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Wii U: Nintendo's Next Generation Console Part 2

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Old
01-27-2013, 08:10 AM
  #76
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Looking forward to this now, don't really see the appeal of windwaker considering it was one of the worst zelda games.

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01-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
Gaming was much bigger during the GameCube era than during the SNES era. And Prime may have outsold Super, its hard to say without virtual console numbers. But looking at them just on their original consoles, Prime is ahead by a million, but again, different era.
Your arguments here are bizzare, Orpheus.

You argue that Prime "bombed" in Japan (it's known that first person games are not popular), but use the total sales (even though they skew in Prime's favor) to make an argument for Super Metroid?

And storywise... I mean, none of the Metroid's are particularly focused on telling you a story. In some ways, Metroid 2 (with the subsequent material) and Metroid Fusion are the best of the bunch, but even if then it's a very secondary aspect of the game. It's not even like Prime swung and missed, it didn't even bother outside of the scannable documents.

I just flat think Prime is the better, deeper more atmospheric game.

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01-27-2013, 12:31 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
Gaming was much bigger during the GameCube era than during the SNES era. And Prime may have outsold Super, its hard to say without virtual console numbers. But looking at them just on their original consoles, Prime is ahead by a million, but again, different era.

Really hard to compare sales numbers like that because gaming exploded in popularity post Playstation.
The PS1 and PS2 exploded in popularity, but Nintendo's home consoles were sharply declining. Prime had a much larger attachment rate than Super.

And if you're going to bring up the sales VC sales of Super Metroid, you would also have to include the Metroid Prime Trilogy sales.

Though really, sales have nothing to do with which game is better.

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01-27-2013, 01:24 PM
  #79
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don't really see the appeal of windwaker considering it was one of the worst zelda games.
I disagree; I happened to love that game. Sailing didn't bother me and neither did the treasure hunting.

If (when) I get a WiiU I will definitely get the Wind Waker remake.

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01-28-2013, 01:42 PM
  #80
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Looking forward to this now, don't really see the appeal of windwaker considering it was one of the worst zelda games.
what game is the gif?

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01-28-2013, 01:45 PM
  #81
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what game is the gif?
Most likely a new entry in the Xenoblade franchise. I believe the actual title of the game is unknown at this point.

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01-28-2013, 05:44 PM
  #82
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Most likely a new entry in the Xenoblade franchise. I believe the actual title of the game is unknown at this point.
It has everything on screen that Xenoblade had, minus the additional party members.

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02-11-2013, 03:50 PM
  #83
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So, Rayman Legends has been delayed until September, and is no longer going to be a Wii U exclusive.

Also:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/201..._focus_at_dice

Quote:
Sidhe co-founder Mario Wynands attended the event and had the following to say on what was spoken about this year regarding Nintendo's home console:

"At DICE, nobody has been talking about the new Wii U projects they have started, only the Wii U projects that have just been cancelled. Platform is in serious trouble. Pubs and devs never recoiled from PS3 like they seem to be with Wii U (though this is anecdotal). There was always the confidence that the numbers would get there over time with PS3. I’m not sensing that with Wii U."
Maybe it's not as doom and gloom as some are making it out to be, but let's face it..Wii U hasn't exactly charged straight out of the gate..

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02-11-2013, 06:18 PM
  #84
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No doubt it hasn't.

Nintendo dropped the ball by not releasing that "gotta have" title, but everybody knows this. That being said, the Rayman developments aren't anything to rock the foundation of the Wii U, but Nintendo needs to get it together.

They need a big E3. Like, they need to announce Smash Bros AND Mario Kart are coming Holiday 2013 (I know they announced it via Nintendo Direct a few weeks ago, but these titles need to be ready this winter if they want to stay relevant).

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02-11-2013, 06:46 PM
  #85
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No doubt it hasn't.

Nintendo dropped the ball by not releasing that "gotta have" title, but everybody knows this. That being said, the Rayman developments aren't anything to rock the foundation of the Wii U, but Nintendo needs to get it together.

They need a big E3. Like, they need to announce Smash Bros AND Mario Kart are coming Holiday 2013 (I know they announced it via Nintendo Direct a few weeks ago, but these titles need to be ready this winter if they want to stay relevant).
The problem is, they run the risk of being overshadowed by "OMG NEW CONSOLES" which is why they really need to bring jaw dropping experiences. Because they will certainly be inferior graphically, they need to hook people in with their classic (or maybe even new) franchises in HD and show people why they should care.

