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All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 2.0

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:19 AM
  #651
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I think there's still a 10% cap cushion in the offseason... why wouldn't the Habs be able to trade Gionta after signing Perry? I guess that's counter to the spirit of this thread, but doesn't it seem like a safer way to approach 2013-14?
When you trade a vet you have three chances to win; by trading a vet in the off-season you lose two of those chances.

Gionta could mean finishing in 10th rather than finishing 13th, and he also has more trade value during the season.

ETA: A guy like Gionta with a bad contract is not always tradeable, so trade him when you can.

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02-11-2013, 06:25 AM
  #652
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Can't see us getting good young players in return for Cole, Gionta, and Kaberle, only picks and we don't have the depth in Hamilton to replace them.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:29 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
Can't see us getting good young players in return for Cole, Gionta, and Kaberle, only picks and we don't have the depth in Hamilton to replace them.
Well then trade them for a bag of pucks.

I know that they have NTCs, hopefully they're not so soft that they won't waive their NTCs.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:41 AM
  #654
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And replace them with Moen-like players @ 4 yr contracts?

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:58 AM
  #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
Can't see us getting good young players in return for Cole, Gionta, and Kaberle, only picks and we don't have the depth in Hamilton to replace them.
Last year we could have gotten something from cole, if he decides to start playing we could sell him at the trade deadline.

I agree with you that we don't have anyone in Hamilton that can step into a top 6 role, Louis Leblanc is a candidate however since his play last year was good enough to earn him a spot.

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02-11-2013, 07:05 AM
  #656
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Gionta and Cole both didn't play anywhere during the lockout, not surprising that they've struggled so far. Even if they don't put up points they are great veterans to have around our young guys (Cole has had a nice impact on Max and Gio has been great for Gallagher). You need at least SOME veterans around and their trade values won't be that high, those 2 are more valuable to us than in a trade.

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02-11-2013, 07:13 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
MB should have signed PK long term. I bet it would have come cheaper. Now he might end up coasting us major dollars in a year and a half. Its going to tie up extra money we could use rebuilding the team.
We will not be rebuilding in two years.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:20 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I'd love for someone to come with a team that did this, just one in the history of the NHL...
Classic: You pick a very particular case, and say that it has never been done before, so we should not do it.

Remind me not to hire you at my design office.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:27 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by blarneylad View Post
Corey Perry is a weird dude though. I met him at a bar, he was with his G/F (local girl) and followed her around. Super shy awkward guy. Very weak handshake and me at 5'11 made him nervous talking to him. It was one of the most awkward meetings of an NHL hockey player I've ever been involved in or heard of.

Based on my 30 seconds talking to him he seems like a weird dude. I was one of two guys in the bar that realized who he was. He was like a ghost hiding in the shadows.
So what? The guy is a pure goal scorer in the NHL. I don't care if he wears a dress at home. Useless post.

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02-11-2013, 07:44 AM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
Can't see us getting good young players in return for Cole, Gionta, and Kaberle, only picks and we don't have the depth in Hamilton to replace them.
It wont matter, it will make sure we finish real low in the standings.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:53 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
Do you think TT and company will be focusing on forwards at the draft? With 4 picks in the top 2 rounds, we should be able to pick up some nice complementary pieces (Top6) and depending where we finish possibly some Elite talent. Just how far does the elite talent go in the first round? Also, we could amass even more picks if we trade some of our struggling vets.
I think they'll draft the best player available like they always do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
The only question in this thread should be "How much money can we possibly throw at Getzlaf or Perry in July?".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a believer in big money UFAs. Most of the time you're paying for reputation of once great, declining superstars. But 28 year old 6'4'' 220lb centers and 6'3'' 50 goal scorers don't hit the market every summer. With some soon expiring contracts and potential buyouts (Kaberle), our cap situation is pretty good. I'd actually be more comfortable paying Perry, as I find Getzlaf has been underwhelming recently but it's hard to ignore a guy who plays a position that's been our greatest weakness for 20 years.
Perry would be great, Getzlaff not so much. First they'd have to leave Anaheim though and second we'd have to get them to sign. I personally don't see it happening but adding Perry would definitely help. But it would be 7 years each at the max to bring them here. I don't know if its worth it for Perry and I definitely don't think Getzlaff would be worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I would trade Price and Subban for them right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
I'm just gonna put it out there, we should have traded cole at the deadline last year.

