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playmaker vs goalscorer

View Poll Results: goalscorer vs playmaker
playmaker 36 59.02%
goalscorer 25 40.98%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:48 AM
  #26
sansabri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
Who were the average players Gretzky played with`?
think Bernie Nicholls to start off with.

edit: he wasn't average - but to go from 32 goals to 70 in one season...

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:50 AM
  #27
jbeck5
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Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
Who were the average players Gretzky played with`?
What about yachmenov on gretzky's left side in 95-96 rookie year yet its his career year because he played on gretzky's left when kurri got traded to the rangers. Khristich played on his right side when tocchet got traded to the bruins boosting his offense.

There's more, but i'll leave it at that.

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Old
02-12-2013, 12:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
I like the oates vs hull argument.

In the 90s, i always thought of hull as the purest one-dimensional scorer, and as oates as the purest one-dimensional playmaker. That being said, i think hull was slightly better then oates...making me want to choose the playmaker less in this situation.
It was the Hull and Oates pairing from where I think I learned a lesson from an old-timer. When discussing the pair at that time, I opined that maybe it was Hull that was padding Oates' numbers. He was a person of few words and he just suggested that maybe it was the other way around.

It cannot be mistaken that Hull's numbers when through the stratosphere immediately upon Oates' arrival, and returned to mere mortal status immediately after Oates left. Adam then went on to Boston to engineer the remarkable feat of an injury-riddled Cam Neely joining the very exclusive 50-goals in 50-games club.

Another observation, the San Jose Sharks have managed to upgrade their roster by trading quantity for quality where wingers such as Cheechoo, Setoguchi and Bernier were thought to have more value than they do. Players can look so promising when playing with a guy like Thornton but disappoint elsewhere.

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:29 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by um View Post
goal scorer easily, goal scorers are much harder to find
anyone can be a goalscorer with a great playmaker on their line

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Old
02-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #30
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There are enough playmakers on the Bruins, give me a goal scorer who will shoot the ****ing puck instead of making behind-the-back passes leading to nothing on the PP.

2/too many. Not counting the EN.

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Old
02-12-2013, 04:14 PM
  #31
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Goal scorer. The point that playmakers score more points than goalscorers is becuase a) on average there's ~1.6-1.7 assists per goal, and b) goal scorers are more rare than playmakers.

I'd take a 40 goal 30 assist guy over a 30 goal 50 assist guy, I'd take a 50 goal 30 assist guy over a 30 goal 65 assist guy, etc.

Also some of the great "playmakers" or should I rather say, great players who racked up assists, were amazing goal scorers in their own rights. Mario and Wayne have the large majority of all of the top 10 seasons of assists yet Mario also peaked at 85 goals, and Wayne 90+. So it's incorrect to call them pure playmakers, Gretzky was the best playmaker of all time, but also a damn good goal scorer too.

You also can't really call the likes of Malkin and Crosby exclusively playmakers, both of them have put up 50 goal seasons.

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Old
02-12-2013, 04:25 PM
  #32
startainfection
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Originally Posted by Wrath View Post
Goal scorer. The point that playmakers score more points than goalscorers is becuase a) on average there's ~1.6-1.7 assists per goal, and b) goal scorers are more rare than playmakers.

I'd take a 40 goal 30 assist guy over a 30 goal 50 assist guy, I'd take a 50 goal 30 assist guy over a 30 goal 65 assist guy, etc.

Also some of the great "playmakers" or should I rather say, great players who racked up assists, were amazing goal scorers in their own rights. Mario and Wayne have the large majority of all of the top 10 seasons of assists yet Mario also peaked at 85 goals, and Wayne 90+. So it's incorrect to call them pure playmakers, Gretzky was the best playmaker of all time, but also a damn good goal scorer too.

You also can't really call the likes of Malkin and Crosby exclusively playmakers, both of them have put up 50 goal seasons.
jumbo joe turned cheechoo into a 50+ goal scorer, and was never a ver good goalscorer, what about someone like him?

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02-12-2013, 04:31 PM
  #33
Wrath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
jumbo joe turned cheechoo into a 50+ goal scorer, and was never a ver good goalscorer, what about someone like him?
Hull/Neely on Oates



And Oates was a damn good player, not taking anything away from him.

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Old
02-12-2013, 04:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by um View Post
thats a stupid comparision because thornton is way better than bondra.

a better example would be gartner vs. thornton
I dont get it. Bondra had a better peak/prime than Gartner.

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02-12-2013, 04:46 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
jumbo joe turned cheechoo into a 50+ goal scorer, and was never a ver good goalscorer, what about someone like him?
You can praise him all you want for that, even though i found it bullocks. Thornton was a very good playmaker, but he is not more dangerous than Bure or Selanne, because Thornton is to depended on his linemates.

Selanne and Bure don't need a elite playmaker to produce, and Thornton probably don't need a elite goalscorer to produce either, but if they don't score, Thornton don't score either. Conclusion has to be that a goalscorer is more dangerous on the offensive zone

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02-12-2013, 06:08 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Look at H.Sedin. The guy usued to score 10 goals a year with like 60 assists. Thats horrible.
But his two linemates get 40 and 30 so 80 goals from a top line is pretty good. Anyways he is usually closer to 20, but he is one of the most sole playmakers out there and seems allergic to shooting the puck at times.

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Old
02-12-2013, 06:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
anyone can be a goalscorer with a great playmaker on their line
this

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Old
02-12-2013, 06:17 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
this
Anyone can get assists off a great goalscorer. Works both ways.

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Old
02-12-2013, 06:19 PM
  #39
Auger
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Originally Posted by I Hate Chris Butler View Post
Anyone can get assists off a great goalscorer. Works both ways.
Am I missing something because only at the most superficial level does what you said makes sense.

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Old
02-12-2013, 06:38 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Chris Butler View Post
Anyone can get assists off a great goalscorer. Works both ways.
I just find that if a playmaker is playing with worse players he can elevate their game easier than a goal scorer

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Old
02-12-2013, 07:53 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Hull scored 86 goals. Oates assists are nice but 86 goals?
Hull only got those 86 because of Oates amazing playmaking abilities.


It really is a Hull vs Oates question.


I take Oates personally, but nothing wrong with going Hull. Subjective even.

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02-12-2013, 08:02 PM
  #42
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This is one of life's greatest mysteries...many, many minds greater than ours have debated this very question for centuries.

A great playmaker would make an average goal scorer become above average, no?

A great goal scorer would make an average playmaker become above average, no?

While I lean towards the playmaker because he makes all his players he plays with better, not just the goalscorers, there is no play unless the puck ends up in the back of the net, so great goalscorers are very valuable as well.

Tie!

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Old
02-12-2013, 08:07 PM
  #43
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basically a marleau or thornton.. IMO you can't go wrong with either one. However I, personally, appreciate goal scoring more. Scoring goals in this league is not easy, and if you can have a guy who can snipe em home on your team you gotta consider taking him.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:32 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
anyone can be a goalscorer with a great playmaker on their line
Nah I've seen Taylor Pyatt play with the Sedins and he still couldnt score.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:09 AM
  #45
7even
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If we're talking about a playmaker in the purest sense, he'll always be somewhat anchored to the finishers you put with him, whereas a pure goal scorer will score consistently regardless of the talent around him (I'm looking at you, ATL Kovalchuk). 40 goals vs 40 primary assists? Eh, I'll take the goals.

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