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02-11-2013, 04:20 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by OCSportsfan View Post
Lindholm - They brought him to NA since he was going to get a look like fowler did. Unfortunately he got a concussion, but he needed to get NA experience, even if it was in the AHL. They have not rushed him at all. Now they are being cautious and rather than have him play, hang out with the big club until he is healthy.

Rakell - He will probably be sent down soon enough. No reason not to give him some good knowledge while you can. He cant go to the AHL so I think they are trying to give him as much experience as they can since he is not going to get the high competition in Juniors. In my opinion they dont think keeping him up for the year will help his development.

Devo - This was a unique situation last year. He could not go to the AHL last year, and since he was physically dominate in juniors, I dont think they were confident in his development if they sent him down. He would have gone to the AHL last year if we could have sent him. Now that we can, you see him there. Again, they made a decision about his development, and I think he needs to prove himself in the AHL

We get excited when these guys are playing in the NHL, but in reality, it is often just part of their development. I would not expect Devo to be a regular in the NHL for 2 years, if he can improve.
Exactly! There`s the thing!
So why brought him to here? He needs NHL experience? Yes, he does, but so does every other player (prospect). But why you should put him in a situation like this, where, an 18 yo kid is put in a physical league like this?
Both Girgensons and Lindholm were the youngest players in AHL this year and both were drafted in the last draft. Guess what? Both are sitting with injuries a long time right now.
Him being with the big club is the best thing in this situation, i have no problem with that, i have a problem with the fact that he`s injured.

Rakell have played 4 games in more than a month. He`s 19 yo and he needs to play at that age which is very important to his development. With this tight schedule you also have much less trainings, optional practices etc. I have a hard time believing that this is best thing to do with Rakell.

Devo - maybe he was physically dominant, but he certainly could have developed more offensive skill in juniors. And he is far from being a physical force in the NHL. He tries to hit but if he does, it`s very soft and the oopposing player doesn`t get much more than simply pushed, not hit. I hoped Devo could get better this season, but he didn`t. I rather would have seen him ''dominating'' OHL than playing 8 minutes last year.

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First of all, coming to NA was Lindholm's call, and it made all the sense in the world. Getting used to the small ice and the physical game as soon as possible was a no-brainer. His injuries aren't a result of his body being too fragile. It's not like playing in Sweden could allow him to develop a better resistence to concussions. There's nothing to be done about that, and in every other way, making that move seemed to be the right call in every way.


You say that like it's a fact. There's no universal truth to what's better for a player that age. Sure, for the average kid playing big minutes is more important, as he still has offensive and defensive game to develop at that lower level. I think there's reasonable doubt to what Rakell has left to do in juniors. He plays a pro game. He won't get any better defensively playing against kids. He might learn to be more effective offensively when playing against kids, but that isn't really going to make his game better in the long run. Either way, the biggest thing here is that everybody knows this situation isn't a setup expected to last much longer. Having him around for a couple of weeks absolutely isn't going to hurt him. Add to that the very reasonable thing Boudreau said (via pesko). Most of individual development doesn't happen in the 60 minutes of a game, it happens in the many, many hours of practise between those short games.


Well, he does get that now that he showed he wasn't cutting it. It's not like we kept him around for an entire season playing "8 minutes", neither this nor last year. This time around, he was with the team in camp and to start the year, and he was given a few fair chances to prove he could stay. In the end he did not, and we reacted accordingly and sent him down. Giving him a fair chance to secure the spot he already had last year for not even ten games really isn't "rushing" him by any stretch of the imagination.
You should get experience when you`re ready. Maybe we should call up Roy to the Anaheim and put him in the situation paying against Murray, Greene and other big, physical defenseman? He needs more NHL experience, right? It was far from a no-brainer imo. OEL spent another year in Sweden and he is doing very good. First he got ready and only then went to the NA to get experience - that is how you should do it.
Better resistance to concussions? Yes, playing in Sweden (Euor hockey, bigger rinks, much less physicality) would allow him to build up a little bit, so he could resist more physical power coming at him. He could very well built up more pounds while taking much less risk playing in SEL at the same time.

