HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Carlyle's defensive style

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-11-2013, 07:10 PM
  #1
nuck
Axis of Evil
 
nuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: North Korea
Posts: 5,007
vCash: 500
Carlyle's defensive style

To those who have watch the club every night how much of a difference from RC to RW, or is it mostly the Reimer effect? The shots for and against are about the same as the last two years. Is the difference fairly subtle except for the goaltending?

The Carolina loss was wide open with a ton of shots and Ward being a lot sharper than Reimer. In the Rangers loss they were badly outshot and outplayed. A better system or just a group playing a little better?

nuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 09:48 PM
  #2
Phatic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 424
vCash: 500
how about just a system? growing up playing hockey and watching through the RW era I couldnt figure out what the he-ll he was trying to do.

RC: a breakout with support (havent seen this in years), back checking assignments (see previous brackets), a cycle game in the offensive zone... little things make a big difference to team performance. Opposing teams are getting plenty of shots, but quality scoring chances have gone down. (at least from what ive seen, i havent checked stats on it). ive only see a few odd man rushes per game, and i dont think we've been scored on via the odd man rush yet. with RW the tender was hung out. i remember seeing 2-0s, 3-0s a few break aways a game, etc.
basically, its nice to watch hockey again

Phatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:01 PM
  #3
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,493
vCash: 950
A combination of both i believe .

While we still tend to get hemmed in our zone too often at least we're clogging the slot and the front of the net and taking away many high % shots and clearing the rebounds better than we did under Wilson .

Combined with this our goalies have played very well outside of a game or two . We've also cut down on the constant odd man rushes we were giving up as well .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:03 PM
  #4
Hockeylaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
Definitely a combination of the two. And they feed off of each other. Better goaltending improves team confidence. Better defensive play improves your goaltending.

Hockeylaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:03 PM
  #5
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 6,672
vCash: 500
Carlyle's "defensive" hockey = 11 goals in 2 games.

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:18 PM
  #6
HockeyFanSince86
The Team People Love
 
HockeyFanSince86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Home of 13 Cups
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Carlyle's "defensive" hockey = 11 goals in 2 games.
Good Defense leads to offensive chances. Defense first doesn't mean the trap style.

HockeyFanSince86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:19 PM
  #7
Duffman955
Registered User
 
Duffman955's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyFanSince86 View Post
Good Defense leads to offensive chances. Defense first doesn't mean the trap style.
This is pretty much exactly what Carlyle said

Duffman955 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:20 PM
  #8
Phion Keneuf
Top Dawg Ent.
 
Phion Keneuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Italy
Posts: 27,668
vCash: 500
Love Carlyle's system. Everyone is buying into it as well

Phion Keneuf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:22 PM
  #9
Mystifo
Lol Doodle.
 
Mystifo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: YYT
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Love Carlyle's system. Everyone is buying into it as well
This right here is one of the main reasons. A system is useless if the players wont buy into it.

Mystifo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:24 PM
  #10
sangreale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
This is pretty much exactly what Carlyle said
Forecheck. Take the body. Play your position. Make good choices. New concept.

Around the ACC anyway.

sangreale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 10:46 PM
  #11
bunjay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,269
vCash: 500
The differences are not subtle.

-switched Phaneuf to his natural side
-giving Kadri and Frattin prime PP time
-far more proactive about linematching
-has the forwards more closely supporting the defense for the first pass
-has the centers playing much higher in the neutral and offensive zone
-makes good use of the fourth lne
-much less passive penalty kill
-has made the Grabovski line essentially a dedicated shutdown tool to the point that they don't even play the PP anymore so that they're always ready when the opposition's top forwards come on

It's only subtle if you think the reason Ron Wilson's teams were always terrible was just some abstract concept with no real solutions. Good coaching goes a long way, and it's not just psychological or 'intangible.'

The only thing Carlyle hasn't greatly improved upon is the PP, but he has at least recognized that Kadri/Frattin/Franson belong there. And the PP is one of those things you can try to teach but once you're set up in the offensive zone it's all up to the players to make the right decisions.

bunjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:00 PM
  #12
SkateSave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 203
vCash: 500
It reminds me of the Quinn era where the leafs would get outshot in nearly every game, but the combination of reasonably mitigated chances and stellar goaltending yielded wins.

Of course now, the D is a little better and the goaltending a little worse.

SkateSave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:01 PM
  #13
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,493
vCash: 950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Love Carlyle's system. Everyone is buying into it as well
I think they're buying into RC as well . Wilson came off as a me first person and had no problem throwing his own players under the bus . RC on the other hand seems like he actually gives a damn about the guys who play for him and the team will play harder for a coach they respect and that respects them .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:04 PM
  #14
Grant
LL Genius
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,714
vCash: 50
May be a similar amount of shots but I beleive the shots we do allow are of a lower percentage than those we allowed last year. A lot of the shots we give up now are from the boards and don't have as good of an angle. Last year the shots tended to be in closer and more in front of the net.


