expect him to win each fight. You expect him to face the tough guy from the other team, and to prevent punks from taking liberties at your good players.

Next time you want to start a cordial conversation, stop repeating your own opinion as if it was a fact.

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02-11-2013, 08:19 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
It's not toughness that we need, it's insanity.



Over Moen no. Armstrong, even I would be a upgrade. Moen toned down on the fighting but hes still effective.
Moen was tough in ANA when he knew Parros and co. would back him up. He never fought much on a much softer MTL squad.

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02-11-2013, 08:20 PM
  #945
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Where he got Sissy-slapped by both Carkner and Neil?
I didn't see him back down. I think he caused a lot of mayhem and I think he was an important piece of the grit the Rangers had in that series.

Plus, he can play hockey.

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02-11-2013, 08:29 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Moen was tough in ANA when he knew Parros and co. would back him up. He never fought much on a much softer MTL squad.
It think it's more about the team mentality... Anaheim was tough as nail back in those days but in his first year with us he also had 8 fights, is third best total. I think he need's a shake up.

Also, he tried many times to fight this season(with Boston) but he got refused. I don't think Moen is intelligent and doesnt want his team to pay for the actions he does.... Still I'd like him to fight more.


Quote:
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I didn't see him back down. I think he caused a lot of mayhem and I think he was an important piece of the grit the Rangers had in that series.

Plus, he can play hockey.
We are talking heavy weight here. Not Boyle.

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02-11-2013, 08:32 PM
  #947
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I never was disrespectful. You repeated both times that he was a middleweight as if it was a fact, an evidence, when it was just a subjective point of view.

Furthermore, thanks for proving my point. Of the 27 fights you tracked out there, 20 of them are against "good" HW. 4 against MW, and 3 against "bad" HW. No matter how you look at it, he's clearly fighting in one particular weight class there.

Plus, reading your post, I can pretty easily say that you've never been in any fight of any kind before, if all what matters for you is the W-L record of the said fighter on the hockeyfights website. If you saw his fight against Orr, in which he was voted a loser, Orr was actually leaking blood after the fight. Win or lose, punches hurt. It hurts physically AND emotionally. You don't play the same game after getting punched in the face by a guy who is a 212 pounder. You of course also forgot to mention that the guy stands up to a lot of HWs out there, and actually lands some punches that have some effects on them.

You judgment is flawed, you're the only one out there who claims Hordichuk is a middleweight. As for the "unimpressive" fights I chose, well by your comment you just prove further more that you have never been in any fight of any kind, and that you have absolutely no idea what is the effect of getting punched in the face.

Hordichuk will go against guys like Thornton and Orr. He'll lose some, but he'll also win some. If you expect the guy to knock the hell out of each and every opponent he faces, well you don't have an accurate definition/expectation of the role of a tough guy out there. You don't expect him to win each fight. You expect him to face the tough guy from the other team, and to prevent punks from taking liberties at your good players.

Next time you want to start a cordial conversation, stop repeating your own opinion as if it was a fact.

¿Por qué no los dos?

Honestly, if we were to ever acquire a heavyweight, I would want either Bordeleau or Kassian, who so far are undefeated in their nhl careers and who have proven to be really top notch fighters.

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02-11-2013, 08:34 PM
  #948
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[QUOTE=Mrb1p;59515593]It think it's more about the team mentality... Anaheim was tough as nail back in those days but in his first year with us he also had 8 fights, is third best total. I think he need's a shake up.

Also, he tried many times to fight this season(with Boston) but he got refused. I don't think Moen is intelligent and doesnt want his team to pay for the actions he does.... Still I'd like him to fight more.




Quote:
We are talking heavy weight here. Not Boyle.
Boyle is a giant!

He's not the best fighter but at least he can play. We could get him for fourth line center duty. Then get a goon down the line.

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02-11-2013, 08:35 PM
  #949
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[QUOTE=Kimota;59516389]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
It think it's more about the team mentality... Anaheim was tough as nail back in those days but in his first year with us he also had 8 fights, is third best total. I think he need's a shake up.

Also, he tried many times to fight this season(with Boston) but he got refused. I don't think Moen is intelligent and doesnt want his team to pay for the actions he does.... Still I'd like him to fight more.






Boyle is a giant!

He's not the best fighter but at least he can play. We could get him for fourth line center duty. Then get a goon down the line.
He his.. but sadly hes not scarier than White or Prust or Moen.

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02-11-2013, 08:52 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
I never was disrespectful. You repeated both times that he was a middleweight as if it was a fact, an evidence, when it was just a subjective point of view.

Furthermore, thanks for proving my point. Of the 27 fights you tracked out there, 20 of them are against "good" HW. 4 against MW, and 3 against "bad" HW. No matter how you look at it, he's clearly fighting in one particular weight class there.

Plus, reading your post, I can pretty easily say that you've never been in any fight of any kind before, if all what matters for you is the W-L record of the said fighter on the hockeyfights website. If you saw his fight against Orr, in which he was voted a loser, Orr was actually leaking blood after the fight. Win or lose, punches hurt. It hurts physically AND emotionally. You don't play the same game after getting punched in the face by a guy who is a 212 pounder. You of course also forgot to mention that the guy stands up to a lot of HWs out there, and actually lands some punches that have some effects on them.

You judgment is flawed, you're the only one out there who claims Hordichuk is a middleweight. As for the "unimpressive" fights I chose, well by your comment you just prove further more that you have never been in any fight of any kind, and that you have absolutely no idea what is the effect of getting punched in the face.

Hordichuk will go against guys like Thornton and Orr. He'll lose some, but he'll also win some. If you expect the guy to knock the hell out of each and every opponent he faces, well you don't have an accurate definition/expectation of the role of a tough guy out there. You don't expect him to win each fight. You expect him to face the tough guy from the other team, and to prevent punks from taking liberties at your good players.

Next time you want to start a cordial conversation, stop repeating your own opinion as if it was a fact.
This is pretty childish stuff. What repeating? I talked about Hordichuk in one post. Why do you insist that I'm repeating myself? And why do you mimic my last line? How is that viewed as respectful, or as anything other than childish behaviour?

As far as the claims that I've never been in a fight before ... really, how old are you? How is it possible to have a cordial discussion with someone who thinks on such a base level?

My claim was that Hordichuk's a middleweight (subjective), and that he'll lose more often than not against heavyweights (fact). He also doesn't tend to fight top heavyweights often (fact). I don't claim my opinion is fact: that I categorise him as a middleweight is indeed my perspective. But there are no facts categorising weight classes of fighters, so obviously that's a subjective opinion. If we add disclaimers to every comment we make, posts would be crazy long.

Anyway, this is all irrelevant at this point. I've proven that Hordichuk's not a very good fighter, and that he's often outclassed when fighting heavies. And he rarely fights good heavies at that.

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