I could agree on Rakell, but he doesn`t have a lot to prove much in juniors? How about getting over PPG pace?
I know he plays a good pro game already, but it`s hard to improve while you`re not playing.

I`m not talking about this year, but last year (Devo). And like i said at the begining of this converasation - i have a hard time to like this ''attitude'' of Murray.

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02-11-2013, 04:35 AM
  #52
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Lindholm is sitting with an injury he received at the World Juniors.

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02-11-2013, 04:57 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Lindholm is sitting with an injury he received at the World Juniors.
Just before WJ if we want to be correct.

But that was the 2nd one. I believe it was reported that the hit before the juniors was not the one after who you should sit out few months. His forst concussion, however afected it in some way. He got 2 concussions in a month.

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02-11-2013, 05:49 AM
  #54
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No, it was never stated that the first hit did anything to cause the second concussion. A few of us wondered if there might be a connection, but to my knowledge, nothing has been reported to ever substantiate that speculation.

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02-11-2013, 06:00 AM
  #55
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No, it was never stated that the first hit did anything to cause the second concussion. A few of us wondered if there might be a connection, but to my knowledge, nothing has been reported to ever substantiate that speculation.
There is connection always. People who have had concussions are a little fragile to them afterwards. Concussions are not a bruise that heals with no aftereffects, but a seriosus injury with head (brain). Plus he suffered those 2 in a month. Unfortunately, Lindholm is 19 and already have had 2 in his professional career.

That`s why i don`t like Lindholm playing in NA right away. Would rather see a develpment like OEL did. Lindholm now is building up neck area and other parts of the boy to take on hits. too little too late

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02-11-2013, 06:52 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
You should get experience when you`re ready. Maybe we should call up Roy to the Anaheim and put him in the situation paying against Murray, Greene and other big, physical defenseman?
What are you talking about? How can Lindholm with his body be compaired with Roy? How can Lindholm sustaining injuries in AHL and WJC prep tournament be compaired to playing the likes of Murray or Greene? Lindholm himself hasn't had to face that, so that's kind of useless exaggeration. And there's zero indication that Lindholm wasn't ready, other than him sustaining this injury, which could have happened anyhwere. The AHL still is a developmental league (and is focused on as developmental moreso than the SEL, which isn't saying it's better at it), so it's a perfectly suited place to become ready. And Lindholm's play there didn't let that appear questionable. There happened to be an injury. That's part of the game. Turning something as simple as an injury into a blown decision is simply unnecessary.

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OEL spent another year in Sweden and he is doing very good. First he got ready and only then went to the NA to get experience - that is how you should do it.
OEL has little to do with him. And again, there's no reason to believe that the extra year in the SEL made OEL ready for any kind of NA hockey. The extra year in SEL made OEL ready to step into the NHL almost right away. It's baseless to believe he wasn't ready for AHL a year earlier. There's also less altruistic motives for guys like OEL taking the SEL over the AHL, like being paid more in Sweden, and having an easier schedule.

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Better resistance to concussions? Yes, playing in Sweden (Euor hockey, bigger rinks, much less physicality) would allow him to build up a little bit, so he could resist more physical power coming at him. He could very well built up more pounds while taking much less risk playing in SEL at the same time.
Lindholm has more than enough pounds to not be overly suspect to head injuries. A big part of why he chose to go to NA right away was playing against that physical style, because that's precisely what he would not learn as well in SEL, given the differences you mentioned. Yes, there would have been less of a risk for injuries in Sweden, that's the point I absolutely give to you. But in the end, that risk would still be smaller next year, and the year after. The one single reason we even entertain the idea of him not being "ready" for the AHL is his injury. But as simple as that is, injuries happen, and the mere existence of such an injury, as common as it is, doesn't render him "unready" retroactively.

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I could agree on Rakell, but he doesn`t have a lot to prove much in juniors? How about getting over PPG pace?
That's what I described. He won't do that, because it's not the way he plays. And he doesn't need to learn doing that, frankly. Even if he did that for the rest of the year, that would be quite meaningless for his future. Physically, he's a man amongst boys in that league. Yeah, he could figure out ways to use his physical tools even more to his advantage against those 16-18 year old kids, but that's skills that won't help him out at the next level.

