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OT: Northeast US Losing Population, Growth In Sun Belt, West, South

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Old
02-09-2013, 08:31 PM
  #26
kdb209
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This is not the Politics board - take the political my-state-is-better-than-yours discussion elsewhere.

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02-09-2013, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
People moving from the northeast to the south or west is a very common trend going way back before you or I were even born. One very common group of people doing this are those who are very young and have this idea in their head that the grass is greener somewhere else.
I'm fairly certain that the grass on Portland, OR is greener than that in Jersey City, in the literal sense at least. I'm dying to find a job out there so I can escape the unhealthy rat race that is the NYC metro area. Stick an NHL team there and I might just go and take my chances.

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02-09-2013, 09:09 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
There's also "good place to wait for death". One thing the Forbes piece didn't disclose was the demographics of the people moving.
Increasingly, you can find the same east coast job opportunities in places like Arizona, Utah and Texas, with a cost of living that is significantly lower. Austin and Seattle are two really up-and-coming cities, especially when it comes to the tech sector. It's not really surprisingly that people are flocking to these states. Why pay $2,000 a month for a closet when that gets you a nice house out west?

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02-09-2013, 09:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
There are a few things that came to my mind just seeing the title of the thread.

1. The automotive sector crashing recently would have something to do with this.

2. The majority of the population is getting up to or already at the retirement age and may be relocating south in the sunbelt/california for the remainder of their days.

Those are the two main reasons that came to my mind anyways.
Why would they move to CA, one of the states with probably the most expensive living?

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02-09-2013, 11:44 PM
  #30
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I do actually have a "why you should hate Portland" rant (being born and reared in Portland, I've got a little street cred on the matter) that is actually more germane to this board than, say, trying to follow the one-time "Don't Californicate Oregon" mantra of the 1970s. I'm just trying to decide if it's worth its own thread... the main point would be resistance to public funding of arenas and stadia.

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02-10-2013, 07:14 AM
  #31
OthmarAmmann
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
Increasingly, you can find the same east coast job opportunities in places like Arizona, Utah and Texas, with a cost of living that is significantly lower. Austin and Seattle are two really up-and-coming cities, especially when it comes to the tech sector. It's not really surprisingly that people are flocking to these states. Why pay $2,000 a month for a closet when that gets you a nice house out west?
I agree, but sadly my line of work is still almost exclusively northeast.

I hit a breaking point yesterday with all the snow and booked a flight to Phoenix for next weekend.

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02-10-2013, 08:47 AM
  #32
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What do you mean when the population shifts fully? The future is unclear, especially when it comes to opportunities. South is not a sure greener pasture, well it is now. But it doesn't mean growth in the south is equal to the population in the north shrinks.

As an immigrant to North America, I know for a fact that yes, opportunities attract people, but living in a populous city is a lot harder especially in jobs. I was born in a +40 million city and immigrated to a city with 750K, and honestly, opportunities are better in a smaller city. Movements to the south is only conditional and not permanent.

Let's not assume that every person from NE is a hockey fan, and let's stay clear of population = viability in hockey. 'Cause clearly it's not.
False, Tokyo has a population of 13 Million in the city and a total metropolitan population of 35 Million that's the largest metro in the world

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02-10-2013, 10:50 AM
  #33
MartysBetterThanYou
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The Northeast has the most people leaving for other parts of the US, but it also has the some of the highest rates of immigration from other countries, after the Mexican border states and Florida. The white and black populations are moving away from the Midwest and Northeast, but like the rest of the country, Asian and Latin American immigrants are making sure the region still has net growth. The league should focus on expanding its markets into these ethnic groups. It's a shame Scott Gomez busted hard, marketed right, he could have gotten a whole generation of Mexican-Americans interested in hockey.

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02-10-2013, 08:23 PM
  #34
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The Northeast is actually growing, but much slower than other parts of the country.

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/b...c2010br-01.pdf - see Table 1, on Page 2.

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02-10-2013, 08:39 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
Increasingly, you can find the same east coast job opportunities in places like Arizona, Utah and Texas, with a cost of living that is significantly lower. Austin and Seattle are two really up-and-coming cities, especially when it comes to the tech sector. It's not really surprisingly that people are flocking to these states. Why pay $2,000 a month for a closet when that gets you a nice house out west?
Almost word for word what I said to my son. Although I meant westend of Toronto. For some reason he prefers the closet Downtown. Go figure.

