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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXII - Kessel Run Edition

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:03 AM
  #301
AndyPipkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
It started with someone mentioning potentially signing Getzlaf and Perry in the same breath as the Sedins contracts expiring and hoping they'd take an unrealistic paycut to facilitate having all four players on the roster.

Someone pointed out that such a paycut (~35%) was unrealistic without a major drop off in performance, and as usual that's Pauser's queue to show up, intentionally misinterpret other posters ('If they won't take a 35% paycut we should let them walk for nothing because $12m is too much,' etc) and spend most of the next 40 hours responding to whoever will listen with the same paper-thin rationale he's had for years about why they're not as good as everyone thinks, not worth as much as everyone thinks, etc.

As for your post I don't know if the Sedins would leave the league because they feel underappreciated - to touch on another subject raised a few pages back, the consensus seems to be that they are "unbothered" by what goes on in the media which would make retiring due to a lack of praise pretty curious.

I could see them retiring due to a lack of accountability if they are targeted by cheap shots like the Keith elbow in the future, I suppose - but they seem to me like very driven players and I for one doubt they will retire until either they've accomplished what they want to, they can not longer play the game at a high level or until some injury that threatens one of their post-hockey quality of life comes into play.

Apparently they want to do one year deals from here on out though, so it will probably be an annual discussion for the rest of their career as Canucks.
I think they are already showing push back with all the hits they've been throwing this year.

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02-11-2013, 11:10 AM
  #302
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Updated Goalie Trade Lists

Updated Luongo Trade Rankings:
  • Washington (!!!!) - Protestations about affordability notwithstanding, that team needs Lou like no other. The proposal: Neuvirth and Forsberg for Luongo and a 3rd
  • (+1) Tampa (!!!1/2) - Sorry, but why risk a contender on crappy goaltending. This team could be so much better - Garon and Connolly for Luongo
  • (-1) Florida (!!!) - This is still a fit for the Canucks. Markstrom is coming on now in the AHL. Theodore, Shore and Petrovic for Lou. Shore's emerging play drops the price for Florida.
  • NYI (!!) - No clue what this team is doing. Nabokov and Niedereiter for Luongo
  • Columbus (!!) - Getting to the point that Bob does not look up to saving a franchise. Would Lou waive to go there? Brassard, Bob and the LA first rounder for Raymond and Luongo
  • Toronto (!!) - No asset fit and Reimer is playing well. Maybe a three way is possible. Kulemin, and a first for Lou. Trade a second rounder for Bishop ship Kulemin to Pittsburgh for a prospect D . Convoluted.
  • New Jersey (!)
  • Phoenix (!) Can't afford Lou's salary but if the team looks ready to move to Quebec, it's a brilliant fit. I wonder if Lou could post a 96% Save percentage with Tippet? Gormley and Smith for Luongo.
  • Edmonton (!) Dubnyk getting it done right now. MPS, Khabi and a first for Lou.
The Off-season 'get me the $#^& out of here' Schneider Trade Rankings
  • Columbus (!!!!!)
  • (+1) Tampa (!!!!!)
  • (-1) Phoenix (!!!!)
  • NYI (!!!)
  • Washington (!!!)
  • Winnipeg (!!)
  • Toronto (!)
  • New Jersey (!)
  • Edmonton (!)
  • Minnesota (!)
  • Buffalo (!)

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:20 AM
  #303
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@AndyPipkin

Well, one of those hits got Daniel a flying elbow in the face last year.. you could make an argument the push back started at that point.

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Old
02-11-2013, 12:50 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Updated Luongo Trade Rankings:
  • Washington (!!!!) - Protestations about affordability notwithstanding, that team needs Lou like no other. The proposal: Neuvirth and Forsberg for Luongo and a 3rd
  • (+1) Tampa (!!!1/2) - Sorry, but why risk a contender on crappy goaltending. This team could be so much better - Garon and Connolly for Luongo
  • (-1) Florida (!!!) - This is still a fit for the Canucks. Markstrom is coming on now in the AHL. Theodore, Shore and Petrovic for Lou. Shore's emerging play drops the price for Florida.
  • NYI (!!) - No clue what this team is doing. Nabokov and Niedereiter for Luongo
  • Columbus (!!) - Getting to the point that Bob does not look up to saving a franchise. Would Lou waive to go there? Brassard, Bob and the LA first rounder for Raymond and Luongo
  • Toronto (!!) - No asset fit and Reimer is playing well. Maybe a three way is possible. Kulemin, and a first for Lou. Trade a second rounder for Bishop ship Kulemin to Pittsburgh for a prospect D . Convoluted.
  • New Jersey (!)
  • Phoenix (!) Can't afford Lou's salary but if the team looks ready to move to Quebec, it's a brilliant fit. I wonder if Lou could post a 96% Save percentage with Tippet? Gormley and Smith for Luongo.
  • Edmonton (!) Dubnyk getting it done right now. MPS, Khabi and a first for Lou.
The Off-season 'get me the $#^& out of here' Schneider Trade Rankings
  • Columbus (!!!!!)
  • (+1) Tampa (!!!!!)
  • (-1) Phoenix (!!!!)
  • NYI (!!!)
  • Washington (!!!)
  • Winnipeg (!!)
  • Toronto (!)
  • New Jersey (!)
  • Edmonton (!)
  • Minnesota (!)
  • Buffalo (!)
No offense, but those offers are terrible. Garon and Connolly? Forsberg and Neuvirth? A series of teams Luongo would never waive his NTC for? Phoenix? Really?

