HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Phoenix LXXI: Daydream Belever

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-12-2013, 12:02 PM
  #976
Hawker14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetsfan79 View Post
I apologise in advance if this question was already answered or no longer applicable: Does Glendale still owe the NHL 25 million at the end of the season? And if so, has the new city council indicated one way or another on whether they plan on paying the bill?
The NHL had full rights, under the 2011 lease amendment, to extend the lease at their sole discretion. It hasn't been publicly released if they have extended the lease, or under what terms.

I would suggest however, that the fact they are playing games at the Jobing.com Arena is proof that they have obviously extended their lease, and thus will receive, at the very least, a pro-rated portion of the annual $25m as consideration of their executing their contractual obligations.

It doesn't make sense otherwise that they are lease-less tenants, at least to me anyway.

(However, there is a pretty smart lawyer here who can give a much better opinion of the situation!)

Hawker14 is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:13 PM
  #977
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker14 View Post
The NHL had full rights, under the 2011 lease amendment, to extend the lease at their sole discretion. It hasn't been publicly released if they have extended the lease, or under what terms.

I would suggest however, that the fact they are playing games at the Jobing.com Arena is proof that they have obviously extended their lease, and thus will receive, at the very least, a pro-rated portion of the annual $25m as consideration of their executing their contractual obligations.

It doesn't make sense otherwise that they are lease-less tenants, at least to me anyway.

(However, there is a pretty smart lawyer here who can give a much better opinion of the situation!)
I'm not sure that extending the lease comes with an automatic coverage of operating losses. I think that is a separate agreement. I doubt that Glendale is covering the losses for this season (yet).

In fact, that is one of the ominous signs for me. If the NHL thought that there was a serious chance that the team was staying, I would think that they would want someone to cover their losses until a sale goes through. Instead, it almost seems like they are ready to tip-toe out of town.

Whileee is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:31 PM
  #978
NorthernILHawksFan
Registered User
 
NorthernILHawksFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: IL
Country: United States
Posts: 269
vCash: 500
I'm not sure how well hockey will ever work in Phoenix and I do think the Yotes would be better off moving, but man, I do feel for the true hardcore fans down there.

It's one thing to see your team move, but it has to be worse to just get dicked around like this for four years. On top of that, seeing your team move after its best season in history.

NorthernILHawksFan is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:38 PM
  #979
Fidel Astro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernILHawksFan View Post
I do feel for the true hardcore fans down there.
Why? What have they done to earn your sympathy?

All I ever see is half-empty arenas, fans *****ing about how far the drive is to Glendale, absolutely pitiful excuses for "save the Yotes" rallies, etc.

Look, it's gonna suck to be a Coyotes fan when the team moves. I'm a Winnipegger. I know what that's like. But at least, for all those years when we didn't have a team, I knew that we, the fans, had tried. I haven't seen any evidence of Coyotes fans doing anything remotely similar.

Until they do, I'm going to reserve my sympathy for people who have earned it, like the fans in Quebec. Watching video of the Marche Bleue a few years back brings a tear to the eye.

Fidel Astro is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:43 PM
  #980
Hawker14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernILHawksFan View Post
I'm not sure how well hockey will ever work in Phoenix and I do think the Yotes would be better off moving, but man, I do feel for the true hardcore fans down there.

It's one thing to see your team move, but it has to be worse to just get dicked around like this for four years. On top of that, seeing your team move after its best season in history.
Or even worse, like Nords' fans, seeing your team win the Stanley Cup the season after it moves.

The true fans pay a huge emotional price, that goes on for years in my experience. In fact, it doesn't subside until a team's return.

But if you want it bad enough, if the market is truly viable, then imo fans can get a team back. The NHL gave us one back, and I think everyone would agree Winnipeg is not on their preferred destinations' list.

Hawker14 is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:50 PM
  #981
NHLfan4life
Who is PKP???
 