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02-10-2013, 08:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Almost word for word what I said to my son. Although I meant westend of Toronto. For some reason he prefers the closet Downtown. Go figure.
It's a generational thing. Young people, myself included, prefer urban living where location and amenities are more important than comfort. We want a walkable neighborhood with bars and restaurants and museums and public transportation. If all we can afford with all of that is a closet, then be it.

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02-10-2013, 08:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MartysBetterThanYou View Post
It's a generational thing. Young people, myself included, prefer urban living where location and amenities are more important than comfort. We want a walkable neighborhood with bars and restaurants and museums and public transportation. If all we can afford with all of that is a closet, then be it.
Hey John, didn't know you posted here. Yep that's what he said as well. The other benefit being a 5 minute walk to work. Zero transportation costs and miniscule time out of the day spent commuting. I get it, great if you have no kids.

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Old
02-10-2013, 09:02 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartysBetterThanYou View Post
The Northeast has the most people leaving for other parts of the US, but it also has the some of the highest rates of immigration from other countries, after the Mexican border states and Florida. The white and black populations are moving away from the Midwest and Northeast, but like the rest of the country, Asian and Latin American immigrants are making sure the region still has net growth. The league should focus on expanding its markets into these ethnic groups. It's a shame Scott Gomez busted hard, marketed right, he could have gotten a whole generation of Mexican-Americans interested in hockey.
The NHL is not the NBA, though. It's much more of a team game. The NHL has tried this "marketing the stars" thing in the past, and it's been a massive failure. The NHL will always have a tough time branching out in the US to really attract a new audience, because the other big three sports and soccer have huge followings. All three are also a LOT cheaper to get into. So you not only have to have kids wanting to get into a new sport and convince their parents, who were raised following and playing something entirely different, to let them do so, you also have to get those parents to pay big money for the privilege. And you need to have places to play. It's not like there are loads and loads of rinks in Smalltown Southern USA.

Hockey has huge cultural and accessibility barriers to it in the US, especially in the south. That's not changing any time soon. NHL teams down there help some with spreading awareness, but hockey needs a lot more than that to really take hold.

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02-10-2013, 09:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Hey John, didn't know you posted here. Yep that's what he said as well. The other benefit being a 5 minute walk to work. Zero transportation costs and miniscule time out of the day spent commuting. I get it, great if you have no kids.
That`s why the grand folks gotta live in the same building


Transit costs and time being the big one. Were the internet generation we have no desire for a big back yard or a garage. We`d rather a gym close by and a bar even closer.

Anyhow this trend is a major one for many. I`d rather work an extra two hours a day them spent the same time in my car doing nothing but burning gas.

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02-10-2013, 09:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by MartysBetterThanYou View Post
It's a generational thing. Young people, myself included, prefer urban living where location and amenities are more important than comfort. We want a walkable neighborhood with bars and restaurants and museums and public transportation. If all we can afford with all of that is a closet, then be it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Hey John, didn't know you posted here. Yep that's what he said as well. The other benefit being a 5 minute walk to work. Zero transportation costs and miniscule time out of the day spent commuting. I get it, great if you have no kids.
And this generation is not having kids like that.

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02-10-2013, 09:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
The NHL is not the NBA, though. It's much more of a team game. The NHL has tried this "marketing the stars" thing in the past, and it's been a massive failure. The NHL will always have a tough time branching out in the US to really attract a new audience, because the other big three sports and soccer have huge followings. All three are also a LOT cheaper to get into. So you not only have to have kids wanting to get into a new sport and convince their parents, who were raised following and playing something entirely different, to let them do so, you also have to get those parents to pay big money for the privilege. And you need to have places to play. It's not like there are loads and loads of rinks in Smalltown Southern USA.

Hockey has huge cultural and accessibility barriers to it in the US, especially in the south. That's not changing any time soon. NHL teams down there help some with spreading awareness, but hockey needs a lot more than that to really take hold.
The fact is none of the big 3 are perfect. Baseball has bad demographics. The NFL is too violent of a game for most people to actually play, it`s built on the principle this is something bigger than life.

The nba is the only sport that really pushes ahead as a direct competitor, and it has some rather powerful issues of it`s own.

