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2013 Draft Discussion (Mar. 29 article, post #976)

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Old
02-04-2013, 01:53 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
Personally I like MacKinnon a lot more than Drouin.

I don't think the Flyers will wind up with a top 5 pick though. There are too many bad teams that I think will finish below them in the standings. I don't think that their cup contenders either though, just not bad enough to be in the top 5. Of course, the draft lottery has changed, so if they don't make the playoffs, who knows.
It's also a very short season though. Over a full season, things tend to work themselves out (most of the teams that should make the playoffs do and most that shouldn't don't). There is time to makeup for slumps by the good teams, and times for bad teams to cool off from hot streaks. After 48 games last year, the Leafs would have made the playoffs instead of being in the cellar and the Coyotes would have had a top ten pick instead of being in the playoffs. There was also a lot of movement between the bottom of the barrell teams in terms of shifting between contending for playoffs or being in the cellar at the 48 game mark or vice versa.

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Old
02-04-2013, 01:55 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Question: under the new lottery rules, I know the max 4-spot increase is gone, but is there a maximum number of spots teams can fall? I couldn't find the answer online. I'm probably blind.
i think the order would be based on your finish, with the team that wins the lottery just jumping to the #1 pick. for example, say the bottom 10 teams looks like this.

Columbus
Florida
Carolina
Washington
Calgary
Philadelphia
Anaheim
Montreal
Buffalo
Nashville

and then say we won the Lottery, the order would be

Philadelphia
Columbus
Florida
Carolina
Washington
Calgary
Anaheim
Montreal
Buffalo
Nashville

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02-04-2013, 01:56 PM
  #103
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This was the hardest thing to find out about the draft lottery. The only thing that's for certain is that all non playoff teams have a shot for the 1st overall pick. Catch is no one knows how the odds are weighted yet. And I have no clue what happens to the rest of the draft order. Logic would dictate that it should go by records but I guess we'll see.

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02-04-2013, 03:23 PM
  #104
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Seth Jones would solve so many problems for this organization. We have lacked a player of his caliber(d prospect) for some time now. If this is the year they have to tank, the fan base seems willing to let it happen due to injuries, shortened season, etc. Like other have been saying, if we do stink it up we could very well end up with 3 first rounders. We could pair a first rounder(if we get it from a playoff team or a contender) and our 2nd rounder to move up and try to snag another one of those top dman. Jones +Zadorov/Pulock/Risto/Nurse/Hagg would be a great draft. Doesn't even matter what we do later on in the draft lol.

Please I just want Jones on this team.

Also Button has a new list out for February. 75 top players. Huge drop for Shea Theodore.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649


Last edited by Prongo: 02-04-2013 at 03:28 PM.
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Old
02-04-2013, 04:29 PM
  #105
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I was born the exact same day as Adam Erne, I think it's a sign!


I would do a back flip if we got Jones, hes a stud.

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02-04-2013, 06:07 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by daynus View Post
with rist on your list flyguy. your list was pretty darn good. it is just my personal thoughts on rist. but if we lose to tampa again, we will be sitting back in drouin territory. i think 1-3 is set pretty solid, jones,mac,drouin. personally i like drouin over mac. at 4 i would have to go rist i would consider him bpa at that point. central scouting is not a lock by anymeans. we went off the radar forsberg at 6 and giroux at 22. so i for sure trust our scouts.
I'm by no means an expert. Unlike football and basketball, I can't really see these kids play on a regular basis. Small sample sizes and a lot of reading up on them. I could be wrong about Ristolainen. That's just my opinion. I still think he's a good player and I wouldn't be mad about taking him (depending on where we select of course). I tend to agree with Button a lot more than most and he has Ristolainen ranked 20th FWIW. Another thing to consider is he is just 2 months younger than countryman Olli Maatta. It shouldn't be held entirely against him, but he's had an extra year to develop unlike most of his classmates and that is something to consider when evaluating a prospect.

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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I like drouin a lot too, but I'm always wary of smaller guys, especially wingers, and their ability to translate their offense to the nhl level. He is an awesome talent though.
I'm not. The kids so smart and has some incredible hands. He may not seem big, but he's got a decent build for a 17 year old with that kind of frame. This kid is on Giroux's level of skill. I usually tend to value centers more than wingers, but this kid would make me think long and hard if the decision came down to he vs. MacKinnon. That and he was a center growing up before switching to the wing when he came to Halifax, so it's not impossible to see him move back to center in the future a la Giroux.


Last edited by FLYguy3911: 02-04-2013 at 06:14 PM.
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Old
02-05-2013, 12:38 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
i think the order would be based on your finish, with the team that wins the lottery just jumping to the #1 pick. for example, say the bottom 10 teams looks like this.