Is there a place that lists scoring chances given up? That would be the stat that would better tell the story.

Grant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:04 PM
  #15
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,950
vCash: 500
All I know is that 11 goals for and 83 shots against the last 2gms is not exactly defensive hockey.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:08 PM
  #16
Doshy
Registered User
 
Doshy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,872
vCash: 500
There hasn't been 83 quality shots on goal though ^

Remember last year? Almost every shot was a threat. This year there's a lot more being fired from the outside, rather than every shot being a great chance to score.

Doshy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:08 PM
  #17
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,950
vCash: 500
I see our goalies making all sorts of great saves on tough scoring chances.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:11 PM
  #18
PhiladelphiaKessel
DontCrossthe****Line
 
PhiladelphiaKessel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
All I know is that 11 goals for and 83 shots against the last 2gms is not exactly defensive hockey.
This.

We are getting lucky that our forwards are scoring and finishing while Reimer is standing on his head. Theres no way we can continue to get heavily outshot and continue to win (unless Reimer keeps it up)

PhiladelphiaKessel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 11:11 PM
  #19
sangreale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doshy View Post
There hasn't been 83 quality shots on goal though ^

Remember last year? Almost every shot was a threat. This year there's a lot more being fired from the outside, rather than every shot being a great chance to score.
Yeah! Last years time was a lot more offensive.

sangreale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 05:29 AM
  #20
johnny_rudeboy
Registered User
 
johnny_rudeboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Karlstad
Country: Sweden
Posts: 11,004
vCash: 500
First of all he have gotten this team to be a lot more disciplined both in our own zone and when on the attack. Players are expected to finish their checks (well all but one) and skate just as hard back as they do when they attack.

He also plays players in their natural positions.

The players give each other support along the boards.

They force the other teams to take shots from far out and no one is allowed to screen the goalie, under Wilson both our defenders and the other teams attacker screened the goalie.

And just that we have a system helps a lot.

johnny_rudeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 05:36 AM
  #21
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,911
vCash: 500
A lot of it is the system. So far this you you don't see that many "good" scoring chances against us. I was wondering the other day, I know that on a game by game basis you can see where all the shots were taken, I'd like to see a summary of last year versus this year.

eyeball11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 08:19 AM
  #22
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,446
vCash: 500
Carlyle emphasizes defense but by no means does his system stifle creativity and offensive chances. The biggest difference between Carlyle and Wilson is that Carlyle's philosophy is to focus on sound defense which in turn will create great offensive opportunities. Wilson's philosophy was to use speed to generate offensive opportunity by any means necessary which often meant that defense became the sacrificial lamb.

Carlyle expects every player to be defensively accountable (of course a guy like Kessel will get slack) and he also expects responsible play in all 3 zones and he has high expectations regarding physical fitness. Want to know why a team that's fitted with 25% of its roster plucked straight out of their Marlies farm team is somehow keeping their heads above water right now? It's because 25% of our roster has had a head start playing this kind of hockey under Dallas Eakins.

Ari91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 08:23 AM
  #23
Parkdale
Registered User
 
Parkdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Carlyle emphasizes defense but by no means does his system stifle creativity and offensive chances. The biggest difference between Carlyle and Wilson is that Carlyle's philosophy is to focus on sound defense which in turn will create great offensive opportunities. Wilson's philosophy was to use speed to generate offensive opportunity by any means necessary which often meant that defense became the sacrificial lamb.

Carlyle expects every player to be defensively accountable (of course a guy like Kessel will get slack) and he also expects responsible play in all 3 zones and he has high expectations regarding physical fitness. Want to know why a team that's fitted with 25% of its roster plucked straight out of their Marlies farm team is somehow keeping their heads above water right now? It's because 25% of our roster has had a head start playing this kind of hockey under Dallas Eakins.
I like that Carlyle takes every opportunity to give Dallas Eakins credit for his fine work in developing the Marlie graduates.

Parkdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 08:30 AM
  #24
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
I like that Carlyle takes every opportunity to give Dallas Eakins credit for his fine work in developing the Marlie graduates.
I like that as well because Eakins sure as hell deserves major credit for what we see in Kadri, Frattin, etc. He's such a damn good coach and it worries me that some team is finally going to realize what a gem he is and is going to offer him an NHL contract and he'll leave us

Ari91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 08:31 AM
  #25
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,924
vCash: 100
83 shots isn't so bad. Out of those, I'd say 3, maybe 4 were quality chances (not counting the goals).

Also we were in the box against the Flyers for a 5 min PP, they must have got a lot of shots off then.

Pi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.