HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

JFJ's Assists.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-11-2013, 11:36 AM
  #101
therealkoho
Gary says it's A-OK
 
therealkoho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the Prior
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
I don't know what else they could have traded him for but I do know that Raycroft was a bad decision, even a 2nd round pick would have been better.

Raycroft was a failure and was gone for nothing within two years. They traded a top prospect for a goalie who lost his starting job the year before, posted a 3.71GAA and a .879 SV% and a record of 8-19-2. Even though the Bruins weren't very good that year Thomas was able to put up a 2.77GAA and .917SV% and Toivonen 2.63 and .914. while combining for a 21-18-14 record.

You're making it sound like you think there were 2 options, lose his rights for nothing or trade him for Raycroft. Is that what you think was the case?
they needed a starting goalie tout suite, Raycroft was readily available

thats the problem with hindsight as I mentioned earlier, everyone has it which makes everyone think they know better

if they did know better then they might inddeed be the ones with their own threads subject to getting castigated for their actions by people who think they know better



Last edited by therealkoho: 02-11-2013 at 11:45 AM.
therealkoho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:37 AM
  #102
LordRamsay
Come out and flay
 
LordRamsay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 905
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,337
vCash: 500
Yep, under JFJ the amateur scouting was excellent. It's too bad he traded Tuukka Rask for Raycroft and a 1st rounder + for Toskala.

LordRamsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:40 AM
  #103
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 56,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRamsay View Post
Yep, under JFJ the amateur scouting was excellent. It's too bad he traded Tuukka Rask for Raycroft and a 1st rounder + for Toskala.
I think we can blame JFj for the results of the Kessel deal. Burke looked at Toskala and thought he saw a starter there as well. If JFj doesn't make the Toskala deal, maybe Burke brings in a keeper before doing the Kessel trade?

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:43 AM
  #104
therealkoho
Gary says it's A-OK
 
therealkoho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the Prior
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
I don't know what else they could have traded him for but I do know that Raycroft was a bad decision, even a 2nd round pick would have been better.

Raycroft was a failure and was gone for nothing within two years. They traded a top prospect for a goalie who lost his starting job the year before, posted a 3.71GAA and a .879 SV% and a record of 8-19-2. Even though the Bruins weren't very good that year Thomas was able to put up a 2.77GAA and .917SV% and Toivonen 2.63 and .914. while combining for a 21-18-14 record.

You're making it sound like you think there were 2 options, lose his rights for nothing or trade him for Raycroft. Is that what you think was the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
So what your saying is JFJ traded him over a 170 000 in gaurenteed NHL salary and bonus money he had little chance of earning . If you're right he's a bigger idiot than i thought .

Also why wouldn't he expect to be paid more than a 3rd rounder like Pogge ?
one of the reasons they brought in a sliding scale on entry level contracts is because of players getting 5m in guaranteed money on those very same entry level deals

with the salary cap teams had to be a little more responsible in doling out the money lets not forget the Leafs were maxed out at that time because of past mistakes and had to be somewhat sensitive to anything effecting the cap

but hey this is the internet and you're probably right

therealkoho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:48 AM
  #105
LordRamsay
Come out and flay
 
LordRamsay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 905
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,337
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I think we can blame JFj for the results of the Kessel deal. Burke looked at Toskala and thought he saw a starter there as well. If JFj doesn't make the Toskala deal, maybe Burke brings in a keeper before doing the Kessel trade?
If JFJ doesn't do the Toskala deal, he might have lasted a couple more seasons as GM than he did. I mean, Toskala was bad...really bad.

LordRamsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:51 AM
  #106
Deebo
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
thats the problem with hindsight as I mentioned earlier, everyone has it which makes everyone think they know better

if they did know better then they might inddeed be the ones with their own threads subject to getting castigated for their actions by people who think they know better

Do you or do you not think there were other options besides trading Rask for a back-up goalie and losing his rights for nothing?

If you aren't going to address anything that is said to you and instead just restate the excuses you are making for a bad deal, let me know now and I'll move on from this discussion.