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02-11-2013, 09:03 PM
  #86
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Tiger Woods 14 not being released on WiiU now.

A sign of things to come for future EA games and Nintendo...?

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02-11-2013, 09:17 PM
  #87
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Tiger Woods 14 not being released on WiiU now.

A sign of things to come for future EA games and Nintendo...?
SE feels DQX is under performing as well, so dont be surprised to see that go multiplatform too.

Ever since the N64, Nintendo and third parties always have issues... You'd think they would learn to get along by now.

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02-11-2013, 09:42 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
The problem is, they run the risk of being overshadowed by "OMG NEW CONSOLES" which is why they really need to bring jaw dropping experiences. Because they will certainly be inferior graphically, they need to hook people in with their classic (or maybe even new) franchises in HD and show people why they should care.
Define jaw dropping experiences, because I think that too many people will be busy fawning over better graphics to care about a "different experience." At this point, you know what you're going to get from Nintendo. You will get another Zelda. You'll get 2d and 3d mario. You'll likely be getting a Metroid. And then a hodge podge of other titles from Kirby to Yoshi, Star Fox to DK. And there will be a slew of people who look at it, and regardless of the experience, will just slam them as "kid games" and play whatever version of Halo just came out.

Sorry, a bit rantish, but I'm not sure where people set their expectations with this. Look at the launch titles for the 360 and PS3. They weren't loaded, and having a heavy rotation of ports probably gives the U more quality games out of the gate than either of those other two consoles.

As for the future, I keep hoping that they follow up on what they've done with Bayonetta 2. Go out and buy the Darksiders IP and make DS3 as an exclusive. Look for games that want to be made, that have a bit of a following, but can't find any money... and throw money at them.

Nintendo talks about developers needing to learn to use the hardware...make them. Pay them to do it. Nintendo needs to be insanely more pro-active at some point.

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02-12-2013, 11:50 AM
  #89
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I have not turned mine on since a week after I got it.

Sometimes I turn on the pad if my television remote is at large.

Come on Bayonetta 2.

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02-12-2013, 12:13 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Define jaw dropping experiences, because I think that too many people will be busy fawning over better graphics to care about a "different experience." At this point, you know what you're going to get from Nintendo. You will get another Zelda. You'll get 2d and 3d mario. You'll likely be getting a Metroid. And then a hodge podge of other titles from Kirby to Yoshi, Star Fox to DK. And there will be a slew of people who look at it, and regardless of the experience, will just slam them as "kid games" and play whatever version of Halo just came out.

Sorry, a bit rantish, but I'm not sure where people set their expectations with this. Look at the launch titles for the 360 and PS3. They weren't loaded, and having a heavy rotation of ports probably gives the U more quality games out of the gate than either of those other two consoles.

As for the future, I keep hoping that they follow up on what they've done with Bayonetta 2. Go out and buy the Darksiders IP and make DS3 as an exclusive. Look for games that want to be made, that have a bit of a following, but can't find any money... and throw money at them.

Nintendo talks about developers needing to learn to use the hardware...make them. Pay them to do it. Nintendo needs to be insanely more pro-active at some point.
The problem with this statement is that the year is quite barren for the Wii U at the moment (of course this will change come E3). In addition to that, developers are flat out cancelling Wii U projects, and the big multiplatform games of the year are not hitting Wii U, except for maybe Tomb Raider.

So once again Nintendo is between a rock and a hard place, where they will basically be the only ones supporting their system. And it's not really a problem you can throw money at, while you can buy yourself a shoddy port of a game, devs are moving on to next gen by now. While some teams will stick around with this gen a bit longer, within 2 years the Wii U will be getting downports with cut features, except those games will likely come out on PS3 and 360 as well.

And no, the Wii U is not a value proposition for developers when even Call of Duty didnt sell much over 100k units. Shoddy ports of things that came out 6 months ago is great for people that didnt buy either of the other two systems, but that is not the market that will buy your system at launch anyways. Hardcore gamers, who are likely to own all or multiple systems are the hardcore, and baiting them with crappy exclusive third party support that the console then loses is a world of hurt.

Ninja Gaiden and Rayman are the perfect examples of this.

