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Brian Boyle (The "He just plain sucks" Edition)

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Old
02-12-2013, 01:38 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Anyone who had to sit through the rangers black years knows that a team like last year that gave 110% every single shift, is something that we have been missing for far to long and was an extremely welcome site.
Been a fan for over 35 years.

Last year made me both frustrated and proud.

Proud that for long stretches of games the team took a beating. Kept pinned in their zone for stretches at a time. Disproportinatelys when the final score was tallied.

However, as proud as I was to see them bend, bend and bend some more but never break, I was just as frustrated in the sense that I didn't think it was necessary or productive and I thought it was downright dangerous and scary.

I want a team that initiates contact and dictates pace.

I don't want a team that is going to spend more time than is needed in their own zone defending.

I want a PP that works and is dangerous. Doesn't even have to be top 5 in the league.

I want three lines that are dangerous offensively. I want a 4th line that can give me 5-8 minutes of defensively responsible hockey.

I don't think I am asking for, or expecting a lot.

I think we have the players to provide what I want in a hockey team.

I just hope the coach recognizes what he has and adjust his thought process to fit the team he has.

The last 2 games indicates that he has.

When Boyle gets back in there, it HAS to be in place of Asham.

Just not tonight against Boston

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02-12-2013, 01:39 PM
  #352
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Ok before I write this post, knowing that this is HF and EVERYTHING written here is taken literally, so much so that a silly smiley was created to discern sarcasm, I will preface this by saying, I'm not comparing the talent level of the team I'm about to talk about and the current Rangers. That said without further ado:

The 2008 Detroit Red Wings are my favorite non-Rangers team that I've watched since I started watching hockey seriously. Most of the main board disagree with me but I think they were the best team since the lockout to win it all (the Ducks are massively overrated, they were 3rd IMO well after the 08 Wings and 10 Hawks). Anyway, that team had selke caliber players and one of the best defensemen of all time not yet past his prime. I get that we don't have that personnel. They completely embarrassed what I believe is the best Pens team since 1993. Did they run around their own zone like chickens with their heads cut off blocking shots? Or did they do it by putting together a puck control clinic? Seriously what do you think would have been more effective against that talented team? What was better defense? Would doing what the Rangers did last year really be better defense? Now we won't be the 08 Wings since we don't have Lidstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. However, if we can play a similar style, wouldn't that be more preferable to the farce we saw last year?

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02-12-2013, 01:45 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Read it again, he clearly said "bashing the team when...is despicable".

It's not selfish, because that implies I'm being selfish towards somebody as if I'm preventing you two from enjoying the way the team played last year.
Perhaps entitled is a better word. You obviously feel youre entitled to not just a winning hockey team, but one that entertains you based on your specific needs.

Whats even more interesting than that is how you've made Brian Boyle your personal scapegoat because the team didnt play the way YOU wanted last season -- their most successful in a decade and a half.

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02-12-2013, 01:52 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Ok before I write this post, knowing that this is HF and EVERYTHING written here is taken literally, so much so that a silly smiley was created to discern sarcasm, I will preface this by saying, I'm not comparing the talent level of the team I'm about to talk about and the current Rangers. That said without further ado:

The 2008 Detroit Red Wings are my favorite non-Rangers team that I've watched since I started watching hockey seriously. Most of the main board disagree with me but I think they were the best team since the lockout to win it all (the Ducks are massively overrated, they were 3rd IMO well after the 08 Wings and 10 Hawks). Anyway, that team had selke caliber players and one of the best defensemen of all time not yet past his prime. I get that we don't have that personnel. They completely embarrassed what I believe is the best Pens team since 1993. Did they run around their own zone like chickens with their heads cut off blocking shots? Or did they do it by putting together a puck control clinic? Seriously what do you think would have been more effective against that talented team? What was better defense? Would doing what the Rangers did last year really be better defense? Now we won't be the 08 Wings since we don't have Lidstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. However, if we can play a similar style, wouldn't that be more preferable to the farce we saw last year?
I just think each team is different. You can't say, we should be more like this team since they won the cup, etc. if that was true, than every single year, teams would be re-arranging there style of play to match that of the previous cup winner.

A system and game plan starts years in advance with good organizations. The Rangers, like it or not, have built and developed an organization founded off of defense. This was proven by there constant draft picks of d-men. The way they've supplemented themselves through trades. It started even before Torts joined the club. It has become a piece of the identity and the fabric that stitches this team together. Whether or not I would enjoy watching a team like detroit is irrelevant, because the rangers aren't going to get rid of a system that they've been developing for nearly a decade now.

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02-12-2013, 01:54 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Perhaps entitled is a better word. You obviously feel youre entitled to not just a winning hockey team, but one that entertains you based on your specific needs.

Whats even more interesting than that is how you've made Brian Boyle your personal scapegoat because the team didnt play the way YOU wanted last season -- their most successful in a decade and a half.
I'm not entitled to anything. It's a personal preference, am I not allowed to have one?

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02-12-2013, 01:54 PM
  #356
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Well, this thread got off-topic in a hurry....

