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The utter nonsense of blaming anyone but Steve Tambellini.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:44 PM
  #76
belair
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
In fact, I would say people around around vastly overrate the importance coaching overall. Mact was even on the radio the other day saying exactly the same thing - that there are no bad coaches in the league these days, that the players dictate the outcome, not the coaches, and that media and fans overrate the impact coaching has in today's game. Which probably isn't something the adoring Mact fans around Edmonton want to hear since they've perpetuated this myth that the 06 run was Mact was behind the scenes orchestrating events like a grand-chessmaster, and the players were along for the ride. When in reality Mact was far more a spectator than people want to believe.

But it's easy to see why people want to blame coaching, clinging to ideas that if the lines were just right, or the system was different, or if the coach just bag skated them, then things would be different. Because it's much easier to blame a guy standing off the ice who looks like he is in charge, than it is to blame players out on the ice that your average fan is attempting to live their vicarious fantasies through.
While I can't fully discredit MacT's statement, I find it very hard to believe that the game top-to-bottom is completely dictated by the players on the ice. Especially when you see how guys like Barry Trotz have been successful at icing a competitive team.

The Nashville Predators are a perfect example of a team that has had an implemented system that has provided their team with decent scoring depth and has made them a playoff team for the past several seasons.

It's also no secret why our team continues to struggle against teams that play their style of game. And I cringe at the thought of how a guy like Matt Halischuk would suffer in our bottom-six forward group.

Paajarvi's drop in production is another red flag when you consider that his centreman for the mostpart over the past two years has been the aformentioned Belanger. But his game is currently being transformed and his chemistry with Hartikainen is a positive note.

Mac-T is right when there are no bad coaches in the NHL. When you consider the hiring process and vast number of coaches available at the various levels of competition, you literally can't hire a bad one. But you can hire ineffective ones. Which sadly might be a hidden clue as to why he was unable to find a job at the NHL level.

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Old
02-11-2013, 06:44 PM
  #77
402
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Ladies and gentlemen our biweekly fire tambo thread

I will say this though.
while tambo deserves alot of the blame, our top line of very skilled players is heavily underperforming right now. If eberle and nuge were playing to their potentials we would have won many more games already, our coaching staff has to get the underperforming players going

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02-11-2013, 06:47 PM
  #78
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Several things stick out to me in this thread.

1. Nobody knows what goes on behind then scenes with regards to how hard Tambo or management try to acquire quality assets.

2. Edmonton is not a prime FA location. Making your list of quality players shorter. We've been bottom of the barrel, again shortening the list. We have no quality assets to deal, shortening the list again. As much as I want to point fingers, I don't think tambo is completely ******** and if he could obtain some high caliber UFA, he would have.

3. The coach is new and systems will be improved as time goes on.

4. Our lack of scoring is an anomaly due in part to wanting to be fancy, system deficiency and just plain bad luck.

I will let this all play out. I won't get my pitchfork and will see how we do during the next quarter of the season.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:09 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
While I can't fully discredit MacT's statement, I find it very hard to believe that the game top-to-bottom is completely dictated by the players on the ice. Especially when you see how guys like Barry Trotz have been successful at icing a competitive team.

The Nashville Predators are a perfect example of a team that has had an implemented system that has provided their team with decent scoring depth and has made them a playoff team for the past several seasons.

It's also no secret why our team continues to struggle against teams that play their style of game. And I cringe at the thought of how a guy like Matt Halischuk would suffer in our bottom-six forward group.

Paajarvi's drop in production is another red flag when you consider that his centreman for the mostpart over the past two years has been the aformentioned Belanger. But his game is currently being transformed and his chemistry with Hartikainen is a positive note.

Mac-T is right when there are no bad coaches in the NHL. When you consider the hiring process and vast number of coaches available at the various levels of competition, you literally can't hire a bad one. But you can hire ineffective ones. Which sadly might be a hidden clue as to why he was unable to find a job at the NHL level.
Trotz doesn't really have any kind of real unique system, they play a super conservative trap system, always have. But what does make him unique is his ability to sustain the message over such a long period of time, few coaches have ever managed that in the NHL.

