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Old
07-07-2006, 01:19 PM
  #26
jerseydevil
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
No. It's fine if you think Svatos has a bigger upside than Prucha. But you've done nothing to explaine this comment:
Ok...He had one great playoff year in the Czech leagues...other than that in

Reg season

2002-47 games - 17 points
2003-48 games - 24 points
2004- 49 games - 16 pts

8th round draft pick- 240 th overall - obviously not thought of too highly, and he fell off considerably after his injury this year..and was slightly invisible during the playoffs

Petr Prucha is 24 years old this year..not 18. I think he had a great year, but there is nothing in his past that should lead anyone to believe that he will be able to stay at this level of goal scoring.

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07-07-2006, 01:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by jerseydevil View Post
Ok...He had one great playoff year in the Czech leagues...other than that in

Reg season

2002-47 games - 17 points
2003-48 games - 24 points
2004- 49 games - 16 pts

8th round draft pick- 240 th overall - obviously not thought of too highly, and he fell off considerably after his injury this year..and was slightly invisible during the playoffs

Petr Prucha is 24 years old this year..not 18. I think he had a great year, but there is nothing in his past that should lead anyone to believe that he will be able to stay at this level of goal scoring.
So he can't replicate the season because he's 24 and was an 8th round pick. Got it.

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07-07-2006, 01:28 PM
  #28
jerseydevil
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
So he can't replicate the season because he's 24 and was an 8th round pick. Got it.
Wow..you're really acting like a child...You asked me explain why I thought Prucha could not replicate this season..I showed you his stats since he was 20 years old and how he has never been a true goal scorer...And you chose to take one line out of all of the explanation and make a sarcastic comment?

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07-07-2006, 01:38 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseydevil View Post
Ok...He had one great playoff year in the Czech leagues...other than that in

Reg season

2002-47 games - 17 points
2003-48 games - 24 points
2004- 49 games - 16 pts

8th round draft pick- 240 th overall - obviously not thought of too highly, and he fell off considerably after his injury this year..and was slightly invisible during the playoffs

Petr Prucha is 24 years old this year..not 18. I think he had a great year, but there is nothing in his past that should lead anyone to believe that he will be able to stay at this level of goal scoring.
Nothing if you don't scratch the surface, that is. Most of us here on this Rangers board have been following Prucha for years and have been very, very excited about him for a long time.

In those regular seasons you list, he was playing on an energy 'kid' line for Pardubice, but his scoring talent was well noted -- he was the first one to get promoted if one of the senior players got injured. The year he was supposed to become a top-line scoring winger on the team, Pardubice hired a tonne of scoring talent from the NHL, including Milan Hejduk. This really cut back the playing time from what he had expected (and I think was a big reason he bolted for the Rangers).

Nevertheless, he was called up to the Czech national squad for more than one major tournament (one of the few youngsters in the country who was) and even played on the powerplay alongside Jaromir Jagr (part of the reason he and Jagr are friends and roommates in New York is that Jagr already knew him from the Czech team).

I'd say that's plenty of reason to believe that he can stay at this level of scoring -- throughout his career, consistency has been his strongest suit.

As you're not a Rangers fan, there's little reason you would know any of this, of course.

Your argument about Prucha being a low-round draft pick doesn't make sense in this thread, though: Prucha was chosen in the 8th round #240 in 2002, yes, but Svatos was chosen in the 7th round, #227 in 2001.

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07-07-2006, 01:39 PM
  #30
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I cant speak much for Svatos...havent seen him play enough to make a judgement.

Prucha is definately a good young talent with a nose for the net. But if he wants to take it to the next level he really needs to learn to skate with the puck. I can't think of anyone in recent memory thats been bumped off the puck so easily.

Even without that ability though I cant think of any reason why he wont be a consistent 30 goal scorer in the league(minus injury).

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07-07-2006, 01:40 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseydevil View Post
Wow..you're really acting like a child...You asked me explain why I thought Prucha could not replicate this season..I showed you his stats since he was 20 years old and how he has never been a true goal scorer...And you chose to take one line out of all of the explanation and make a sarcastic comment?
Also, in Czech juniors, he was one of the alltime leading snipers.

Further explanation to why both he and Svatos fell so far in the draft is that both are waterbugs, small players. In the old NHL, where talent was easily stifled, neither one would have been anywhere near as successful.