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I know he plays a good pro game already, but it`s hard to improve while you`re not playing.
Yes, and no. As I said in regard to that quote from Boudreau, improvement doesn't solely come along in games. It happens a lot more in practise than it does in the few minutes of game-night hockey. He's certainly learning and improving a lot more in the multiple practises playing against the likes of Getzlaf, Perry, Beauchemin, etc. than he would in the practises back in Plymouth. But sure, ideally you'd want to have both, and in the long- or even mid-term, having him without game-time isn't going to make sense. But this isn't the long run, for now. It's a short time, in comparision, over which the mentioned advantages can very well be seen to outweigh the upside of having him play some games against kids.

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02-11-2013, 01:03 PM
  #57
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I'd really like to jump in here, but Viper is doing a great job.

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02-12-2013, 12:04 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
What are you talking about? How can Lindholm with his body be compaired with Roy? How can Lindholm sustaining injuries in AHL and WJC prep tournament be compaired to playing the likes of Murray or Greene? Lindholm himself hasn't had to face that, so that's kind of useless exaggeration. And there's zero indication that Lindholm wasn't ready, other than him sustaining this injury, which could have happened anyhwere. The AHL still is a developmental league (and is focused on as developmental moreso than the SEL, which isn't saying it's better at it), so it's a perfectly suited place to become ready. And Lindholm's play there didn't let that appear questionable. There happened to be an injury. That's part of the game. Turning something as simple as an injury into a blown decision is simply unnecessary.
I throwed in Roy since you said players need experience as soon as possible. THat`s right, you wouldn`t throw in Roy already in the AHL, right?
Lindholm isn`t small, but he was 18 yo playing in the AHL. The skill were there, but not his physical ability to resist the physical play.

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OEL has little to do with him. And again, there's no reason to believe that the extra year in the SEL made OEL ready for any kind of NA hockey. The extra year in SEL made OEL ready to step into the NHL almost right away. It's baseless to believe he wasn't ready for AHL a year earlier. There's also less altruistic motives for guys like OEL taking the SEL over the AHL, like being paid more in Sweden, and having an easier schedule.
O really? They were both high drafted Swedish defensemen with similar skill set (with Hampus being even more of a DD type).
No reason to believe that year in SEL made him ready? Oh well, i do believe that SEL is way less physical than the AHL is. You won`t find goons fighting for NHL spot in SEL.

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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Lindholm has more than enough pounds to not be overly suspect to head injuries. A big part of why he chose to go to NA right away was playing against that physical style, because that's precisely what he would not learn as well in SEL, given the differences you mentioned. Yes, there would have been less of a risk for injuries in Sweden, that's the point I absolutely give to you. But in the end, that risk would still be smaller next year, and the year after. The one single reason we even entertain the idea of him not being "ready" for the AHL is his injury. But as simple as that is, injuries happen, and the mere existence of such an injury, as common as it is, doesn't render him "unready" retroactively.
So you think the amount pounds tell you if the player is resistant to head injuries? Oh well.
Players build up special parts of the body to be resistant to head injuries. Saying that Lindholm had enough pounds to come over to NA is pretty useless fact.
And my belief is that a 18 yo shouldn`t play against AHL opposition. Everyone`s desperate to get a spot in the NHL there, and the game is a bit more dirty than it is in SEL, for example. But that is only my belief and i won`t give you a proof of that, so you might not listen to me already.

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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
That's what I described. He won't do that, because it's not the way he plays. And he doesn't need to learn doing that, frankly. Even if he did that for the rest of the year, that would be quite meaningless for his future. Physically, he's a man amongst boys in that league. Yeah, he could figure out ways to use his physical tools even more to his advantage against those 16-18 year old kids, but that's skills that won't help him out at the next level.
It`s not the way he plays? wow
So, he shouldn`t put up numbers? You always have to try to get better ofensively and i have a hard time seeing how he can do that by playing 4 games a month, even if hanging out with NHL players (again - the practices are not so often in this busy schedule. He have seen enough in camp and at the begining of the season to send him down already).