No one is questioning that Nintendo will bring the rain in terms of first party, and a strong first party at that. But they are losing ground quickly with the third party, and combined with a confusing marketing campaign and a relatively barren launch window (for new games because stuff like Pikmin got pushed back) means most of the hardcore are taking a wait and see approach. No hardcore means no word of mouth, means no casual people either.

Never mind their god awful online ID system that would have been viewed as archaic in 2008.

While its hard to be clear and concise while typing all this out in class, when the PS4 and Nextbox get announced or come out, PS3 and 360 will be dropping in price until they eventually hit $99. The Wii U is going to have to keep up with them, because that's its comparables. If they try to take on the superior media machines (never mind the graphically disparity), they are going to have to rely on their 1st party with slim to no third party support, not a good position to be in.

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02-12-2013, 12:29 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
The problem with this statement is that the year is quite barren for the Wii U at the moment (of course this will change come E3). In addition to that, developers are flat out cancelling Wii U projects, and the big multiplatform games of the year are not hitting Wii U, except for maybe Tomb Raider.

So once again Nintendo is between a rock and a hard place, where they will basically be the only ones supporting their system. And it's not really a problem you can throw money at, while you can buy yourself a shoddy port of a game, devs are moving on to next gen by now. While some teams will stick around with this gen a bit longer, within 2 years the Wii U will be getting downports with cut features, except those games will likely come out on PS3 and 360 as well.

And no, the Wii U is not a value proposition for developers when even Call of Duty didnt sell much over 100k units. Shoddy ports of things that came out 6 months ago is great for people that didnt buy either of the other two systems, but that is not the market that will buy your system at launch anyways. Hardcore gamers, who are likely to own all or multiple systems are the hardcore, and baiting them with crappy exclusive third party support that the console then loses is a world of hurt.

Ninja Gaiden and Rayman are the perfect examples of this.

No one is questioning that Nintendo will bring the rain in terms of first party, and a strong first party at that. But they are losing ground quickly with the third party, and combined with a confusing marketing campaign and a relatively barren launch window (for new games because stuff like Pikmin got pushed back) means most of the hardcore are taking a wait and see approach. No hardcore means no word of mouth, means no casual people either.

Never mind their god awful online ID system that would have been viewed as archaic in 2008.

While its hard to be clear and concise while typing all this out in class, when the PS4 and Nextbox get announced or come out, PS3 and 360 will be dropping in price until they eventually hit $99. The Wii U is going to have to keep up with them, because that's its comparables. If they try to take on the superior media machines (never mind the graphically disparity), they are going to have to rely on their 1st party with slim to no third party support, not a good position to be in.
Well that statement right there pretty much tells me that you haven't actually played the Wii U online.

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02-12-2013, 01:42 PM
  #92
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Well that statement right there pretty much tells me that you haven't actually played the Wii U online.
I have, and the fact that 3DS, Wii and Wii U are not all linked to an account that works irrespective of the actual system itself proves that you need to take your blinders off.

Making people repurchase what they already own (even if Nintendo did offer a discount) is completely stupid.

So yeah, don't make generalizations and then get blown out of the water by someone who knows what they are talking about.

Is there a chance Microsoft and Sony follow suit for some reason and make you rebuy content that works cross system? Yes. Will I think it's stupid then if it happens? Yes.

Also, returning a defective console should not lock you out of all your old stuff, even if you did a Wii to Wii U system transfer. There are people in limbo because of this, screwed out of hundreds of dollars in purchases.

The sad thing is, I'm really a Nintendo fanboy, I own all their consoles and some of their portables, but I know when to call a spade a spade. I even have a Virtual Boy.

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02-12-2013, 02:10 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
The problem with this statement is that the year is quite barren for the Wii U at the moment (of course this will change come E3). In addition to that, developers are flat out cancelling Wii U projects, and the big multiplatform games of the year are not hitting Wii U, except for maybe Tomb Raider.

So once again Nintendo is between a rock and a hard place, where they will basically be the only ones supporting their system. And it's not really a problem you can throw money at, while you can buy yourself a shoddy port of a game, devs are moving on to next gen by now. While some teams will stick around with this gen a bit longer, within 2 years the Wii U will be getting downports with cut features, except those games will likely come out on PS3 and 360 as well.

And no, the Wii U is not a value proposition for developers when even Call of Duty didnt sell much over 100k units. Shoddy ports of things that came out 6 months ago is great for people that didnt buy either of the other two systems, but that is not the market that will buy your system at launch anyways. Hardcore gamers, who are likely to own all or multiple systems are the hardcore, and baiting them with crappy exclusive third party support that the console then loses is a world of hurt.