Does not compute (!!!!!)

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Old
02-11-2013, 01:01 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Wrong we pay the Sedin's to win their matchups.

-14 isn't winning them.

I love the Twins and I'm a Luongo fan.

Do they have to be pitted against eachother all the time?

They were both big reasons why we were in game 7 of the SCF, and we're also big reasons why we lost.
Assuming you are talking about the Boston series... you realize they are still just -7, as they were (I am assuming) on the ice for the same goals against? You don't just add up the +/- and say look at how much worse this was! It was the same goals...

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Old
02-11-2013, 01:03 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Henrik was injured. So what did you expect Daniel do to? He and Burrows were all that remained of a decimated top six. Incidentally, Daniel did accumulate four points, thus by your own admission he was adequate under the circumstances.

Why is you only accredit the Sedins as faults for an offensive implosion? Injuries were rampant and Boston took advantage by practically ignoring Kesler, gambling on him being completely ineffective. Frankly, it was a fantastic coaching decision by Julien realize our Achilles' heel - injured depth. How can expect the Sedins to much of anything when they became the primary focus of a five man shutdown? Unlike with Nashville, we no longer had Kesler to punish such tactics. The Sedins do not play an aggressive physical game and that further proved advantageous to Boston.

Allowing the Sedins to walk is narrowminded and foolish. We haven't anyone to replace their productivity nor the impact they do provide. For someone so adamantly against becoming the Flames. You are advocating the route that will lead use directly to that very scenario.
Did you seriously think that I meant 4 points in a 7 game series is on par with a 1-0 shutout? I meant 4 points in 1 game is the equivalent of a 1-0 shutout. Something Daniel didn't do.

Daniel Sedin is being paid $6.1M. If he can't pick up the play and make something happen because his center has a sore back then we are grossly overpaying him and have built our team around the wrong players.

I credit the Sedins as faults for our offensive implosion because they are our PRIMARY scorers. We had secondary scoring coming from the third line, but we had NO PRIMARY SCORING. Our second line was also non-existent.

I am adamant against becoming the Flames which is why it's a terrible idea to lock ourselves to two aging stars who haven't accomplished anything in the playoffs and are showing signs of decline. If we get rid of them then we have $12.2M in cap space to play with. We are able to have a top 6 consisting of Kesler, Booth, Burrows, Schroeder, Kassian, and a big UFA acquisition. In addition we can use the rest of the cap savings to improve our depth which should also include Jensen, Hansen, and possibly even Gaunce by that time.

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Old
02-11-2013, 01:11 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
@AndyPipkin

Well, one of those hits got Daniel a flying elbow in the face last year.. you could make an argument the push back started at that point.
I think that was more of an abberation. It was a nothing hit that Keith just happened to think was dirty because it caught his head a bit.

This year I've seen Henrik straight up run people over.

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Old
02-11-2013, 01:13 PM
  #308
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True.

He also put RNH out of action for a few days.

Hopefully it's part of a permanent change in their game.

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02-11-2013, 02:30 PM
  #309
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Our own players aren't even safe from Henrik:

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Old
02-11-2013, 03:43 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
No offense, but those offers are terrible. Garon and Connolly? Forsberg and Neuvirth? A series of teams Luongo would never waive his NTC for? Phoenix? Really?

Does not compute (!!!!!)
1.) You actually have no idea what he'd waive for.
2.) Phoenix has a ufa goalie that may or may not stay, that has goe between terrible and terrific and exactly one good nhl season among many crappy ones. They are an obvious destination for schneider if the canucks chose to move him.
3.) Connolly (tampa) is a reasonable main piece coming back in a lou trade. So is forsberg. We also need a keeper back. You may no think it's enough but most here would say it is.