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07-07-2006, 01:43 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by jerseydevil View Post
Wow..you're really acting like a child...You asked me explain why I thought Prucha could not replicate this season..I showed you his stats since he was 20 years old and how he has never been a true goal scorer...And you chose to take one line out of all of the explanation and make a sarcastic comment?
No sarcasm. Don't see what his age where he was drafted has to do with anything.

Compare Prucha past to Gionta's and the concern has to be the same for both guys then.

Gionta had good numbers in college but they went down every season he was at BC. He had average seasons in Albany and with the Devils and then exploded for 89 points.

And it's not a Devils-Ranger thing. And I'm a known Gionta fan.

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07-07-2006, 01:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 007 View Post
Nothing if you don't scratch the surface, that is. Most of us here on this Rangers board have been following Prucha for years and have been very, very excited about him for a long time.

In those regular seasons you list, he was playing on an energy 'kid' line for Pardubice, but his scoring talent was well noted -- he was the first one to get promoted if one of the senior players got injured. The year he was supposed to become a top-line scoring winger on the team, Pardubice hired a tonne of scoring talent from the NHL, including Milan Hejduk. This really cut back the playing time from what he had expected (and I think was a big reason he bolted for the Rangers).

Nevertheless, he was called up to the Czech national squad for more than one major tournament (one of the few youngsters in the country who was) and even played on the powerplay alongside Jaromir Jagr (part of the reason he and Jagr are friends and roommates in New York is that Jagr already knew him from the Czech team).

I'd say that's plenty of reason to believe that he can stay at this level of scoring -- throughout his career, consistency has been his strongest suit.

As you're not a Rangers fan, there's little reason you would know any of this, of course.

Your argument about Prucha being a low-round draft pick doesn't make sense in this thread, though: Prucha was chosen in the 8th round #240 in 2002, yes, but Svatos was chosen in the 7th round, #227 in 2001.
Just show me where he has scored goals in ANY league besides last year....I'm not saying he hasn't played along side great talent or that he didn't have a great year...

The one poster asked me to explain why I didn't think prucha would be able to continue at his current pace..and that is what i did..The discussion strayed away from Svatos at that point.

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07-07-2006, 01:57 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by jerseydevil View Post
Just show me where he has scored goals in ANY league besides last year....I'm not saying he hasn't played along side great talent or that he didn't have a great year...

The one poster asked me to explain why I didn't think prucha would be able to continue at his current pace..and that is what i did..The discussion strayed away from Svatos at that point.
You dont follow the leagues in Europe much, do you?

Anyway, 11 goals in the top Czech league as 21 year old is very, very good. The next year his ice-time dropped siginificantly because of the addition of NHLers on his team (due to the lockout) which explains why his goals dipped. Last year he performed consistently in the NHL and scored 2 goals in 2 games in the AHL. I'm not really sure what else you would like him to have done.

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07-07-2006, 02:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseydevil View Post
Just show me where he has scored goals in ANY league besides last year....I'm not saying he hasn't played along side great talent or that he didn't have a great year...

The one poster asked me to explain why I didn't think prucha would be able to continue at his current pace..and that is what i did..The discussion strayed away from Svatos at that point.
OK, get you on the Svatos point.

You have to get off the stats machine and actually look at how the player played. For the amount of icetime he got as a very young player in Pardubice, he put up a lot of goals and points.

His last year in the Czech republic was a bit of a disappointment, brought on in part by his being unhappy about getting so little icetime, but if you delve back into our posts from the last few years (if they're on this board still), you'll see that Prucha being a scoring threat is nothing new. When he did play top-line minutes (because of injuries to other players), he put up top-line numbers.

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07-07-2006, 02:02 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
You dont follow the leagues in Europe much, do you?

Anyway, 11 goals in the top Czech league as 21 year old is very, very good. The next year his ice-time dropped siginificantly because of the addition of NHLers on his team (due to the lockout) which explains why his goals dipped. Last year he performed consistently in the NHL and scored 2 goals in 2 games in the AHL. I'm not really sure what else you would like him to have done.
I love it..you throw a jab with " You don't follow the European leagues, do you?"

And then back up your insult with eleven goals????? ELEVEN! I'm sorry, but you haven't disproved my theory of '30 goals in the NHL' may be as good as it will ever get for Petr Prucha who has never scored at that kind of clip in his career...

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07-07-2006, 02:05 PM
  #37
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OK, get you on the Svatos point.

You have to get off the stats machine and actually look at how the player played. For the amount of icetime he got as a very young player in Pardubice, he put up a lot of goals and points.

