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Subban's play since coming back

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02-11-2013, 09:33 AM
  #126
Joe Cole
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Originally Posted by Darch View Post
He seems to be sucking the life out of Markov.
If that is really the case, then that has more to say about Markov's lack of backbone then anything about Subban.

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02-11-2013, 09:47 AM
  #127
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If that is really the case, then that has more to say about Markov's lack of backbone then anything about Subban.
I don't think so, I think it says that Subban is a Vampire.

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02-11-2013, 09:58 AM
  #128
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I don't think so, I think it says that Subban is a Vampire.



That makes sense, considering how many Habs fans are suckers for melodramas usually reserved for teenage girl targeted movies.

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02-11-2013, 10:03 AM
  #129
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That makes sense, considering how many Habs fans are suckers for melodramas usually reserved for teenage girl targeted movies.
Nah, here me out. Markov and Subban are almost never in the line-up together. And Markov hasn't looked good when Subban has been in the line-up, despite the fact they usually don't play together. He was good to start the season when Subban wasn't with the team.

Once we rule out the explanations that are to obvious (teams figured out Montreal's system, hot/cold streaks, etc.) its the only explanation left.

EDIT: He's obviously a Twilight vampire tough, because he has a ton of fans, but the internet hates him.


Last edited by Captain Smurf: 02-11-2013 at 10:12 AM.
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02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I'm going to try explaining it to you again without the sarcasm.

Signing long term deal is probably not the only thing that lead to Myers being healthy scratched.

Subban and Myers are two different people who might react differently to the same situations.

It's not because Myers is a healthy scratch now that he will suck forever. It's not a huge deal. It happens. He will likely be back and will play well at some point, even if it's just next year.

As such, the fact Myers was healthy scratched is not even close to being a proof that signing Subban to a transition deal was the right move. In fact, there is almost no link to be made here. It's as if I had said : Karlsson has 7 pts in 9 games, clearly Bergevin was wrong in signing Subban short term. Same illogical reasoning.

As always, it's important to use logic when making an argument.
You're mostly right... Myers' contract, as well as other comparables, can be used as a sort of contract guideline. If there were a number of players in the same situation as Myers' (complacency?? + big contract), then I'm sure GM's would be a little more apprehensive about doling out big contracts to people coming on ELCs. Obviously the player itself should be the focus in contract discussions, but other contracts (good and bad) should play a role in assessing market value, and whether or not the contract was "worth it."

Yes, I understand you were simply pointing out flaws in his logic, not necessarily disagreeing with his conclusion.

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02-11-2013, 12:33 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
Once we rule out the explanations that are to obvious (teams figured out Montreal's system, hot/cold streaks, etc.) its the only explanation left.
You are so right. "Once we rule out the obvious"

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02-11-2013, 01:12 PM
  #132
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pk has been our best d man since he's been back.

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02-11-2013, 03:30 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
There's always a risk to signing young players to an ELC,

However, where you're confused, is that you ignore the fact that there's a risk to not offering an ELC as well.

Bergevin could have picked up 4 of Subban's UFA years for ~4.5 million dollars, as well as created long-term stability on defense. Now, due to the fact that the cap is going to go up by 5%/year average in the long-term, and the fact Subban will be more proven and better, the risk is that Bergevin will have to pay 6.5-7.5 million.

Quite frankly, most of us think the odds of Subban succeeding are high, and as such we're more concerned with the latter risk since it is more probable.
What is the problem to pay Subban big sucks in 2 years if he becomes one of the best D in the league? Where is the risk? I understand the cap factor, but I don't see a problem if Subban confirms what many peoples thinks here about him...

In brief, people here are less interested to have a very good defenseman if we have to pay him... Bergevin is ready to give big money to a very good defenseman, but he just wanted to be sure Subban will be. And for that, this board called him a moron, and that's why I spoke...

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02-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #134
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To add to the mystique of PK, whose amazing skills are frequently belittled and whose exuberance and confidence are met all too often with hysterical repugnance, he has been blessed by his inclusion on the SI "10 Most Hated NHL Players" list.

Even better, he tops the list!

http://nhl.si.com/2013/02/07/the-lis...hated-players/

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02-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
To add to the mystique of PK, whose amazing skills are frequently belittled and whose exuberance and confidence are met all too often with hysterical repugnance, he has been blessed by his inclusion on the SI "10 Most Hated NHL Players" list.

Even better, he tops the list!

http://nhl.si.com/2013/02/07/the-lis...hated-players/
And three in this top 10 list were drafted and developed by the habs...

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02-12-2013, 05:07 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
To add to the mystique of PK, whose amazing skills are frequently belittled and whose exuberance and confidence are met all too often with hysterical repugnance, he has been blessed by his inclusion on the SI "10 Most Hated NHL Players" list.

Even better, he tops the list!

http://nhl.si.com/2013/02/07/the-lis...hated-players/
That is quite an honour.