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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Yes, and no. As I said in regard to that quote from Boudreau, improvement doesn't solely come along in games. It happens a lot more in practise than it does in the few minutes of game-night hockey. He's certainly learning and improving a lot more in the multiple practises playing against the likes of Getzlaf, Perry, Beauchemin, etc. than he would in the practises back in Plymouth. But sure, ideally you'd want to have both, and in the long- or even mid-term, having him without game-time isn't going to make sense. But this isn't the long run, for now. It's a short time, in comparision, over which the mentioned advantages can very well be seen to outweigh the upside of having him play some games against kids.
More or less i could agree on that.
The ''less'' part is - i think he`s kept in Anaheim a bit too long. It was ok at some point, but now it`s way too long imo.
But looks like the decision will be made this week

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02-12-2013, 12:12 AM
  #59
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Lindholm was not outmatched physically in the AHL. That has never been a problem in his time with Norfolk.

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02-12-2013, 12:57 AM
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More or less i could agree on that.
The ''less'' part is - i think he`s kept in Anaheim a bit too long. It was ok at some point, but now it`s way too long imo.
But looks like the decision will be made this week
What? So now you're a medical expert as well? If Lindholm has been ready for a while don't you think the team would have refrained from trading away a fifth round pick? Especially since they've drafted well in the recent years.

Do you even know why 18 and 19 year olds can't play in the AHL if they've been playing on NA soil for a while? It's economics. NHL teams can't stash away their prospects in the AHL otherwise it would deplete the juniors of quality play. There would be a high turnover rate at the juniors. To prevent that, they made an agreement with the NHL. Either they stay at the NHL level or be returned to their junior team. The benefit for the NHL club is their prospect gets to learn at someone else's expense as they supervise their prospect. Not all players mature equally. Some are slower and some are faster. Do you seriously think a player like Tavares needed an extra year or three in juniors? Care to tell the Islanders that? And care to tell us Duck fans that Cam coming to us early wasn't a huge boost to his learning curve as he was amazing this season. pfft.

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02-12-2013, 01:23 AM
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OEL played an extra season in the SEL, but he was only 5 months older IIRC when he came to NA. Sure the extra season in the SEL might of been helpful. But it's a bit of a stretch to say if Lindholm did this he wouldn't of got concussed.


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02-12-2013, 01:33 AM
  #62
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I throwed in Roy since you said players need experience as soon as possible. THat`s right, you wouldn`t throw in Roy already in the AHL, right?
Lindholm isn`t small, but he was 18 yo playing in the AHL. The skill were there, but not his physical ability to resist the physical play.
Lindholm is taller and weighs more then Fowler did in his rookie NHL season as an 18 year old and Fowler was fine despite the knocks on his physical play and what not.

Yes Fowler took that hit from Doan, but I daresay a lot of NHL players would of gone into the boards in the same situation.

I don't see how Lindholm wasn't ready for AHL, he had the hockey skill and the frame to play in the AHL, it's just unfortunate that he picked up a concussion in the AHL and it was compounded in the WJC prep tournament.

Roy example is ridiculous as well, considering he's not even close to Lindholm nor ready for NHL/AHL. Or are we going to blame every concussion on a player not be ready for the NHL? Hey Sidney, I know you won the cup and all, but you got concussed, gotta get NHL ready in the AHL

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02-12-2013, 01:42 AM
  #63
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And care to tell us Duck fans that Cam coming to us early wasn't a huge boost to his learning curve as he was amazing this season. pfft.
There is absolutely no proof he wouldn't have been as good or better with another year in the CHL. His first two years here certainly weren't anything to write home about.

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02-12-2013, 01:57 AM
  #64
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There is absolutely no proof he wouldn't have been as good or better with another year in the CHL. His first two years here certainly weren't anything to write home about.
Since when is a 40 point rookie season nothing to write home about?

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02-12-2013, 01:58 AM
  #65
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It'll be interesting to see what happens with Rakell. Tough to get a read on it.


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02-12-2013, 02:16 AM
  #66
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What? So now you're a medical expert as well? If Lindholm has been ready for a while don't you think the team would have refrained from trading away a fifth round pick? Especially since they've drafted well in the recent years.