If ****ing Paul gaustad got a 1st, cole would have gotten a lot considering he was Stanley cup winning vet on an absolute tear scoring thirty goals. Being a power forward helps too, every team could use a player like him if you want to go deep in the playoffs.
I agree. And I hope that we learn our lesson and deal Bourque.

I still can't believe we didn't push for a 1st for Cammy. I still see that as a huge waste of an asset. I actually wouldn't have minded taking Bourque back if it meant getting the 1st. And if that's the best Calgary would do we should've shopped him around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blarneylad View Post
Corey Perry is a weird dude though. I met him at a bar, he was with his G/F (local girl) and followed her around. Super shy awkward guy. Very weak handshake and me at 5'11 made him nervous talking to him. It was one of the most awkward meetings of an NHL hockey player I've ever been involved in or heard of.

Based on my 30 seconds talking to him he seems like a weird dude. I was one of two guys in the bar that realized who he was. He was like a ghost hiding in the shadows.
He was probably just weirded out because you were standing there in drag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I think there's still a 10% cap cushion in the offseason... why wouldn't the Habs be able to trade Gionta after signing Perry? I guess that's counter to the spirit of this thread, but doesn't it seem like a safer way to approach 2013-14?
We could just hang onto him for leadership/mentoring purposes. If we get offered something for him fine but I don't see teams knocking on our door for him. It was a stupid signing.

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Old
02-11-2013, 08:04 AM
  #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I would trade Price and Subban for them right now.
Surely you jest.

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Old
02-11-2013, 08:16 AM
  #663
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huge few weeks coming up, will dictate the direction we take approaching trade deadline.

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:05 AM
  #664
ECWHSWI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Classic: You pick a very particular case, and say that it has never been done before, so we should not do it.

Remind me not to hire you at my design office.
So, what you're saying is, of all the GMs that were part of a NHL team in the whole NHL history, none of them ever did this... but you guys got this idea, a revolutionnary one, and guess what... it's a crazy good one too, right ?

god damn, I didnt know there was so many genius on this board!

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:21 AM
  #665
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
huge few weeks coming up, will dictate the direction we take approaching trade deadline.
Really shouldn't...

While any team can win any year (especially with a goalie like Price), our roster isn't deep or skilled enough to view this year as anything more than an opportunity to further build roster depth/talent.

Add the shortened season factor, and doing anything but making longterm focused moves would be foolish & indication that the new leadership is not any more focused than the previous group.

Aside from Pleks, gorges & Markov(always listening of course), all of our vets should be shopped, cole and gionta should only be moved for quality returns, but bourque/kaberle/bouillon/Armstrong/moen/budaj should all be available for any return involving picks or reclamation projects (young guys like ellerby, who have failed to live up to expectations)

If we can come out of the deadline with 2-3 more top-90 picks, and a prospect/young nhler or two, I've got no problem finishing the year with guys like Eller & weber getting bigger minutes/roles... Even if we miss the playoffs in the process (which we could easily end up doing while standing pat)

Next year, we should no longer see in our lineup:
1 or 2 of bourque/cole/gionta
Both kaberle & bouillon
1 or both of moen/Armstrong

the more we can squeeze out of the guys who will be moving on, the better.

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Old
02-11-2013, 08:32 PM
  #666
Lafleurs Guy
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Well who knows? The club looked great early on and 2 out of the last three losses could easily be wins so maybe we'll do better than we expect.

Regardless I'd still like to stack the deck if we can.

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Old
02-11-2013, 08:40 PM
  #667
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I'm breaking the roster down by availability:
Must keep- core players, keep at all costs
Should keep- players that should be kept unless they're packaged for a significant upgrade
Available- should be dealt this year
Totally available- fans will drive them to the airport to send them off

Must keep: Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gorges, Markov, Emelin, Prust, White
Should keep: Gallagher, Plekanec, Desharnais, Bouillon, Diaz, Moen, Weber, Bourque, Eller
Available: Cole, Gionta
Totally available: Kaberle, Armstrong

I would have liked to put Gallagher in the must keep, but then I thought, if a guy like Perry is available, would I deal him, and the answer is yes. Moen should be kept, so should Bourque. You're not gonna be given enough to let them go.