Another good example is Ken Hitchcock. He doesn't reinvent defensive hockey when he steps into a new head coaching role and his new teams go on a run, he shocks the system of a team that has gone complacent. Unfortunately for Hitch though, his abrasive style wears off extremely fast compared to a more methodical guy like Trotz, usually within months of his hiring. Which is why the old school coaches are nearly extinct and we are seeing the rise of psycologists and motivational speakers in the coaching ranks.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:23 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Didnt he just sign Hordichuk this summer? Why would he do that if he didnt want Hordichuk?
Personally I thought Hordichuk could still be useful when he was re-signed so I thought it was a good depth signing by Tambo. 12 games in it's apparent that Krueger doesn't have the confidence to play Hordichuk. Better to admit a mistake and clear a roster spot for somebody that the coach will use than to sit on your hands.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:30 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Delicious Pancakes View Post
+1

There are needs but the team's doing pretty well in spite of scoring issues and injuries. ...
I disagree. The team is playing worse from what I have watched. The standings doesn't show the truth and we had a head start with all the players who were in game shape.

Only real improvements I see are Hemsky back to form, Gagner peaking, Dubnyk finally coming around, Smid is a bit better. Nick Schultz wasn't here long enough to judge but seems similar to Smid (except Smid blocks every shot available)

The rest are downhill. Even Hall who has more drive and seems to play a bit safer isn't doing any better. Nuge is turning into a defenseman? Eberle is too famous and too rich? Pjarvi is the same or worse. Whitney? Petry looks worse. Horcoff and Belanger have more energy but less results. Eager? AHL call ups? Smyth is worse.

Yak (who we got because we were so bad) and Schultz (who Gagner goat to come here) don't count because they weren't here.

Tell me who else is better than last year.

Coaching some of course but trades and non trades haven't helped at all. Drafting has been no brainer drafting. So what has Lowebellini done to the good? Yes the players are to blame but who put them here?

Eberle will come around Nuge will get great Yak will shine Hall will be captain Schultz will be awesome but that leaves a lot of problems.

Make some trades and shake em up. Other teams have problems and need a shakeup too so something can be done.

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Old
02-11-2013, 07:39 PM
  #82
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Because its Tambellini's fault Eberle has the puck in prime shooting position and decides skating or dumping it in to the corner is a better idea.

Tambellini can take some of the blame, but you can play basically spin a bottle and whoever it points at can take some of the blame too. Dubnyk, Schultz, Hemsky and Belanger have been bright spots, Gagner I guess, that's about it.

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:06 PM
  #83
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Fine. Blame Tambo. Fire Tambo tomorrow. Break out the party streamers.

5 minutes after that firing, Craig MacTavish or Kevin Lowe is your new GM, both of which were vilified ruthlessly by fans around here during their tenures as coach and GM respectively for their incompetence and nepotism.

The issues facing this organization are a lot more daunting than the letting go of a lame duck (some would say puppet) GM would fix.
Fire Katz?

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02-11-2013, 09:24 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Gone View Post
For the 1,000 th time, KLowe is the problem ... Tambo is an idiot puppet put in place to take the fall for his incompetence. KLowe's arrogance led to the downfall of the organization, and it started with his demand that Comrie pay back his signing bonus. This emotion response negated the trade:

Comrie for Perry, McDonald and a 1st.

The message was KLowe would sewer the organization just to satisfy a personal vendetta. That message was read loud and clear by players and agents league wide. This poison remains with the team today.

Fire KLowe and his puppet Tambo ... both need to go!
I have posted these exact words a couple times but were stuck with this guy (Lowe). Lowe's emotion and inexperience got the best of him, I'm still hoping he has learned over the years as he's a smart guy that just has a passion to win at all costs.

Lowe's compeditive nature does not make for a good G.M. as ya need to build relationships around the league for trades etc..

Notice how well Lowe did as a Coach ? that's where he should have stayed...

We never had problems attraction Free agents when Sather was G.M. (aside from money problems).

We need a shrewd G.M. that's smart and patient.

I'm not giving up on these guys yet (Lowe/Tambo) but this is the last few weeks of my patience. If they can't fill some needs and make the playoffs, clean house.

For all the posters and thier so called 5 year plan, Tambo said the rebuild was over after he picked RNH. He said it at the draft on the exit interview. Things change and it's O.K. to deviate from a plan as it's only a plan. A GOOD plan at that but TIMES UP fella's....

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:31 PM
  #85
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I think the rebuild will be over when they win a playoff round again. That's a good indicator that they are competitive again when it really counts.