Ninja Gaiden and Rayman are the perfect examples of this.

No one is questioning that Nintendo will bring the rain in terms of first party, and a strong first party at that. But they are losing ground quickly with the third party, and combined with a confusing marketing campaign and a relatively barren launch window (for new games because stuff like Pikmin got pushed back) means most of the hardcore are taking a wait and see approach. No hardcore means no word of mouth, means no casual people either.

Never mind their god awful online ID system that would have been viewed as archaic in 2008.

While its hard to be clear and concise while typing all this out in class, when the PS4 and Nextbox get announced or come out, PS3 and 360 will be dropping in price until they eventually hit $99. The Wii U is going to have to keep up with them, because that's its comparables. If they try to take on the superior media machines (never mind the graphically disparity), they are going to have to rely on their 1st party with slim to no third party support, not a good position to be in.
We're arguing different things here. I'm saying the sale expectations were ridiculous and people are freaking out over nothing. The U didn't sell as well as the Wii in the first couple of months -3 million instead of 3.5 million. The PS3 sold...930K in the first couple of month. The 360 sold even less. But this has been a massive failure for U?

in the end, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy on the part of industry. They work themselves into a froth over it, and run for the nearest cliff. they don't put out quality games, and then they use crappy sales of shovelware or the occasional under the radar (such as No More Heroes on Wii) to justify it.

And I disagree about it not being something you can throw money at. Bayonetta 2 isn't a port. But it was a game whose funding wasn't coming, and Nintendo was able to step in. Those are situations they can use to bulk up their gaming library, and it's something I think they'll need to exploit. And with studios crashing and burning, they should have opportunities to step in and pull more IP under their umbrella.Would those things still be, technically, 3rd party? Maybe not, but they need more quality titles.

I also think the "hardcore" are taking a wait and see approach regardless of when Pikmin is released. considering their lack of support with the Wii, and I don't think it's the death knell you make it out to be, but I do agree that Nintendo needs to work harder to make their system interesting to that group.

edit: for example of people Chicken Littling it, there's the bit in the article Habsfan18 posted about some developer upset that a title sold thousands instead of millions...when all of 2.7m million people own the console. There is probably some exaggeration going on, but expectations just don't seem to be realistic by some of these people.


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02-12-2013, 03:04 PM
  #94
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We're arguing different things here. I'm saying the sale expectations were ridiculous and people are freaking out over nothing. The U didn't sell as well as the Wii in the first couple of months -3 million instead of 3.5 million. The PS3 sold...930K in the first couple of month. The 360 sold even less. But this has been a massive failure for U?

in the end, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy on the part of industry. They work themselves into a froth over it, and run for the nearest cliff. they don't put out quality games, and then they use crappy sales of shovelware or the occasional under the radar (such as No More Heroes on Wii) to justify it.

And I disagree about it not being something you can throw money at. Bayonetta 2 isn't a port. But it was a game whose funding wasn't coming, and Nintendo was able to step in. Those are situations they can use to bulk up their gaming library, and it's something I think they'll need to exploit. And with studios crashing and burning, they should have opportunities to step in and pull more IP under their umbrella.Would those things still be, technically, 3rd party? Maybe not, but they need more quality titles.

I also think the "hardcore" are taking a wait and see approach regardless of when Pikmin is released. considering their lack of support with the Wii, and I don't think it's the death knell you make it out to be, but I do agree that Nintendo needs to work harder to make their system interesting to that group.

edit: for example of people Chicken Littling it, there's the bit in the article Habsfan18 posted about some developer upset that a title sold thousands instead of millions...when all of 2.7m million people own the console. There is probably some exaggeration going on, but expectations just don't seem to be realistic by some of these people.
I don't see why this is complicated... it's about game sales, not console sales.

It's one thing to sell 3 million consoles, it's another to have a 6 + game attach rate on those 3 mil consoles that would be 18,000,000 games sold.... there's only 16 games out... even if there's 4-5 flops in there there should be many many with over 1,000,000 sales...

If you have a top reviewed game in there that doesn't have 1,000,000 + in sales there's something wrong with the console.

I don't know what it is about Nintendo fans? vs "hardcore" fans? (of course there's an overlap)... but the sales for 3rd party just seem to be off.