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02-12-2013, 05:19 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
To add to the mystique of PK, whose amazing skills are frequently belittled and whose exuberance and confidence are met all too often with hysterical repugnance, he has been blessed by his inclusion on the SI "10 Most Hated NHL Players" list.

Even better, he tops the list!

http://nhl.si.com/2013/02/07/the-lis...hated-players/
I would be curious to see what was this man's methodology. How did he came across such a list? He pooled all NHL players? He pooled the fanbases?

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02-12-2013, 05:29 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I would be curious to see what was this man's methodology. How did he came across such a list? He pooled all NHL players? He pooled the fanbases?
One of the laziest forms of journalism is to write "top ten" lists.

Any hack can pull it off.

Quite frankly, I doubt he had any methodology.

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02-12-2013, 05:35 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
One of the laziest forms of journalism is to write "top ten" lists.

Any hack can pull it off.

Quite frankly, I doubt he had any methodology.
There is nothing wrong when writing "top ten" lists. As long as you have some damn methods to explain your choices and displayed order.

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02-12-2013, 06:14 AM
  #140
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If you read the text its obvious that the author is actually a fan of Subban and he believes Subban does not deserve the all the hate he gets.

Regardless, I wouldn't lose much sleep over SI's NHL coverage.

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02-12-2013, 06:28 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
To add to the mystique of PK, whose amazing skills are frequently belittled and whose exuberance and confidence are met all too often with hysterical repugnance, he has been blessed by his inclusion on the SI "10 Most Hated NHL Players" list.

Even better, he tops the list!

http://nhl.si.com/2013/02/07/the-lis...hated-players/
Sports Journalism ladies and gentlemen!

Taking quotes out of context, 7 year old youtube videos and 50 words to denigrate the character of a person you don't know, have never talked to and will cower away from in fear in person. These guys for all their faults and dirty play, have given their lives from a very young age to play hockey - as dirty or as "hated" as they seem, hockey players lead very tough lives and to have some loser with a dorito stained keyboard just crap all over them with some oppourtunistic youtube videos is totally abhorent.

And then people eat this **** up with a spork.

And then people will repeat this over and over and over until everything you see of that player is through "punk"-coloured glasses. As if what Mike ****ing Milbury has to say is ever right, has ever been right or will ever be applicable to reality. Why even quote Milbury, he might as well have quoted Doctor Seuss.

This crap happened to a bunch of our players, namely the 3 on that list and it'll happen to even more until maybe, one day, we all get sick of these lies and tell these loser balding "sports journalists" to stuff it. Sports Journalism a the cancerous tumour on professional sports, they HAVE to lie, exaggerate and insult because they need things to talk about. **** these lists, I'd kill to have Ribeiro and Lapierre on this team, they're exactly what this team needs.

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02-12-2013, 07:20 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Sports Journalism ladies and gentlemen!

Taking quotes out of context, 7 year old youtube videos and 50 words to denigrate the character of a person you don't know, have never talked to and will cower away from in fear in person. These guys for all their faults and dirty play, have given their lives from a very young age to play hockey - as dirty or as "hated" as they seem, hockey players lead very tough lives and to have some loser with a dorito stained keyboard just crap all over them with some oppourtunistic youtube videos is totally abhorent.

And then people eat this **** up with a spork.

And then people will repeat this over and over and over until everything you see of that player is through "punk"-coloured glasses. As if what Mike ****ing Milbury has to say is ever right, has ever been right or will ever be applicable to reality. Why even quote Milbury, he might as well have quoted Doctor Seuss.

This crap happened to a bunch of our players, namely the 3 on that list and it'll happen to even more until maybe, one day, we all get sick of these lies and tell these loser balding "sports journalists" to stuff it. Sports Journalism a the cancerous tumour on professional sports, they HAVE to lie, exaggerate and insult because they need things to talk about. **** these lists, I'd kill to have Ribeiro and Lapierre on this team, they're exactly what this team needs.
This...tihs...and this. What is bothersome is how many Habs fans eat this garbage up. We're supposed to be the most knowledgeable fans in hockey. Would take Lapierre and Ribeiro back in a heartbeat. I also think fans need to do a better job of rallying around Subban.

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02-12-2013, 07:35 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This...tihs...and this. What is bothersome is how many Habs fans eat this garbage up. We're supposed to be the most knowledgeable fans in hockey. Would take Lapierre and Ribeiro back in a heartbeat. I also think fans need to do a better job of rallying around Subban.
I'm not sure there are many fans eating this stuff up. Clearly it is a very subjective piece and more sensationalism than reporting. Like Fox News if you will.

I doubt there were polls of any kind, just the writer's bias and imagination.

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02-12-2013, 08:28 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
I'm not sure there are many fans eating this stuff up. Clearly it is a very subjective piece and more sensationalism than reporting. Like Fox News if you will.

I doubt there were polls of any kind, just the writer's bias and imagination.
I was speaking in general. There is such dodgy journalism here that gets eaten up by a lot of fans.