Do you even know why 18 and 19 year olds can't play in the AHL if they've been playing on NA soil for a while? It's economics. NHL teams can't stash away their prospects in the AHL otherwise it would deplete the juniors of quality play. There would be a high turnover rate at the juniors. To prevent that, they made an agreement with the NHL. Either they stay at the NHL level or be returned to their junior team. The benefit for the NHL club is their prospect gets to learn at someone else's expense as they supervise their prospect. Not all players mature equally. Some are slower and some are faster. Do you seriously think a player like Tavares needed an extra year or three in juniors? Care to tell the Islanders that? And care to tell us Duck fans that Cam coming to us early wasn't a huge boost to his learning curve as he was amazing this season. pfft.
What if i told you the part you quoted me was about Rakell? So i`m not even responding.

Tavares was clear #1 overall he had way more advanced player than Lindholm is.

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I don't see how Lindholm wasn't ready for AHL, he had the hockey skill and the frame to play in the AHL, it's just unfortunate that he picked up a concussion in the AHL and it was compounded in the WJC prep tournament.

Roy example is ridiculous as well, considering he's not even close to Lindholm nor ready for NHL/AHL. Or are we going to blame every concussion on a player not be ready for the NHL? Hey Sidney, I know you won the cup and all, but you got concussed, gotta get NHL ready in the AHL
The frame won`t tell you all the story. It`s about different parts of the body that needs to be worked on. Like Teemu trains his knees etc. For young players like Lindholm,, they need to build up that neck erea to prevent concussions because of the sometimes reckless play there in AHL.

And again - i don`t believe that the fact that 2 youngest players in AHL both are sitting about a month now with head injuries.

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02-12-2013, 02:25 AM
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That`s right, you wouldn`t throw in Roy already in the AHL, right? (...) The skill were there, but not his physical ability to resist the physical play.
I probably would not. But his physical readiness isn't exactly comparable to Lindholm.
Also, the AHL is exactly there for getting used to that physical play, because he wouldn't have that to same degree in the SEL. And again, there's no reason to believe that he wasn't physically ready, other than an injury happening. In hockey those happen, no matter how ready you are.

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No reason to believe that year in SEL made him ready?
You need to be precise with the words I used. I put the key terms there in cursive. The extra year (which just happened to be in the SEL) made OEL ready for the NHL, almost right away. It didn't make him ready for the AHL. There's no reason to believe OEL wasn't ready for the AHL a year earlier, either.

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So you think the amount pounds tell you if the player is resistant to head injuries? Oh well.
Come on. I quoted you saying he could have built those very pounds in the extra SEL-year. If you want to take apart your own argument there, fine. I'm not saying that. I don't think his resistence to head injuries would have changed within that year significantly. It happens in hockey. In the SEL, as well. The risk is smaller there, I agree, but hockey (and development) isn't about steering clear of all risks and taking the road of the smallest resistence.

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And my belief is that a 18 yo shouldn`t play against AHL opposition. Everyone`s desperate to get a spot in the NHL there, and the game is a bit more dirty than it is in SEL, for example. But that is only my belief and i won`t give you a proof of that, so you might not listen to me already.
I never argued that the AHL is tougher. In fact, I happily admitted that before. And that's exactly one of the reasons why Hampus went there. I know that you believe (now) that he should not have been there, but - as Exit Dose and mightyquack backed me up on - he looked very well there, and the entire thought of him being in a wrong place is based on an injury, which just happens.

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So, he shouldn`t put up numbers? You always have to try to get better ofensively (...)
It depends on who it's asking from him. His junior coach would want him to, obviously. But for the Ducks, it's indeed pretty meaningless what numbers he puts up in juniors this year. He could find ways to manhandle those kids there and put up bigger numbers, but that won't make him any bit better as a hockey player at the next level. Putting up better numbers in junior doesn't necessarily mean you improved your offensive talent. It usually just means that older players figured out ways to use their given tools better against that weak competition. For the next level, the AHL, or especially the NHL, that's pretty worthless. And our focus isn't to make him a better player on a lower level.

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More or less i could agree on that.
The ''less'' part is - i think he`s kept in Anaheim a bit too long. It was ok at some point, but now it`s way too long imo.
But looks like the decision will be made this week
Okay, I guess that's fair enough of a disagreement.