His last year in the Czech republic was a bit of a disappointment, brought on in part by his being unhappy about getting so little icetime, but if you delve back into our posts from the last few years (if they're on this board still), you'll see that Prucha being a scoring threat is nothing new. When he did play top-line minutes (because of injuries to other players), he put up top-line numbers.
I'm with you on the argument....I understand your points..He is a good player. He played very well in his rookie year, I was very impressed. My initial point was that I'd be shocked if he can keep scoring like that in year 2.

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07-07-2006, 02:06 PM
  #38
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I cant speak much for Svatos...havent seen him play enough to make a judgement.

Prucha is definately a good young talent with a nose for the net. But if he wants to take it to the next level he really needs to learn to skate with the puck. I can't think of anyone in recent memory thats been bumped off the puck so easily.

Even without that ability though I cant think of any reason why he wont be a consistent 30 goal scorer in the league(minus injury).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8g6l...&search=prucha

Checkout the goal vs. Edmonton at around 5:11 of this highlight vid.

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07-07-2006, 02:12 PM
  #39
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jerseydevil...

If you watched Prucha play last season, you should've been able to see that he was a guy who has an NHL shot, and who finds a way to get that shot off while in position to score a goal, not playing the outside. That's one reason why Prucha can replicate what he did. You can point to what he did in the overseas leagues, and I pointed to the same prior to Prucha coming over when people projected him in the lineup and I thought it was premature for such projections given question marks concerning Prucha. The fact is, in his last season in that league, he was placed on the third and fourth lines to make room for proven NHL vets. This is at the age of 22, which is still young for a kid in a men's league. He was finally given time to play, I believe, late in the season which went into the playoffs, where his numbers spoke for themselves. As such, his playoff numbers were a bit more indicative of what he can do when given the chance, and was also at a more mature level in his professional career. In his previous season, he put up good numbers for a 21 year old playing with some damn good Czech players who are a heck of a lot more experienced for him.

What he's done recently is relevant. While I cannot guarantee his numbers this past season, I'd say that scoring 30 goals in his first NHL season, while playing less than 14 minutes per game over 68 games, while struggling the last 6 weeks after a knee injury, and starting the season playing 8 minutes per night, is pretty damn impressive, I think.

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07-07-2006, 02:14 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8g6l...&search=prucha

Checkout the goal vs. Edmonton at around 5:11 of this highlight vid.
To find only one example of him carrying the puck through the zone with pressure on a 7 minute video doesnt change my opinion. Not to mention that defense was pretty bad on that play. He let prucha just skate around him.

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07-07-2006, 02:15 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
If you watched Prucha play last season, you should've been able to see that he was a guy who has an NHL shot, and who finds a way to get that shot off while in position to score a goal, not playing the outside. That's one reason why Prucha can replicate what he did. You can point to what he did in the overseas leagues, and I pointed to the same prior to Prucha coming over when people projected him in the lineup and I thought it was premature for such projections given question marks concerning Prucha. The fact is, in his last season in that league, he was placed on the third and fourth lines to make room for proven NHL vets. This is at the age of 22, which is still young for a kid in a men's league. He was finally given time to play, I believe, late in the season which went into the playoffs, where his numbers spoke for themselves. As such, his playoff numbers were a bit more indicative of what he can do when given the chance, and was also at a more mature level in his professional career. In his previous season, he put up good numbers for a 21 year old playing with some damn good Czech players who are a heck of a lot more experienced for him.

What he's done recently is relevant. While I cannot guarantee his numbers this past season, I'd say that scoring 30 goals in his first NHL season, while playing less than 14 minutes per game over 68 games, while struggling the last 6 weeks after a knee injury, and starting the season playing 8 minutes per night, is pretty damn impressive, I think.
Agreed. His year with the Rangers was impressive. Living in the area..I saw a lot of the Rangers..If he can develop physically into a stronger player..he's got a good shot to be a consistent player in the NHL ( i still question 30 a year) but a nice player

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07-07-2006, 02:17 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by jerseydevil View Post
I love it..you throw a jab with " You don't follow the European leagues, do you?"

And then back up your insult with eleven goals????? ELEVEN! I'm sorry, but you haven't disproved my theory of '30 goals in the NHL' may be as good as it will ever get for Petr Prucha who has never scored at that kind of clip in his career...
It wasnt a jab, it was an observation that you just backed up with your little outburst.