Deebo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:12 PM
  #107
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,301
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
one of the reasons they brought in a sliding scale on entry level contracts is because of players getting 5m in guaranteed money on those very same entry level deals

with the salary cap teams had to be a little more responsible in doling out the money lets not forget the Leafs were maxed out at that time because of past mistakes and had to be somewhat sensitive to anything effecting the cap

but hey this is the internet and you're probably right
Everyone knows why they capped rookie salaries but that has nothing to do with this discussion .

So the Leafs were maxed out but they had no problem paying Raycroft and then adding Tosk the following year ( which would have been Rasks 1st full year in the league ) yet couldn't afford to pay Rask who would have had a smaller cap hit and earned less than both .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:15 PM
  #108
Jerkini
Registered User
 
Jerkini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRamsay View Post
If JFJ doesn't do the Toskala deal, he might have lasted a couple more seasons as GM than he did. I mean, Toskala was bad...really bad.
Toskala's first year with the Leafs was actually semi-respectable. He was better that year than Andrew Raycroft ever was for the Leafs, but I guess that's not saying much. He certainly fell off the face of the earth after that, though.

Jerkini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:31 PM
  #109
dcervi*
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 288
vCash: 500
was OP trying to spell 'Assests"?

dcervi* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:44 PM
  #110
Giuseppe Sallo
ELE-VAT-ED
 
Giuseppe Sallo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakville, Ontario.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,639
vCash: 500
JFJ did not get the job done. I disliked him. Feels like this team has been rebuilding forever. What if Tallon had the opportunity to manage this team? I've been more impressed what he has done to two teams than JFJ/Burkie have combined.

Giuseppe Sallo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 06:01 PM
  #111
ForSpareParts*
agreement
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
Four players drafted in 2006 are now regular Leafs:

2/44 - Nikolai Kulemin

4/99 - James Reimer

4/111 - Korbinan Holzer

6/180 - Leo Komarov


With Stalberg and Tlusty also taking regular NHL shifts this was a great haul by JFJ and Co. that year. Six of seven of his selections are now regular NHLers.

Only two in 2007:

4/99 - Matt Frattin

7/194 - Carl Gunnarsson


But that is no small contribution to the club's present make-up.

Burke was certainly right in giving credit where credit was due. And it's a testament to just how important patience and development can be.
No way am I going to go along with this. This is a decent amount of average NHLers. which one is going to the Hall of Fame or even good enough to be an all star?

Why don't we just pay tribute to every GM ever for drafting a bunch of average players?

ForSpareParts* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 08:59 PM
  #112
ITM
Registered User
 
ITM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McClements New A View Post
No way am I going to go along with this. This is a decent amount of average NHLers. which one is going to the Hall of Fame or even good enough to be an all star?

Why don't we just pay tribute to every GM ever for drafting a bunch of average players?
OK, lol. You don't have to.

You can certainly opt for that, but my thinking was, let's highlight the positive in a typically negative discussion, namely all things JFJ. And given that Toronto as a norm hasn't really developed many homegrown players that have contributed all at once -- in recent memory -- I thought it was good way to see the positives as positives seem to be mounting up for this club...Excluding Reimer tonight of course.

ITM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 09:02 PM
  #113
ITM
Registered User
 
ITM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BodaciousBeefBazooka View Post
was OP trying to spell 'Assests"?
What's are "assests"?

ITM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 09:04 PM
  #114
ITM
Registered User
 
ITM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
JFJ did not get the job done. I disliked him. Feels like this team has been rebuilding forever. What if Tallon had the opportunity to manage this team? I've been more impressed what he has done to two teams than JFJ/Burkie have combined.
Man certainly puts together the semblance of hope quickly doesn't he?

I would have loved to been a fly on the wall the day the decision was made to trade Rask. I howled when the news broke. Unlike Seguin or Hamilton for example, that was a bird in the hand. We had him.

Ugh..

ITM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 09:18 PM
  #115
leafsfuture
Registered User
 
leafsfuture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
Man certainly puts together the semblance of hope quickly doesn't he?