Columbus
Florida
Carolina
Washington
Calgary
Philadelphia
Anaheim
Montreal
Buffalo
Nashville

and then say we won the Lottery, the order would be

Philadelphia
Columbus
Florida
Carolina
Washington
Calgary
Anaheim
Montreal
Buffalo
Nashville
Thanks, Orange. I guess I wasn't missing the official rules after all. I'm expecting the Flyers to be among the worst-weighted given the recent string of playoff appearances.

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02-05-2013, 12:46 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
I'm by no means an expert. Unlike football and basketball, I can't really see these kids play on a regular basis. Small sample sizes and a lot of reading up on them. I could be wrong about Ristolainen. That's just my opinion. I still think he's a good player and I wouldn't be mad about taking him (depending on where we select of course). I tend to agree with Button a lot more than most and he has Ristolainen ranked 20th FWIW. Another thing to consider is he is just 2 months younger than countryman Olli Maatta. It shouldn't be held entirely against him, but he's had an extra year to develop unlike most of his classmates and that is something to consider when evaluating a prospect.



I'm not. The kids so smart and has some incredible hands. He may not seem big, but he's got a decent build for a 17 year old with that kind of frame. This kid is on Giroux's level of skill. I usually tend to value centers more than wingers, but this kid would make me think long and hard if the decision came down to he vs. MacKinnon. That and he was a center growing up before switching to the wing when he came to Halifax, so it's not impossible to see him move back to center in the future a la Giroux.
Huh?

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840

He's ranked 7th. Josh Morrissey is 20th.

All I have is what I have read, but it seems that most agree he is the 2nd most talented defender behind Jones. He played in the WJC as a 16 turned 17 yr old two seasons ago (and was their top defender), and yet again carried the Finland. I just can't see how he is limited already, when everything is showing he is continuously progressing in his game.

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02-05-2013, 12:48 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Those rankings are compiled by Bobby Mac based on rankings he gets from 10 different scouts. The analysis Button provides isn't a reflection upon his own personal rankings which are here

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

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Old
02-05-2013, 12:51 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by chinatown81592 View Post
Those rankings are compiled by Bobby Mac based on rankings he gets from 10 different scouts. The analysis Button provides isn't a reflection upon his own personal rankings which are here

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649
Ahh ok. Well I like Button cause he goes against the flow, but obviously I disagree with that. Only list anywhere where I see Rist out of the top 10.

I see it like this:

MacKinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Lindholm
Monahan
Ristolainen
Nichushkin

With Zadarov, Mantha, Nurse, Wennberg, Burakowsky fighting for the last two top 10 spots.


Last edited by sa cyred: 02-05-2013 at 12:58 PM.
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Old
02-05-2013, 01:05 PM
  #111
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Here's Craig's explanation on his ranking of Ristolainen.

I'm quite curious about Rasmus Ristolainen. 20th on your list, often around 7th or 8th on other lists (including McKenzie's recent rankings).Is there something critical that you find is lacking in his game? Or is this draft just that deep?

Craig Button: First, I think this draft is deep. Second, there is a lot of emphasis on the number beside the player and I try to ensure that I have players in their proper grouping. For example, on my list I have a grouping of players that I see as quite similar in potential from 8 to 20 or so. Rasmus is in that group and if somebody said to me, 'he really should be 8 or 9 or 12, I would see that argument and not raise much of a fuss. As for Rasmus specifically, I see an NHL player who will play a long time and the range of player comparable I have for him is Brent Seabrook to Derek Morris and some teams may see something better or something not quite as good but that is where I am at this time on him.

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Old
02-05-2013, 02:03 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Here's Craig's explanation on his ranking of Ristolainen.

I'm quite curious about Rasmus Ristolainen. 20th on your list, often around 7th or 8th on other lists (including McKenzie's recent rankings).Is there something critical that you find is lacking in his game? Or is this draft just that deep?

Craig Button: First, I think this draft is deep. Second, there is a lot of emphasis on the number beside the player and I try to ensure that I have players in their proper grouping. For example, on my list I have a grouping of players that I see as quite similar in potential from 8 to 20 or so. Rasmus is in that group and if somebody said to me, 'he really should be 8 or 9 or 12, I would see that argument and not raise much of a fuss. As for Rasmus specifically, I see an NHL player who will play a long time and the range of player comparable I have for him is Brent Seabrook to Derek Morris and some teams may see something better or something not quite as good but that is where I am at this time on him.
That's kind of a copout explanation if you ask me. "I have him as 20, I'd agree if he was 8th, and teams might see him as better worse."

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Old
02-05-2013, 02:22 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Huh?

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840

He's ranked 7th. Josh Morrissey is 20th.