In the Czech league, people don't score like they do in the NHL. Breaking 30 isnt common (in fact no one did it that year) so scoring 11 goals as a 21 year old is good. Scoring in the European elite leagues is much different than in the NHL and moreso than in the CHL and other NA junior leagues.

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07-07-2006, 02:20 PM
  #43
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It wasnt a jab, it was an observation that you just backed up with your little outburst.

In the Czech league, people don't score like they do in the NHL. Breaking 30 isnt common (in fact no one did it that year) so scoring 11 goals as a 21 year old is good. Scoring in the European elite leagues is much different than in the NHL and moreso than in the CHL and other NA junior leagues.
oh geez...no one is comparing the czech leagues to the juniors over here..Just claiming that scoring 11 goals in approx 50 game season is not that impressive...agree to disagree.

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07-07-2006, 02:22 PM
  #44
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To find only one example of him carrying the puck through the zone with pressure on a 7 minute video doesnt change my opinion. Not to mention that defense was pretty bad on that play. He let prucha just skate around him.
Did you watch the first half of the season? Prucha always carried the puck. It was just at the end coming back from his injury where he really didn't handle the puck much and was wore down (also still having knee pain).

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07-07-2006, 02:27 PM
  #45
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Did you watch the first half of the season? Prucha always carried the puck. It was just at the end coming back from his injury where he really didn't handle the puck much and was wore down (also still having knee pain).
Yes I watched most of the games all year. I did notice it a lot more at the end of the year so its very possible I let that bias me. Either way, I still can't think of many times he actually led a rush effectively. Hopefully Im just biased by his end of season performance because id obviously love to be wrong about this one.

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07-07-2006, 02:34 PM
  #46
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Ok...He had one great playoff year in the Czech leagues...other than that in

Reg season

2002-47 games - 17 points
2003-48 games - 24 points
2004- 49 games - 16 pts

8th round draft pick- 240 th overall - obviously not thought of too highly, and he fell off considerably after his injury this year..and was slightly invisible during the playoffs

Petr Prucha is 24 years old this year..not 18. I think he had a great year, but there is nothing in his past that should lead anyone to believe that he will be able to stay at this level of goal scoring.
In 2001-2002, he led the czech junior league in scoring with 33 goals and 56 points in 25 games.

Then he moved up to the higher czech league, and others have explained his production at that level.


it's also not like Svatos really showed anything before last season that indicated he would be the talent he is at the NHL level (in terms of stats I mean) yeah his second year with the Ice was pretty good, but those aren't necessarily amazing numbers for CHL players. His AHL numbers aren't terribly great, and that actually leads me to the one thing I don't like about Svatos. He dogged it, dogged it during the lockout season in the AHL because he felt he was too good for the AHL. Instead of working on bettering his game (like Eric Staal) he mailed it in. I don't like that.

But I think Svatos is more of an offensive talent than Prucha and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him score more than Prucha. But if the Rangers continue to put Prucha in the right situations to score goals (PP time, and with some good linemates) I can see him get 30 or more again. It's not like he scored those 30 goals on accident

edit: oh and when he returned from injury, he was basically still injured and was taking a bunch of painkillers before each game just to be able to skate on the ice. he wasn't healthy and it showed in some of his skating

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07-07-2006, 02:40 PM
  #47
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Good post, levitate...

very well said.

EDIT: And having less points that Jeff Ulmer in the AHL isn't all that impressive.

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07-07-2006, 02:46 PM
  #48
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I wonder if we would be having this discussion if Nigel Dawes was the rookie who scored 30 for us last year. Dawes and Svatos (former Kootenay Ice teamates) both put up very similar stats in Juniors.

How any one could compare CHL and Czech Extraliga in stats is beyond me. The year Prucha scored 11, no one outside of the top ten goal scorers netted more than 19.

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07-07-2006, 02:49 PM
  #49
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That's another conversation, McRanger...

but didn't Dawes put up much better numbers than Svatos at similar ages?

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07-07-2006, 02:50 PM
  #50
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I love how jerseydevil thinks Prucha is a fluke already and we aren't even close to training camp yet. You can have this arguement once the season starts and see how he is doing. There is no basis whatsoever that you can come up with that he will have a crappy season. Hell for all we know he could have a season that is 5 or 10 times better then last. You have no basis to say that he is going to ***** the bed next season, oh wait, because he was a 8th round pick, ya hes really gonna be bad because of that. Why don't you go back and look at players that have been picked late in the draft or not picked at all that have gone one to have great careers.

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