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02-12-2013, 08:51 AM
  #145
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I was speaking in general. There is such dodgy journalism here that gets eaten up by a lot of fans.
There are for certain a lot of poseurs out there. Even the major sports networks in both languages are full of self-serving pseudo reporters whose agendas have little to so with accuracy or fairness.

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02-12-2013, 08:53 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I would be curious to see what was this man's methodology. How did he came across such a list? He pooled all NHL players? He pooled the fanbases?
It's probably his feeling of how much fans hate these players. So it's not suprising that Subban and Lapierre are 1 & 2. They are pretty much hated by opposing fans. We are probably the most hated team or at least 2nd most hated. If they did it for baseball how many Yankees do you think would be there?

Personally I hate the cheap shot artists like Cooke the most, who really cares about the guys that talk a lot of smack. Talk is cheap.

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02-12-2013, 09:10 AM
  #147
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Haven't read this thread in its entirety. Just here to say (since I had posted extensively about the matter during the negotiations/holdout) that PK has been everything we want and need him to be. I've been really happy about his play and how he seems to have modified his play within the system. I don't think he's necessarily toned it down. Just mistake-free. He's also hitting the net more (and scoring) since the first few games back. You saw that towards the end of the game, he was taking the puck to the net and even behind so when it needs to be done, he will. In any case, MT has a very active defense.

All that said, MB got a great contract (and appropriate for PK for where he is) and this should not be overlooked. His future in MTL is safe IMO (no grudges) and for all the reactionary complaining about the next subject, i.e., enforcers, management has been doing well at each step. I have no doubt that although we had a bad week, that in the long run, we are moving towards contender and that could start very well with playoffs this year, largely thanks to Subban. I do agree Markov is looking a bit off, but he also makes some really awesome Markovian plays that go unnoticed.

As for us being hated, trying to speak unbiasedly, I really don't think there's anything to feel ashamed of on our team. If we were going around biting people and trying to knee the other team's players or just generally playing a cheap game - I'd totally admit it. Can't stop other teams from hating though, it's just so easy to hate a team like the Habs without reason. Look at Toronto fans trying to come up with reasons why grabo and Orr did all that stuff. They will defend anything. I've been in leaf country for school/work for a decade and at many weddings or official functions with long-time "leaf families", they invariably say something abusive about the Habs. (Like in the speech for their daughter's wedding, who doesn't even care...) Haters gonna hate. All we should do is enjoy our team and hopefully they will give us reason to.

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02-12-2013, 09:18 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
This...tihs...and this. What is bothersome is how many Habs fans eat this garbage up. We're supposed to be the most knowledgeable fans in hockey. Would take Lapierre and Ribeiro back in a heartbeat. I also think fans need to do a better job of rallying around Subban.
I would take Lapierre back in a heartbeat (although wouldn't know where to place him in the lineup -- I guess everyone but me hates Armstrong). I was actually a pretty big Ribs fan until he really showed what a puke he was. I don't mind having a guy who gets in people's faces. Ribeiro... embarrassing (even though very talented.).

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02-13-2013, 11:45 AM
  #149
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Obviously. Would we, the fans have voted him in if Markov weren't there to cover up all of his flaws?

Point remains, Markov makes/made everyone better.


Absolutely. I've never seen someone chip the puck off the boards so extravagantly before. Lol. But that's not to take away from his ability, because it's obvious that he's got potential. Just sloooww down there guys. Look beyond the flashiness and judge him accordingly.
Maybe you should do the same.

PK IMO is already a more dominant player than Markov and I don't care one bit about flashiness... in fact, it's his well-rounded play that I like the most.

We all know defensemen usually take longer to develop but let's look at PK's progression starting from the AHL:

- Was integrated "slowly" in his first AHL season... about halfway through the season, he became the no 1 defenseman.

- Finished his first and only AHL season with 18 goals, 53 points and a +46 ratings despite more limited responsibilities at the start of the season.

- Gets called up at the end of that season play the final 2 games (2 assists) and the playoffs in which he played a HUGE part getting 8 points in 14 games playing top 2 minutes and often playing against the top line (the guy had 2 NHL games before those playoffs FFS !)

- Gets 14 goals and 38 points in his rookie season. Is already given top line shutdown pairing duties. Gets 4 points in 7 games in the POs and scores the tying goal to get us in the 7th game OT against the Bruins.

- Gets 36 points in his second season on a last place team. Gets shutdown role more than ever and manages to finish at +9 on an horrible year for the Habs. Often plays up to 30 minutes a game and is heavily relied on in every important situation. Him, Gorges and the first line were the only bright spot of that season.

And you guys say we overrate him because he's flashy ?? Are you kidding me ?

As long as there's people like you around, he's far from overrated. I mean what the hell are you watching ?

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02-13-2013, 11:50 AM
  #150
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Markov 24:49 min
Gorges 20:53
Emelin 19:54
Diaz 19:42
Subban 19:26
Bouillon 19:17


On average, Subban has played 9 seconds more than Bouillon, the #6D !!!
Subban has played about 25% less than Markov !

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