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02-12-2013, 03:34 PM
  #95
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I don't see why this is complicated... it's about game sales, not console sales.

It's one thing to sell 3 million consoles, it's another to have a 6 + game attach rate on those 3 mil consoles that would be 18,000,000 games sold.... there's only 16 games out... even if there's 4-5 flops in there there should be many many with over 1,000,000 sales...

If you have a top reviewed game in there that doesn't have 1,000,000 + in sales there's something wrong with the console.

I don't know what it is about Nintendo fans? vs "hardcore" fans? (of course there's an overlap)... but the sales for 3rd party just seem to be off.
There are frequently games on all platforms that get top review scores but don't find great commercial success. I suppose you could say Nintendo probably gets a bigger share of them, but it's not something unique to Nintendo.

Also I don't have the data in front of me but isn't the Wii-U doing a relatively good job with software sales for it's launch? I recall hearing # of games per console sale is much higher on the Wii-U than it was for the Wii somewhere.

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02-12-2013, 05:14 PM
  #96
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There are frequently games on all platforms that get top review scores but don't find great commercial success. I suppose you could say Nintendo probably gets a bigger share of them, but it's not something unique to Nintendo.

Also I don't have the data in front of me but isn't the Wii-U doing a relatively good job with software sales for it's launch? I recall hearing # of games per console sale is much higher on the Wii-U than it was for the Wii somewhere.
No, the Wii U had good first quarter sales, but since then it has fallen off a cliff. If you want an example, it sold under 100k units in the UK last month, even the Vita is outselling it comfortably. Software is selling better, but even that has dropped like a rock.

That's the entire problem, in order for people to pick up the system, Nintendo needs to bring the big guns, and they simply haven't done that. In addition to this, it seems like people are beginning to find Nintendo's games stale (the new Zelda mandate covered this) so they really needed a Mario Galaxy or Mario Art or Smash Brothers to sell the system. A New Super Mario Brothers game is nice, but they've been using the "New" moniker for over 5 years now, it seems like it may be getting old.

The system isnt doomed, but its being slowly pushed to the edge of the cliff, and those of us that saw what happened to the GameCube are waiting for the other shoe to drop. As you said, this causes people to wait and see, which starts a spiral that Nintendo needs to break ASAP.

Bayonetta won't be the answer, as much as I love that game (and it will sell systems) its not a crossover success due to the skill requirement of action games.

What Nintendo really needs to do is convince Rockstar to release GTA5 same day on Wii U. That alone is 15 million plus in lost sales.

Nintendo can sell systems if they woo niche audiences like Xenoblade and those companies looking to be a bit cheaper next gen, however what kills them is that the Wii U is comparable to the current HD twins, which have at larger install bases. Once next gen hits, the Wii U will be getting downports just like the other two current systems, while the "true next gen" stuff will be PS4 and Nextbox.

The fact that this system should have been out 3 years ago and it has been horribly marketed are not helping. Third parties see this and are slowly walking away, and Nintendo needs to get them back ASAP.

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02-12-2013, 08:12 PM
  #97
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There are frequently games on all platforms that get top review scores but don't find great commercial success. I suppose you could say Nintendo probably gets a bigger share of them, but it's not something unique to Nintendo.

Also I don't have the data in front of me but isn't the Wii-U doing a relatively good job with software sales for it's launch? I recall hearing # of games per console sale is much higher on the Wii-U than it was for the Wii somewhere.
I understand all that but the discussions that were happening at the conference about devs worried about the Wii-U had to do, apparently, with a top reviewed game that everyone expected to sell well that was substantially under 1,000,000 units sold.

I'm assuming it was also a 3rd party title as it was the 3rd party developers freaking out.

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02-14-2013, 08:05 AM
  #98
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http://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-dir...ve/02-14-2013/

https://www.facebook.com/Nintendo/app_419674594755191

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02-14-2013, 07:24 PM
  #99
Orpheus
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The Wii U has sold 55k units (tentative) in the month of January.

By contrast, 360 sold 281k units.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513443

Come on Nintendo, get your head out of your butt

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02-14-2013, 10:25 PM
  #100
Winger98
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Nintendo has nothing coming out on the software side for February, and there's nothing they can do about it. Remember way back when Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101 were supposed to be "launch window" titles? Might have been smart to have them ready.

I expected 75-90K for sales, because there's really been no reason to buy it with no new titles.

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