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02-11-2013, 09:37 PM
  #86
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too bad for tambo, if he trades hemsky or gagner, where will the offense come from? no guarantee the players he gets produces right away.

do you want to trade the kids? which one?

nobody really wants the bottom 6 players, well not the vets anyway



gregor said a couple weeks ago that there are suitors for whitney, but IMO whoever takes that shot on whitney is an idiot. this guy cant skate, when you cant skate in the nhl, you end up in the AHL. Just ask Giroux, who has amazing talent but cant skate fast enough to keep up in the big league

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02-11-2013, 09:45 PM
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I don't think most teams have a #1 defenseman. There's probably two in our division (Edler and Suter).
Edler + Schroeder for Hall or Eberle

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02-11-2013, 09:47 PM
  #88
oilexport
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too bad for tambo, if he trades hemsky or gagner, where will the offense come from? no guarantee the players he gets produces right away.

do you want to trade the kids? which one?

nobody really wants the bottom 6 players, well not the vets anyway



gregor said a couple weeks ago that there are suitors for whitney, but IMO whoever takes that shot on whitney is an idiot. this guy cant skate, when you cant skate in the nhl, you end up in the AHL. Just ask Giroux, who has amazing talent but cant skate fast enough to keep up in the big league
I trade no one that's producing, we only have a major hole in my opinion and that's a big center that can play hockey and win face-offs. Sit Ryan Smyth as thats addition by subtraction. The Defence is capable enough although Whitney can go, again, addition by subtraction.

We have a Center with 2 broken toes, another with a sore shoulder, another with a broken knuckle. These guys were marginal to begin with (aside from nudge). Not crazy about Sam either but he's doing well so keep him too.

Make a deal for someone down the middle, we really are close to being a good Team that will improve every day...

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Old
02-11-2013, 09:47 PM
  #89
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So, how about you give me a list of ST accomplishments that couldn't have been done by any ordinary hockey fan at minimum wage....I'm assuming they're paying him a couple of hundred thousand so there must be some monumental decisions that the average person couldn't do.

Go ahead with the list. I'm sure there are quite a few folks that would be interested in reading it...
So I point out that your idea that anyone here can do Tambo's job (at the drop of a hat) is the very definition of armchair Gming, and your reply is to ask me to do the very thing i was derisive about??

You're obviously not getting it... If the average person could do what an NHL GM could do, don't you think that team's owners would be recruiting from the forum? Who needs real world experience when you have all these fans that watch hockey games and obviously know, and could do better! That's how the real world works you know....

: laugh:

Going by your logic here, i can watch Bob Ross for a couple of years, and then apply for a management position at the ADAC (Art Dealers Association of Canada), and do a better job than any shmoo that has real experience/degrees etc...

Unbelievable....

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02-11-2013, 09:49 PM
  #90
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Edler + Schroeder for Hall or Eberle
Ummmm no.

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Old
02-11-2013, 10:19 PM
  #91
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Can someone please tell me how anyone could come up with a 5 year plan? We didn't even know who we were going to draft in year one never mind in years 2, 3, 4 or 5. Did we know 3 years ago we were getting Schultz? Did we know Nuge would struggle in his second year? How long will it take our young D to develop and when will they be ready for the NHL? Will they be good enough to win a championship? How good is Doobie's ceiling? Is he a Stanley Cup goal tender? Who are we drafting this year and the next? If we drafted Murray then what pieces would be need to fill in our top 6 to take Yak's place? How can anyone say that 5 years is anything but an arbitrary number when there are so many things that can happen month to month and year to year? If you are building solely through the draft like it appears the Oilers are doing please tell me how you can put a time frame on something that is dependent on something as unpredictable as young hockey players.

I know these things take time and I have always prepared myself for a brutal stretch. This has not been enjoyable and it still isn't and the management team better start filling holes when they get opportunities because there are no sure things. Everyone was saying that IF Hemmer, Gagner, Doobie and Whitney had bounce back years and we stayed fairly healthy we would see some solid improvement. Well, besides Whitney we are looking good with those "IFS". The time is now to start improving and Tambo has more say that anyone when it comes to that. What was our record this time last year?