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02-11-2013, 04:41 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Updated Luongo Trade Rankings:
  • Washington (!!!!) - Protestations about affordability notwithstanding, that team needs Lou like no other. The proposal: Neuvirth and Forsberg for Luongo and a 3rd
  • (+1) Tampa (!!!1/2) - Sorry, but why risk a contender on crappy goaltending. This team could be so much better - Garon and Connolly for Luongo
  • (-1) Florida (!!!) - This is still a fit for the Canucks. Markstrom is coming on now in the AHL. Theodore, Shore and Petrovic for Lou. Shore's emerging play drops the price for Florida.
  • NYI (!!) - No clue what this team is doing. Nabokov and Niedereiter for Luongo
  • Columbus (!!) - Getting to the point that Bob does not look up to saving a franchise. Would Lou waive to go there? Brassard, Bob and the LA first rounder for Raymond and Luongo
  • Toronto (!!) - No asset fit and Reimer is playing well. Maybe a three way is possible. Kulemin, and a first for Lou. Trade a second rounder for Bishop ship Kulemin to Pittsburgh for a prospect D . Convoluted.
  • New Jersey (!)
  • Phoenix (!) Can't afford Lou's salary but if the team looks ready to move to Quebec, it's a brilliant fit. I wonder if Lou could post a 96% Save percentage with Tippet? Gormley and Smith for Luongo.
  • Edmonton (!) Dubnyk getting it done right now. MPS, Khabi and a first for Lou.
The Off-season 'get me the $#^& out of here' Schneider Trade Rankings
  • Columbus (!!!!!)
  • (+1) Tampa (!!!!!)
  • (-1) Phoenix (!!!!)
  • NYI (!!!)
  • Washington (!!!)
  • Winnipeg (!!)
  • Toronto (!)
  • New Jersey (!)
  • Edmonton (!)
  • Minnesota (!)
  • Buffalo (!)
I see Tampa as the big favorites this current season - they have shown an amazing ability to score, have a reasonable defense but simply are not getting good goaltending - they are leading their division despite neither of their goalies having a save% above 0.905. Their goaltending is the only thing that might keep them from making the playoffs and being contenders...their offense is very dynamic.

WAS is getting awful goaltending from both their "potential starters" under 0.890. If we don't get something done with them, there won't be a chance because their season will be over.

FLA is also getting awful goaltending from both their guys (under 0.890). Their season is also looking to be over soon. It either has to happen soon or never.

Really the best bet would be to setup a SE division bidding war. Any team that actually acquires Luongo might win the division there but there is also a good chance that their 1st becomes a high lottery pick.

If Luongo gets traded this season I'd want a 1st + something useful. I think the price goes down in the off-season but I'm okay with that if it secures our goaltending position for now.

Here's what I'd want for now from these three teams:
-TBL - Connolly + 1st + Garon for Luongo
-FLA - Weiss + Weaver + 1st (+Upshall if they need to move his salary) for Luongo + Raymond + Ballard
-WAS - Carlson + Johansson + Holtby for Luongo + Raymond + Ballard (don't want Neveruth at all - the guy is a jackass)

I could also see Schneider to WIN or CBJ as a possibility.

Seems like I'm asking for a lot because as stated months ago, I think the perfect situation is Luongo and Schneider playing the whole season on our team and trading one at the draft not right now.

IMO - TOR, EDM, and NYI seem like they are good in goal.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:19 PM
  #312
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Great news for #Canucks: Sedins want to stay after contracts expire in 2014: "Absolutely. If it's up to us, we want to stay here."
Not really big news but its something.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:29 PM
  #313
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Phoenix would never trade Gormley for Lou. That kid is going to be a STUD.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:34 PM
  #314
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Not really big news but its something.
I think a lot of these reporters read our threads

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02-11-2013, 06:36 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by keslerburrows View Post
Phoenix would never trade Gormley for Lou. That kid is going to be a STUD.
I doubt Luongo would waive for Phoenix.

Gormley may be a stud one day...Luongo is one right now.

I think this only goes down if PHX moves to QUE this off-season. They'd want to make a splash and there is a chance that Luongo would move out to QUE. I'd want more than just Gormley.

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02-11-2013, 06:40 PM
  #316
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Not really big news but its something.
The Sedins are on pace to earn well over $100mil over their careers. Woudln't be surprised if they leave significant money on the table from here on out, potentially on recurring 1 year deals. They know the more they make, the less quality talent they will be surrounded with. Negotiations should be a breeze.

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02-11-2013, 06:46 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
It started with someone mentioning potentially signing Getzlaf and Perry in the same breath as the Sedins contracts expiring and hoping they'd take an unrealistic paycut to facilitate having all four players on the roster.

Someone pointed out that such a paycut (~35%) was unrealistic without a major drop off in performance, and as usual that's Pauser's queue to show up, intentionally misinterpret other posters ('If they won't take a 35% paycut we should let them walk for nothing because $12m is too much,' etc) and spend most of the next 40 hours responding to whoever will listen with the same paper-thin rationale he's had for years about why they're not as good as everyone thinks, not worth as much as everyone thinks, etc.