NHLfan4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glendale
Country: United States
Posts: 688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
Why? What have they done to earn your sympathy?

All I ever see is half-empty arenas, fans *****ing about how far the drive is to Glendale, absolutely pitiful excuses for "save the Yotes" rallies, etc.

Look, it's gonna suck to be a Coyotes fan when the team moves. I'm a Winnipegger. I know what that's like. But at least, for all those years when we didn't have a team, I knew that we, the fans, had tried. I haven't seen any evidence of Coyotes fans doing anything remotely similar.

Until they do, I'm going to reserve my sympathy for people who have earned it, like the fans in Quebec. Watching video of the Marche Bleue a few years back brings a tear to the eye.
We don't need your sympathy and fan bashing either. I'm pretty sure the reality of it is, your version of 'trying' does not match up to what actually happened in WPG. The 'rallies' you speak about in WPG have gotten bigger and the support for the team was not there in 95. I think if you drop it down a notch or 10, you'll realize this support fo the Jets in 95 is just legend.

I'd like to think Coyotes fans are a bit more realistic. We know if we 'try', it has NO effect on the outcome of this situation. We are all tired of it and we definitely don't have anything to prove to any other fan base or country. As soon as you understand that, the sooner you realize that we are all hockey fans. Not empathizing with someone in the same boat as you were in years ago probably means you hadn't learned a thing from it.

It is sad all around. If Quebec gets the Coyotes, more power to them. But it won't be because the Yotes fans didn't do enough and it won't be Quebec 'stealing' the team either. It's a business. I have yet to find one business pointing to another's customers saying their customers are better.

The NHL is in charge, not the fans of any country or team.

NHLfan4life is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:51 PM
  #982
kdb209
Global Moderator
 
kdb209's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...interest.html?

Anthony LeBlanc and Matthew Hulsizer

kdb209 is online now  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:56 PM
  #983
GuelphStormer
Registered User
 
GuelphStormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,706
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
I'm not sure that extending the lease comes with an automatic coverage of operating losses. I think that is a separate agreement. I doubt that Glendale is covering the losses for this season (yet).

In fact, that is one of the ominous signs for me. If the NHL thought that there was a serious chance that the team was staying, I would think that they would want someone to cover their losses until a sale goes through. Instead, it almost seems like they are ready to tip-toe out of town.
i agree. i think the league realizes it is on its own this year and has enough sense not to drag the city down with it between now and the end of this season.

GuelphStormer is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:57 PM
  #984
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,693
vCash: 350
Rinse and Repeat.

What else can you say. I think we should get JR back into the fold as well. Get all the original players back making their original proposals, we could get another 70 threads and 3 years out of this yet.

I miss the debates about who really owns the parking and the cupcake days.... let's do it all over again for good ol' times sake.

cbcwpg is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 12:59 PM
  #985
GuelphStormer
Registered User
 
GuelphStormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Guelph, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,706
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Rinse and Repeat.

What else can you say.
lather?

lather, rinse, repeat. rinsing without lathering is just silly.

GuelphStormer is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 01:02 PM
  #986
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,693
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
lather?

lather, rinse, repeat. rinsing without lathering is just silly.
I don't see any of the prospective owners in the last 4 years being truly on the "clean" side. They all seem a little "dirty" to me, so my guess is they are skipping the lather.

cbcwpg is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 01:03 PM
  #987
Hawker14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
I think if you drop it down a notch or 10, you'll realize this support fo the Jets in 95 is just legend.
On what measure do you make this claim ? I was there. Youtube videos are available.


Quote:
I'd like to think Coyotes fans are a bit more realistic. We know if we 'try', it has NO effect on the outcome of this situation. We are all tired of it and we definitely don't have anything to prove to any other fan base or country. As soon as you understand that, the sooner you realize that we are all hockey fans. Not empathizing with someone in the same boat as you were in years ago probably means you hadn't learned a thing from it.
Possibility of losing a team yes, but the circumstances couldn't possibly be more far apart. That's an absolutely beautiful arena in Glendale that has huge revenue-generating potential for the Coyotes. However, it doesn't generate those revenues. The NHL also never spent four years owning a franchise before.