I would have loved to been a fly on the wall the day the decision was made to trade Rask. I howled when the news broke. Unlike Seguin or Hamilton for example, that was a bird in the hand. We had him.

Ugh..
And we actually got a star back in the kessel deal

leafsfuture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 09:22 PM
  #116
ITM
Registered User
 
ITM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
And we actually got a star back in the kessel deal
Absolutely.

ITM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:43 PM
  #117
Rockinz
Leafs 4 the cup
 
Rockinz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leaf Land
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,111
vCash: 500
JFJ did a decent job in the later rounds and was definitely swinging for the fences on boom or bust picks...

Too bad he couldn't figure out the 1st round to save his life... Either trading the pick or blowing it, except Rask that he eventually blew on Raycroft...

Rockinz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 12:14 AM
  #118
therealkoho
Gary says it's A-OK
 
therealkoho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the Prior
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
Do you or do you not think there were other options besides trading Rask for a back-up goalie and losing his rights for nothing?

If you aren't going to address anything that is said to you and instead just restate the excuses you are making for a bad deal, let me know now and I'll move on from this discussion.

then move on lil buddy, you've added nothing

therealkoho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 10:35 AM
  #119
Deebo
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
then move on lil buddy, you've added nothing
That's what I thought, you have no interest in discussion.

You just want to make excuses for what was obviously a bad deal and throw in some condescending ******** to go along with it, you'll make a fine addition to my ignore list.

******.

Deebo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 12:19 AM
  #120
Winreims
Registered User
 
Winreims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
JFJ signed and aquired a few big name players who were on there last legs . Guys like Chara/Savard/Pronger were all UFA's among others that could have been signed . JFJ was in over his head imo and had no business ever being hired .
I answered with this which got no response:

Quote:
In the offseason before 2005-06 Chara was a member of the Sens, Savard was a member of the Thrashers and Pronger was TRADED to the Oilers.
Now tell me, how could JFJ have gotten those players after the lockout when they weren't UFA's? I hope I'm not "spinning your words" or anything..

Winreims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 02:30 AM
  #121
pooleboy
#tankformcdavid
 
pooleboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockinz View Post
JFJ did a decent job in the later rounds and was definitely swinging for the fences on boom or bust picks...

Too bad he couldn't figure out the 1st round to save his life... Either trading the pick or blowing it, except Rask that he eventually blew on Raycroft...
the only thing jfj did right was he he didn't trade our 2-7th round picks only our top picks and prospects.... and our scouting staff has been doing a wonderful job... it wasn't jfj at all.

pooleboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 02:40 AM
  #122
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,301
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
I answered with this which got no response:



Now tell me, how could JFJ have gotten those players after the lockout when they weren't UFA's? I hope I'm not "spinning your words" or anything..
Who the **** said he had to aquire them after the lockout ? I never put a time frame on it and i'm wondering why you felt he couldn't try to sign them when they did become available ?

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 02:45 AM
  #123
Winreims
Registered User
 
Winreims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Who the **** said he had to aquire them after the lockout ? I never put a time frame on it and i'm wondering why you felt he couldn't try to sign them when they did become available ?
We were talking about the season right after the lockout! I mentioned some decent signings that JFJ made and your rebuttal was that good UFA's like Chara/Savard were out there. Don't spin the situation here..

Chara wasn't coming here because of the Ott/Tor connection and Pronger wasn't a UFA, he was traded.

Winreims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 03:20 AM
  #124
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,301
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
We were talking about the season right after the lockout! I mentioned some decent signings that JFJ made and your rebuttal was that good UFA's like Chara/Savard were out there. Don't spin the situation here..

Chara wasn't coming here because of the Ott/Tor connection and Pronger wasn't a UFA, he was traded.
I don't what the **** you were talking about but i was talking about jr's entire tenure here .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 03:22 AM
  #125
Winreims
Registered User
 
Winreims's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I don't what the **** you were talking about .
I can tell, believe me ...

Winreims is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.