As for your post I don't know if the Sedins would leave the league because they feel underappreciated - to touch on another subject raised a few pages back, the consensus seems to be that they are "unbothered" by what goes on in the media which would make retiring due to a lack of praise pretty curious.

I could see them retiring due to a lack of accountability if they are targeted by cheap shots like the Keith elbow in the future, I suppose - but they seem to me like very driven players and I for one doubt they will retire until either they've accomplished what they want to, they can not longer play the game at a high level or until some injury that threatens one of their post-hockey quality of life comes into play.

Apparently they want to do one year deals from here on out though, so it will probably be an annual discussion for the rest of their career as Canucks.
Agree with this - I could see it happening for pretty much those reasons. At this stage of their career you have to think they'll be thinking about life after hockey too if the reffing standard for those types of cheap shots gets worse.

The mentality that we'll leave it to the league to mete out discipline is no longer justifiable imo. We realistically cannot expect the same standard of officiating come the playoffs given what we've seen happen. No more 'we'll take a cheapshot if it means we get a PP'.

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02-11-2013, 07:22 PM
  #318
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Agree with this - I could see it happening for pretty much those reasons. At this stage of their career you have to think they'll be thinking about life after hockey too if the reffing standard for those types of cheap shots gets worse.

The mentality that we'll leave it to the league to mete out discipline is no longer justifiable imo. We realistically cannot expect the same standard of officiating come the playoffs given what we've seen happen. No more 'we'll take a cheapshot if it means we get a PP'.


They are essentially trying to do both now. If the refs don't punish the play, they are adding the elements to protect themselves. Which is only prudent.


On another note, I'm going to revel in the reactions of certain posters _when_ the Sedins get re-signed. 'Tis going to be a great event to behold.

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02-11-2013, 07:25 PM
  #319
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On another note, I'm going to revel in the reactions of certain posters _when_ the Sedins get re-signed. 'Tis going to be a great event to behold.
Just one poster...

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02-11-2013, 07:25 PM
  #320
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Not really big news but its something.
This is a no brainer, either get them on retirement contracts or see if they want to do 2 discounted years to free up room for a two year push for the cup.

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02-11-2013, 07:37 PM
  #321
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They are essentially trying to do both now. If the refs don't punish the play, they are adding the elements to protect themselves. Which is only prudent.
Hopefully, if that means they're going to be more assertive out there. What sort of elements do you mean btw?

They certainly seem to be hitting more too.

Quote:
On another note, I'm going to revel in the reactions of certain posters _when_ the Sedins get re-signed. 'Tis going to be a great event to behold.
Oh, I don't doubt it.

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02-11-2013, 08:56 PM
  #322
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How about Matt Beattie or 6th for Mattias Tedenby?

He just doesn't fit NJD's system, he does have talent and has put up good #'s in the AHL. He would probably fit our system.

He is a risk/reward pickup that has little risk and there the potential for a good reward IMO.

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02-11-2013, 09:04 PM
  #323
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Hopefully, if that means they're going to be more assertive out there. What sort of elements do you mean btw?

They certainly seem to be hitting more too.


Elements like Kassian, Weise appearing to be a better fighter than before and their consistency with playing Volpatti, Ballard jumping in to protect a teammate etc...


- Booth settled his own affair with Porter last year.
- We've seen Kesler fight before.
- Bieksa is still Bieksa.
- I think Garrison isn't afraid to hit people hard and stick up for himself.
- Hansen is honey badger.
- Burrows and Lapierre, the latter fighting a few.


It's something that is found throughout the line-up. Not great, but it's there and slowly building. A few more additions will really push this team into the category of being able to handle themselves when the game gets out of hand. All of this without a dedicated fighter on the squad.

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02-11-2013, 09:06 PM
  #324
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How about Matt Beattie or 6th for Mattias Tedenby?

He just doesn't fit NJD's system, he does have talent and has put up good #'s in the AHL. He would probably fit our system.

He is a risk/reward pickup that has little risk and there the potential for a good reward IMO.

For a 6th rounder? Sure. Doubt he goes for that little.


I still like the idea of getting Eller. Get both!

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02-11-2013, 09:08 PM
  #325
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For a 6th rounder? Sure. Doubt he goes for that little.


I still like the idea of getting Eller. Get both!
Well from talking to Devils fans, I get the sense he has little to no value.

A devils fan told me: a 5th, 6th or project forward. I proposed Beattie as he is from NJ, is big and fits there system.

His value is really low right now. I would give up Beattie rather than the 5th this year though.

a 6th I would be on board for.

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