Quote:
It is sad all around. If Quebec gets the Coyotes, more power to them. But it won't be because the Yotes fans didn't do enough and it won't be Quebec 'stealing' the team either. It's a business. I have yet to find one business pointing to another's customers saying their customers are better.
Absolutely right. The business of the Phoenix Coyotes is not viable. Bankrupt four years ago, and running on borrowed money and government handouts since.

Quote:
The NHL is in charge, not the fans of any country or team.
Absolutely.

Hawker14 is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 01:13 PM
  #988
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,693
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
We don't need your sympathy and fan bashing either. I'm pretty sure the reality of it is, your version of 'trying' does not match up to what actually happened in WPG. The 'rallies' you speak about in WPG have gotten bigger and the support for the team was not there in 95. I think if you drop it down a notch or 10, you'll realize this support fo the Jets in 95 is just legend.

I'd like to think Coyotes fans are a bit more realistic. We know if we 'try', it has NO effect on the outcome of this situation. We are all tired of it and we definitely don't have anything to prove to any other fan base or country. As soon as you understand that, the sooner you realize that we are all hockey fans. Not empathizing with someone in the same boat as you were in years ago probably means you hadn't learned a thing from it.

It is sad all around. If Quebec gets the Coyotes, more power to them. But it won't be because the Yotes fans didn't do enough and it won't be Quebec 'stealing' the team either. It's a business. I have yet to find one business pointing to another's customers saying their customers are better.

The NHL is in charge, not the fans of any country or team.
I don't usually get involved in this whole "my rally was bigger than yours" argument because it's just dumb. And to come to the defense of a Coyotes fan, you are right.... The NHL is in charge... and they will do whatever they want regardless of any fan showing of support. I never went to that Winnipeg rally because I knew it was a waste of time. The team was gone and no amount of emptying piggy-banks was going to make a difference. The NHL doesn't care about the grass roots effort... all they care about is someone giving them a $170M cheque. And after 4 years, I wouldn't be trying to convince some buyer either. Buy the team and I will be back. That would be my message.

cbcwpg is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 01:15 PM
  #989
jimmycrackcorn
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jimmycrackcorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,304
vCash: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
The 'rallies' you speak about in WPG have gotten bigger and the support for the team was not there in 95. I think if you drop it down a notch or 10, you'll realize this support fo the Jets in 95 is just legend.
You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about with that statement...

I would feel "sorry" for fans of the franchise if they supported the team by filling the building at average NHL ticket prices.

They haven't.

It's over.


Last edited by jimmycrackcorn: 02-12-2013 at 01:26 PM.
jimmycrackcorn is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 01:17 PM
  #990
Hawker14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I never went to that Winnipeg rally because I knew it was a waste of time.
Yeah, you and 570,000 other Haters !


Hawker14 is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 01:22 PM
  #991
Llama19
Registered User
 
Llama19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Apocalypse, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,231
vCash: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
lather?

lather, rinse, repeat. rinsing without lathering is just silly.


I think the 'potential' owners are in a 'lather'...

Llama19 is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:04 PM
  #992
goyotes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
Why? What have they done to earn your sympathy?

All I ever see is half-empty arenas, fans *****ing about how far the drive is to Glendale, absolutely pitiful excuses for "save the Yotes" rallies, etc.

Look, it's gonna suck to be a Coyotes fan when the team moves. I'm a Winnipegger. I know what that's like. But at least, for all those years when we didn't have a team, I knew that we, the fans, had tried. I haven't seen any evidence of Coyotes fans doing anything remotely similar.

Until they do, I'm going to reserve my sympathy for people who have earned it, like the fans in Quebec. Watching video of the Marche Bleue a few years back brings a tear to the eye.
This is a very ignorant statement.

goyotes is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:07 PM
  #993
Mork
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,514
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Mork
The Clowns didn't get enough laughs first time around?