White is young and should be kept at all costs. We need youthful toughness to grow with the team as it gains experience. Some people will think I'm advocating keeping White over Plekanec or Gallagher. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying those two give a value that should allow us to get a significant player back. White isn't someone who'll get that level of interest, so I keep him.

Out of our Must Keeps, 4 of those players are or can be superstar caliber. Our aim should be to convert everyone else into 3 more.

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Old
02-11-2013, 08:44 PM
  #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Really shouldn't...

While any team can win any year (especially with a goalie like Price), our roster isn't deep or skilled enough to view this year as anything more than an opportunity to further build roster depth/talent.

Add the shortened season factor, and doing anything but making longterm focused moves would be foolish & indication that the new leadership is not any more focused than the previous group.

Aside from Pleks, gorges & Markov(always listening of course), all of our vets should be shopped, cole and gionta should only be moved for quality returns, but bourque/kaberle/bouillon/Armstrong/moen/budaj should all be available for any return involving picks or reclamation projects (young guys like ellerby, who have failed to live up to expectations)

If we can come out of the deadline with 2-3 more top-90 picks, and a prospect/young nhler or two, I've got no problem finishing the year with guys like Eller & weber getting bigger minutes/roles... Even if we miss the playoffs in the process (which we could easily end up doing while standing pat)

Next year, we should no longer see in our lineup:
1 or 2 of bourque/cole/gionta
Both kaberle & bouillon
1 or both of moen/Armstrong

the more we can squeeze out of the guys who will be moving on, the better.
This post is broccoli & kale juice mixed with flax seeds. It's hard to imagine swallowing and your face will make that squishy expression while you're actually swallowing it, but if you can keep the mixture down you'll end up in much better shape.

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:03 PM
  #669
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You need veterans in the line-up, even when rebuilding. For one thing, the vets take pressure off the young guys and they can be carefully developed, like MT is doing with the Gallys. At the same time, if you have the view that new GMs should have 5 years to put their grand plan into place for a rock bottom team, then it does make sense for MB to trade players for picks. Anybody drafted this year would have a chance to be part of the team within the next 3-4 years, sooner if its a top end talent of course, but that usually means picking high. So aside from really high picks or gems in lower rounds,, its MBs last draft for realistically seeing the players he drafted play for him within the 5 year window. Fortunately hes been given 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds. This gives him flexiblity in going for numbers, or packaging picks for a higher pick.

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:16 PM
  #670
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Just this year OK? Please? This is 2013 boys! This is a 2003 repeat. Teams that will make the right choices this year, will have a chance at being a great team for the next 10 years especially if you already had started some kind of rebuild.

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:49 PM
  #671
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I hope when we arrive near the trade deadline we're either clearly in the playoff picture or way out... For example, MB will need to tread carefully if we're 3 points away from 8th spot

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02-11-2013, 11:11 PM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I hope when we arrive near the trade deadline we're either clearly in the playoff picture or way out... For example, MB will need to tread carefully if we're 3 points away from 8th spot
MB has to think long term. Even if we are close to eight, he needs to unload veterans for draft picks or prospects. We will never win a cup with the team we have right now.

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:27 PM
  #673
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Gionta and Cole both didn't play anywhere during the lockout, not surprising that they've struggled so far. Even if they don't put up points they are great veterans to have around our young guys (Cole has had a nice impact on Max and Gio has been great for Gallagher). You need at least SOME veterans around and their trade values won't be that high, those 2 are more valuable to us than in a trade.
I hate smart phones....******

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:40 PM
  #674
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If detroit offers a 2nd rounder for moen like they did last year do you make the trade?

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:41 PM
  #675
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Hopefully Armstrong stays healthy all year and can be traded at the deadline for a 3rd or 4th rd pick. Bouillon could fetch a 4/5th rd pick as well. Teams love adding these types of depth players at the trade deadline.

I'd consider trading Desharnais if possible as well. Having Plekanec, Galchenyuk, Eller down the middle is solid imo.

This only happens if we are sellers, though I fear we're going to be anywhere form 7-10th and stand pat.

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