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02-11-2013, 10:59 PM
  #92
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Oilers are where I thought they would be. An exciting, inconsistent team. I think Tambos patience is what makes him a good gm for the rebuild that we are trying to do.
When both GAgner and Hemsky were not playing up to their capabilities, he held onto them. I think that is smart. He will be able to get much more for them after a good season.
He didn't know what he had with the defense, so he sat on his hands. Again, smart. Why get rid of Whitney now? Give him at least until the trade deadline and see if he can improve his value.
We have a good situation in net because he was patient and showed confidence in Dubnyk. Would he be playing this well if they had traded for a guy like Bernier? Not sure.
When it is time to make a run and we are in the mix for upgrades at the deadline, we may need someone more proactive. Right now, minor (or no) moves are best.
As a side note, I think Horcoffs importance to this team will become apparent to his critics the longer he remains out!

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02-11-2013, 11:01 PM
  #93
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Ummmm no.
I don't really think it's that laughable.

If the Oilers were actually looking to trade either Hall or Eberle that return might be fairly close. Not saying that's a trade I'd make though.

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Old
02-11-2013, 11:31 PM
  #94
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No rebuilding team goes from second last to playoffs. There's an Inbetween phase in there.

I remember the year that Hall and Eberle were rookies there was a thread posted asking what year everyone expected to compete for the playoffs. If I recall correctly, the consensus was: a top 3 selection in 2011, top 5 in 2012, top 10 in 2013 while competing for a playoff spot in April.

I think that's where we are right now. We might not make the playoffs, but we won't be a bottom feeder. Just a few years ago everyone predicted 2013-2014 was the year we were going to compete. It's the five year rebuild plan.

This is the offseason I expect us to go after free agents that will hell the team. We can buy contracts out, Whitney and Khabibulin will be gone and Hall, Eberle, RNH and whatever pieces of the core Gagner, Smid, Schultz will be locked up so management will have an idea of the amount of money try can throw around on the open market.

Perry, Clowe, Scuderi, Horton? Oreilly maybe?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Oilers made a FA splash, or a big trade this offseason. I think the plan all along is to be a playoff team by 2013-2014. Nothing has changed.

Lets not get impatient now.


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Old
02-11-2013, 11:42 PM
  #95
belair
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
No rebuilding team goes from second last to playoffs. There's an Inbetween phase in there.

I remember the year that Hall and Eberle were rookies there was a thread posted asking what year everyone expected to compete for the playoffs. If I recall correctly, the consensus was: a top 3 selection in 2011, top 5 in 2012, top 10 in 2013 while competing for a playoff spot in April.

I think that's where we are right now. We might not make the playoffs, but we won't be a bottom feeder. Just a few years ago everyone predicted 2013-2014 was the year we were going to compete. It's the five year rebuild plan.
I think that was a realistic plan, but a 48-game season alters that. A team suffering detrimental injuries is even more likely to stumble in the standings this season, which makes it possible for one or two teams to sneak in.

All it takes is a good run and you're in IMO.

Mind you, if the Oilers continue to play like they did vs Columbus, you can kiss any thought of the playoffs goodbye.

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02-11-2013, 11:46 PM
  #96
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I think that was a realistic plan, but a 48-game season alters that. A team suffering detrimental injuries is even more likely to stumble in the standings this season, which makes it possible for one or two teams to sneak in.

All it takes is a good run and you're in IMO.

Mind you, if the Oilers continue to play like they did vs Columbus, you can kiss any thought of the playoffs goodbye.
I agree, I personally expected the team to do well In a short season because of how young they are. But I'm pretty happy that although the team hasn't even come close to hitting its stride, they're still near a playoff position. I've also been impressed by players like Dubnyk, Gagner and Hemsky, which is good because you can't ride three 20 year olds.

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02-12-2013, 12:14 AM
  #97
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No rebuilding team goes from second last to playoffs. There's an Inbetween phase in there.
Pittsburgh Penguins 2005-06 season 58 points- 2nd last place(St. Louis 1 point worse)
2006-07 season 105 points (easily in the playoffs with home ice advantage on top of it)

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Old
02-12-2013, 12:16 AM
  #98
SeriousBusiness
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Edler + Schroeder for Hall or Eberle

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02-12-2013, 12:23 AM
  #99
Philly85
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Lol.

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02-12-2013, 12:32 AM
  #100
402
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Pittsburgh Penguins 2005-06 season 58 points- 2nd last place(St. Louis 1 point worse)
2006-07 season 105 points (easily in the playoffs with home ice advantage on top of it)
Don't make me get all Brian Burke on you "they won a ****ing lottery"

the pens don't count they ridiculously lucky.

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