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02-12-2013, 03:06 AM
  #68
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I probably would not. But his physical readiness isn't exactly comparable to Lindholm.
Also, the AHL is exactly there for getting used to that physical play, because he wouldn't have that to same degree in the SEL. And again, there's no reason to believe that he wasn't physically ready, other than an injury happening. In hockey those happen, no matter how ready you are.
It was just a sarcastic comparision of throwing every young player in the NHL or AHL. Nevermind.

And injuries happen no matter how ready you are? Wow. It does matter of the readyness. It could happen to everyone but it happens way less times to the players that are ready for that, than the players who are not ready (by that i mean developing strong body that can absorb hard hits)

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You need to be precise with the words I used. I put the key terms there in cursive. The extra year (which just happened to be in the SEL) made OEL ready for the NHL, almost right away. It didn't make him ready for the AHL. There's no reason to believe OEL wasn't ready for the AHL a year earlier, either.
I`m not talking about skill, but the physical aspects, i hope you know that.

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Come on. I quoted you saying he could have built those very pounds in the extra SEL-year. If you want to take apart your own argument there, fine. I'm not saying that. I don't think his resistence to head injuries would have changed within that year significantly. It happens in hockey. In the SEL, as well. The risk is smaller there, I agree, but hockey (and development) isn't about steering clear of all risks and taking the road of the smallest resistence.
I said build up and i didn`t meant the pounds, but the cruical parts of the body.
And well, i do believe he could change the resistance of head injuries by working out on boddy parts that are important. He is 18 yo, his body is only growing and even if he looks great out on the ice, he`s more fragile than the other players.
I believe OEL was working on that in his year in SEL, before coming back to NA. But i have no ''proof'' of that, so i guess you can throw away that argument.

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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
I never argued that the AHL is tougher. In fact, I happily admitted that before. And that's exactly one of the reasons why Hampus went there. I know that you believe (now) that he should not have been there, but - as Exit Dose and mightyquack backed me up on - he looked very well there, and the entire thought of him being in a wrong place is based on an injury, which just happens.
So you should just throw in players there judging by skill, and not taking in the physical aspect? Well, then the Roy comparision i made, was apropriate.
Injuries happen more often to players not being physically ready, than those whos are. I hope you understand that.
And what do you meant by ''(now)''?
I wasn`t very happy about taking him to NA to begin with. There was a point i was about 50/50 but that`s it.

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It depends on who it's asking from him. His junior coach would want him to, obviously. But for the Ducks, it's indeed pretty meaningless what numbers he puts up in juniors this year. He could find ways to manhandle those kids there and put up bigger numbers, but that won't make him any bit better as a hockey player at the next level. Putting up better numbers in junior doesn't necessarily mean you improved your offensive talent. It usually just means that older players figured out ways to use their given tools better against that weak competition. For the next level, the AHL, or especially the NHL, that's pretty worthless. And our focus isn't to make him a better player on a lower level.
I agree that points doesn`t tell the whole story, but is there often the cases where player in pro level can put up points and didn`t do that in juniors? Rakell isn`t horrible at that, but he certainly could do better.
Look at Boner, who no matter how great was playing defensively in college, still improved his point totals year by year.
And Rakell should improve his physical play much more. He looked pretty far from playing physical in NHL, so i think he needs more time in juniors to do that.

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02-12-2013, 05:24 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
And injuries happen no matter how ready you are? Wow.
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
Injuries happen more often to players not being physically ready, than those whos are. I hope you understand that.
Well, they do happen, there's nothing shocking about that. The rest of the point you're making is fine - of course you can limit the odds by being physically perfectly prepaired. The thing is that we have hardly any indication that Lindholm wasn't physically ready. Surely, he's working harder on things now, as every player does after such an injury, there's not much of a reason to believe he would have put much work into that area while playing in Sweden before ever experiencing issues in that regard. If there's such an indication, rather than the mere abstract possibility, we're on a whole different page.

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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
I`m not talking about skill, but the physical aspects, i hope you know that.
No worries, I know.