All I have is what I have read, but it seems that most agree he is the 2nd most talented defender behind Jones. He played in the WJC as a 16 turned 17 yr old two seasons ago (and was their top defender), and yet again carried the Finland. I just can't see how he is limited already, when everything is showing he is continuously progressing in his game.
I'm being picky but he played as a 17 and 18 year old at the wjcs. He has a late birthday. Two months younger than Olli Maatta. Maatta played as a 16 year old.

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Old
02-05-2013, 02:24 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Here's Craig's explanation on his ranking of Ristolainen.

I'm quite curious about Rasmus Ristolainen. 20th on your list, often around 7th or 8th on other lists (including McKenzie's recent rankings).Is there something critical that you find is lacking in his game? Or is this draft just that deep?

Craig Button: First, I think this draft is deep. Second, there is a lot of emphasis on the number beside the player and I try to ensure that I have players in their proper grouping. For example, on my list I have a grouping of players that I see as quite similar in potential from 8 to 20 or so. Rasmus is in that group and if somebody said to me, 'he really should be 8 or 9 or 12, I would see that argument and not raise much of a fuss. As for Rasmus specifically, I see an NHL player who will play a long time and the range of player comparable I have for him is Brent Seabrook to Derek Morris and some teams may see something better or something not quite as good but that is where I am at this time on him.
The explanation that I've seen is that Button is basing his rankings off of what he thinks they will be in the NHL, not where they are right now. He sees Ristolainen as a high floor, lower ceiling player that is basically a lock to be a top 4 defenseman, but may never be anything better than a good #3. On the other hand, I think he sees a guy like Zadorov that is a more raw prospect than Ristolainen right now, but has a higher ceiling and will be able to reach that potential.

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02-05-2013, 02:28 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
The explanation that I've seen is that Button is basing his rankings off of what he thinks they will be in the NHL, not where they are right now. He sees Ristolainen as a high floor, lower ceiling player that is basically a lock to be a top 4 defenseman, but may never be anything better than a good #3. On the other hand, I think he sees a guy like Zadorov that is a more raw prospect than Ristolainen right now, but has a higher ceiling and will be able to reach that potential.
This is true here. Button ranks his prospects in order of how he thinks they will thrive in the NHL. Some might be ahead of other right now, but Button lists his players as he seems fit to have the best NHL careers.

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02-05-2013, 06:10 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
The explanation that I've seen is that Button is basing his rankings off of what he thinks they will be in the NHL, not where they are right now. He sees Ristolainen as a high floor, lower ceiling player that is basically a lock to be a top 4 defenseman, but may never be anything better than a good #3. On the other hand, I think he sees a guy like Zadorov that is a more raw prospect than Ristolainen right now, but has a higher ceiling and will be able to reach that potential.
Yeah he does. He has a chat answering questions about his list and the prospects. I got that from the prospect board. I guess someone from over there asked him about Ristolainen.

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02-11-2013, 08:16 PM
  #117
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This team needs help.

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02-11-2013, 08:17 PM
  #118
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Maybe we should phone Jones and let him know we're coming.

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02-11-2013, 08:25 PM
  #119
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Nurse is another defender to watch as the draft nears. Size and is a good skater. Offense is there and is a good puck mover. Of course I never seen him play, but from what I have read about him, could be a pretty damn good player in the future.

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02-11-2013, 08:47 PM
  #120
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Nurse is another defender to watch as the draft nears. Size and is a good skater. Offense is there and is a good puck mover. Of course I never seen him play, but from what I have read about him, could be a pretty damn good player in the future.
Very poor man's Seth Jones. Big and rangy, athletic, good skater. Jones is much much more polished, especially offensively. I like Nurse. He's a guy who if we're picking around 10 would have to be in consideration. Whether he develops into a potential #1 will depend on how far his offense continues to develop. If not he has shutdown capabilities. He's also Donovan McNabb's nephew.

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02-11-2013, 08:51 PM
  #121
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This team needs a #1 defenseman in the worse way. Too bad we are years from it.

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02-11-2013, 08:57 PM
  #122
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This team needs a #1 defenseman in the worse way. Too bad we are years from it.
Outside of Pronger, when was the last time we had a true #1 d-man?

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02-11-2013, 08:58 PM
  #123
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Outside of Jones, I think Nurse is my favorite defenseman in the draft. He'd be my target if we're in the 10-20 range.

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02-11-2013, 09:01 PM
  #124
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Outside of Pronger, when was the last time we had a true #1 d-man?
Timonen in 07-08 maybe?

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02-11-2013, 09:41 PM
  #125
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Interesting prospect is forward Nic Petan from the Portland Winterhawks. Kid kind of came out of no where this year. He leads the whole CHL with 100 points.

He's a bit undersized though so I'm curious to see what round he goes in.

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