Life support. The whole operation is on life support. There's no other possible explanation for such desperate measures. It's beyond belief.

This is really the most credible group of purchasers out there? Good grief.

Mork is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:10 PM
  #994
goyotes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mork View Post
The Clowns didn't get enough laughs first time around?

Life support. The whole operation is on life support. There's no other possible explanation for such desperate measures. It's beyond belief.

This is really the most credible group of purchasers out there? Good grief.
One has to ask what the NHL's true exit strategy was when it bought the Coyotes. Did they ever believe a transfer of ownership was really going to take place, or where they just looking for a soft landing at a better market, and in the mean time, getting the CoG to carry their bags and fill the bags with $50M while they were at it?

goyotes is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:30 PM
  #995
metalfoot
Karlsson!
 
metalfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker14 View Post
The NHL had full rights, under the 2011 lease amendment, to extend the lease at their sole discretion. It hasn't been publicly released if they have extended the lease, or under what terms.

I would suggest however, that the fact they are playing games at the Jobing.com Arena is proof that they have obviously extended their lease, and thus will receive, at the very least, a pro-rated portion of the annual $25m as consideration of their executing their contractual obligations.

It doesn't make sense otherwise that they are lease-less tenants, at least to me anyway.

(However, there is a pretty smart lawyer here who can give a much better opinion of the situation!)
IANAL, but the $25M and the lease are two different things; perhaps CF has a better grasp, but the lease is one thing, the $25M is another. The lease was up to ten years, but the $25M came up annually, and has not come up a third time.

metalfoot is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:36 PM
  #996
goyotes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalfoot View Post
IANAL, but the $25M and the lease are two different things; perhaps CF has a better grasp, but the lease is one thing, the $25M is another. The lease was up to ten years, but the $25M came up annually, and has not come up a third time.
NHL getting $1M a month starting January to manage arena. No $25M payment to the NHL this year. Follow CoG budget meetings for source. Interesting how the CoG has now pegged the arena managment fee at a pro-rated $12M per year. Interesting, because that is what Moyes asked for before this all started and he threw the team into BK. Asked for, and the CoG rejected.

goyotes is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:37 PM
  #997
Joe T Choker
Roll Wide Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Country: Argentina
Posts: 23,129
vCash: 500
I'm down with Phoenix LXXII: Send in the Clowns

Joe T Choker is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:46 PM
  #998
silvercanuck
Registered User
 
silvercanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,041
vCash: 500
I seem to remember Winnipeg having the lowest ticket prices in the league and poor attendance before they left too.... Jets fans should be thankful they got their team back and get off their high horse. The Coyotes have a group of hardcore fans that will be just as upset as Winnipeg fans were if their team leaves. There's no need to act superior.

silvercanuck is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:47 PM
  #999
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,693
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
NHL getting $1M a month starting January to manage arena. No $25M payment to the NHL this year. Follow CoG budget meetings for source. Interesting how the CoG has now pegged the arena managment fee at a pro-rated $12M per year. Interesting, because that is what Moyes asked for before this all started and he threw the team into BK. Asked for, and the CoG rejected.
It's interesting that none of this may have happened if the CoG just gave Moyes what he asked for in the first place. IIRC at the time Beasley said something to the the effect of no way, no day, would the city ever give a subsidy.

In your opinion, had giving Moyes the $12M per year been a solution, or because of Moyes' claimed incompetence, he would have just delayed this and would be claiming BK now?

cbcwpg is offline  
Old
02-12-2013, 02:47 PM
  #1000
aj8000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 683
vCash: 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker14 View Post
Yeah, you and 570,000 other Haters !

Some of the over 35,000 that attended the rally must have been haters as well since the Jets were not selling out the arena at that time. If all those who did attend the rally bought partial season tickets the place would have been sold out for years

aj8000 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.