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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
And well, i do believe he could change the resistance of head injuries by working out on boddy parts that are important. He is 18 yo, his body is only growing and even if he looks great out on the ice, he`s more fragile than the other players.
I don't think it's true that he's necessarily more fragile. I don't think medicine would suggest that, at all. Kids that age are probably a bit more susceptible to makind decisions that can end up putting them in situations they haven't handled thousands of times, and that veterans know better to avoid. Which is exactly why he went where he went, to face games in which he was forced to make those decisions night in, night out. I think it's a bit misplaced for us to just assume that Lindholm was physically unprepaired. He was working hard, and had a great mentor in Kenny Jönsson, who isn't out of touch with what physical attributes it takes to survive over here. I'm just not comfortable with assuming he wasn't ready (physically) because an injury happened. That's just a very shallow basis, in my honest opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
So you should just throw in players there judging by skill, and not taking in the physical aspect? Well, then the Roy comparision i made, was apropriate.
You need to make a difference between a general statement and one referring to a certain restricted scenario. I never said anything remotely close to those two first sentences. I said that Lindholm was ready. And an injury isn't disproving that. I never said that every player with certain skill should be there. I never even used the word skill. I said "looking good", which implies more than just skill. Lindholm never looked physically overmatched, either.

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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
Look at Boner, who no matter how great was playing defensively in college, still improved his point totals year by year.
Which is simply usual, as players are getting older and more experienced as their opposition at that level. But at some point, it doesn't really matter if a guy puts up 100+ pts in his senior year in juniors, or is merely point-per-game. I would expect Rakell's numbers to improve, as well, but I don't think it would really mean anything going forward. It would be exactly what is expected, him adjusting to the weaker opposition and finding ways to be more productive against it. It would make him a better junior player, but it wouldn't make him any better at the next levels, and that's what he himself and the Ducks aim for. Improving as a player isn't as linear as scoring many points anywhere and therefore upgrading skill-points, for example.

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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
And Rakell should improve his physical play much more. He looked pretty far from playing physical in NHL, so i think he needs more time in juniors to do that.
I think juniors is about the last place to learn physicality. He's playing 16-18 year olds that he has a ton of pounds on, on average. He's not going to learn to be more physical having kids bounce off him there, or by laying out kids he has 20 pounds on. It's just something that's not going to help him against players at the next level. DSP was a force in juniors in terms of physical play, and he needs to learn how physical play actually works at the next level, as well. Juniors don't prepair you for that.

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02-12-2013, 05:36 AM
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There is no exercise regime that makes you less likely to get concussions that I know of. That isn't the nature of the injury.

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02-12-2013, 07:43 AM
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If nothing suggest that Lindholm wasn`t physically ready, then nothing suggest that he was either.

This conversation is just getting too exhausting.

I don`t think that putting teenagers against men in AHL is the best option. Period.

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02-12-2013, 08:21 AM
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You should put them against men in the SEL?

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02-12-2013, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
You should put them against men in the SEL?
Yes.

You want to argue that SEL is more physical than AHL?
SEL is a very good league to develop skill, since it is much less physical (bigger rinks and Euro hockey with different rules etc). I wonder if there is statistics with concussions (for example) suffered in different hockey leagues.

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02-12-2013, 09:02 AM
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/shrug. Lindholm is built like a man already. I don't think there's a magic neck exercise you can do to make concussions go away. If there were, why would they wait to do it? Why wouldn't it be part of the standard workout regimen?

Furthermore Lindholm wasn't injured by a goon, he was injured by a doosh who took advantage of his not paying attention. Judging by what I've seen stocking the rosters of Detroit, Vancouver, and Nashville over the years, there are no shortage of d-bags in the SEL.

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02-12-2013, 10:45 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
If nothing suggest that Lindholm wasn`t physically ready, then nothing suggest that he was either.

This conversation is just getting too exhausting.

I don`t think that putting teenagers against men in AHL is the best option. Period.
Right, nothing to suggest he was physically ready... except for his play in the AHL. Lindholm didn't have issues physically in the AHL. He wasn't losing board battles, or getting overpowered in front of the net. Lindholm wasn't just holding his own, Kalvin.

I have a real problem with your assumption that Lindholm's concussion is evidence that he wasn't physically ready. Sidney Crosby spent the last couple of seasons fighting concussions. Was he not physically ready? Giroux, Perron, Pronger, M. Richards, Letang all had concussions. Hell, Pronger will probably never play again. Does that mean they weren't physically ready?

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