Meh it`s obviously an issue, but I don`t think it`s as severe as most people think it is.

I think Hockey need to target the summer heat for the ideal time to spread the sport.

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02-10-2013, 10:12 PM
  #42
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Different cities and different states can succeed with different strategies. There's no one size fits all strategy in a nation of 315M people. That said, people on the margin are voting with their feet and cities that offer middle class families affordable housing, good schools, public safety, and good jobs will always do well. The sunbelt has done an excellent job in recent decades of allowing middle class families to lead safe, prosperous middle class lives -- and the people have voted with their feet.

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02-11-2013, 12:40 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by scotchex View Post
Different cities and different states can succeed with different strategies. There's no one size fits all strategy in a nation of 315M people. That said, people on the margin are voting with their feet and cities that offer middle class families affordable housing, good schools, public safety, and good jobs will always do well. The sunbelt has done an excellent job in recent decades of allowing middle class families to lead safe, prosperous middle class lives -- and the people have voted with their feet.
What remains of the middle class, anyway.

You're right to an extent... and the overarching trend of late has been moving in with the like-minded. Thing is, the quite populated west coast is coming to grips with old suburbanization patterns. Either you can say the changes are right at the tip of the tongue or "change happens," but it's not Dad's America for much longer.

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02-11-2013, 04:46 PM
  #44
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I agree, but sadly my line of work is still almost exclusively northeast.

I hit a breaking point yesterday with all the snow and booked a flight to Phoenix for next weekend.
Are you Anthony LeBlanc?

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02-12-2013, 12:56 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by HugoSimon View Post
Transit costs and time being the big one. Were the internet generation we have no desire for a big back yard or a garage. We`d rather a gym close by and a bar even closer.
Generation gaps have nothing to do with it. You spend your free time in gyms and bars because you don't have kids. There's about 70 years of demographic data that says in a few short years you're going to have more friends building decks than working on their delts.

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02-12-2013, 08:28 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Generation gaps have nothing to do with it. You spend your free time in gyms and bars because you don't have kids. There's about 70 years of demographic data that says in a few short years you're going to have more friends building decks than working on their delts.
oh yee of little faith ... you can do both at the same time.

on the topic of this thread, im amused that a moving company's report of a few thousands people moving here and there has prompted so much discussion. that one moving company's data are likely not all that representative of actual overall mobility, let alone controlling for more important socio-economic factors like income, occupation, age, ethnicity, etc. make it more amusing.

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02-12-2013, 08:48 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by scotchex View Post
Different cities and different states can succeed with different strategies. There's no one size fits all strategy in a nation of 315M people. That said, people on the margin are voting with their feet and cities that offer middle class families affordable housing, good schools, public safety, and good jobs will always do well. The sunbelt has done an excellent job in recent decades of allowing middle class families to lead safe, prosperous middle class lives -- and the people have voted with their feet.
Then how come the states with the highest incomes, best ranking schools, and lowest violent crime rates are all in these aging Northeastern states? Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Maryland routinely lead the nation in many measurements of prosperity.

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02-12-2013, 09:25 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by sawchuk1971 View Post
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-st...194007689.html




it mentions four states (south carolina, north carolina, florida, arizona) are high population growth....

three of those states have NHL franchises.....fans who grew up watching hockey in rust/frost belt states are moving to sunbelt state for job opportunities...

will the migration of fans, who lived in frost/rust belt states, to sunbelt states strengthen the fanbases in those markets? is it happening now?
Hrmm this is a good question..but people who move away from the rust belt/northeast, will continue to follow those teams in the sunbelt areas. Maybe their children might latch onto the local team. Good discussion point.

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02-12-2013, 09:30 AM
  #49
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Who is moving will be more important than how many.

If you've got younger people moving with more disposable income, that have or will eventually have kids that grow up in the new areas, then you're laying the groundwork for expanding the population and increasing a potential fanbase.

If it's just people who are at retirement age who are looking to get out of the cold in their twilight years while living on a fixed income, then you're not exactly expanding the population or increasing much of a potential fanbase.

I'm thinking most of the people in these numbers are indicative of the latter group, as most of the data that I've seen about the population shift of younger Americans lately has them moving into urban areas, especially the bigger cities.

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02-12-2013, 09:53 AM
  #50
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For the record, we have cities in the south too, it's not all suburbs and acreage.

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