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02-12-2013, 01:55 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
Well, this thread got off-topic in a hurry....
Actually, i think it took quite a while. And technically, defensive team vs. offensive team is relevant in a brian boyle discussion lol

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02-12-2013, 01:57 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Been a fan for over 35 years.

Last year made me both frustrated and proud.

Proud that for long stretches of games the team took a beating. Kept pinned in their zone for stretches at a time. Disproportinatelys when the final score was tallied.

However, as proud as I was to see them bend, bend and bend some more but never break, I was just as frustrated in the sense that I didn't think it was necessary or productive and I thought it was downright dangerous and scary.

I want a team that initiates contact and dictates pace.

I don't want a team that is going to spend more time than is needed in their own zone defending.

I want a PP that works and is dangerous. Doesn't even have to be top 5 in the league.

I want three lines that are dangerous offensively. I want a 4th line that can give me 5-8 minutes of defensively responsible hockey.

I don't think I am asking for, or expecting a lot.

I think we have the players to provide what I want in a hockey team.

I just hope the coach recognizes what he has and adjust his thought process to fit the team he has.

The last 2 games indicates that he has.

When Boyle gets back in there, it HAS to be in place of Asham.

Just not tonight against Boston
Can't disagree with any of this.

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02-12-2013, 01:57 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
I just think each team is different. You can't say, we should be more like this team since they won the cup, etc. if that was true, than every single year, teams would be re-arranging there style of play to match that of the previous cup winner.

A system and game plan starts years in advance with good organizations. The Rangers, like it or not, have built and developed an organization founded off of defense. This was proven by there constant draft picks of d-men. The way they've supplemented themselves through trades. It started even before Torts joined the club. It has become a piece of the identity and the fabric that stitches this team together. Whether or not I would enjoy watching a team like detroit is irrelevant, because the rangers aren't going to get rid of a system that they've been developing for nearly a decade now.
I'd argue that the Wings are a defense first team. They did after all have a guy named Lidstrom. They also had a (multiple?) Selke winner in Datsyuk. Zetterberg was selke caliber too. Having great defensemen doesn't mean you should be stuck in your end the whole game and have grinders block shots all game.

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02-12-2013, 01:58 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Actually, i think it took quite a while. And technically, defensive team vs. offensive team is relevant in a brian boyle discussion lol
So Brian Boyle is at fault for the defensively-minded system the Rangers have had for years? I knew it all along!

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02-12-2013, 02:00 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
So Brian Boyle is at fault for the defensively-minded system the Rangers have had for years? I knew it all along!
No. He's second to Tom Renney.

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02-12-2013, 02:10 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
So Brian Boyle is at fault for the defensively-minded system the Rangers have had for years? I knew it all along!
If we had fewer players like Boyle and more players that can skate, pass, and shoot we'd be playing a different system.

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02-12-2013, 02:15 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by NashtyAttack View Post
So Brian Boyle is at fault for the defensively-minded system the Rangers have had for years? I knew it all along!
That's what we are being led to believe.

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02-12-2013, 02:16 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
If we had fewer players like Boyle and more players that can skate, pass, and shoot we'd be playing a different system.
You probably would've loved the rosters, on paper, of those 98-04 teams.

Coincidentally, they sucked.

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02-12-2013, 02:21 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You probably would've loved the rosters, on paper, of those 98-04 teams.

Coincidentally, they sucked.
Yeah a bunch of one dimensional past their prime has beens, no defense, and a past his prime Richter (at best), not having guys that can't skate, pass, and shoot is the reason they sucked.

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02-12-2013, 02:22 PM
  #366
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Oh and I forgot to mention, the Rangers have drafted a bunch of defensemen. They all have skills and can skate. They're not the reason the team was constantly pinned in their own zone.

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02-12-2013, 02:25 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Been a fan for over 35 years.

Last year made me both frustrated and proud.

Proud that for long stretches of games the team took a beating. Kept pinned in their zone for stretches at a time. Disproportinatelys when the final score was tallied.

However, as proud as I was to see them bend, bend and bend some more but never break, I was just as frustrated in the sense that I didn't think it was necessary or productive and I thought it was downright dangerous and scary.

I want a team that initiates contact and dictates pace.

I don't want a team that is going to spend more time than is needed in their own zone defending.

I want a PP that works and is dangerous. Doesn't even have to be top 5 in the league.

I want three lines that are dangerous offensively. I want a 4th line that can give me 5-8 minutes of defensively responsible hockey.

I don't think I am asking for, or expecting a lot.

I think we have the players to provide what I want in a hockey team.

I just hope the coach recognizes what he has and adjust his thought process to fit the team he has.

The last 2 games indicates that he has.

When Boyle gets back in there, it HAS to be in place of Asham.

Just not tonight against Boston
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Can't disagree with any of this.
I agree with all of it as well - although I can see instances where Boyle replaces Halpern rather than Asham.

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02-12-2013, 02:26 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Yeah a bunch of one dimensional past their prime has beens, no defense, and a past his prime Richter (at best), not having guys that can't skate, pass, and shoot is the reason they sucked.
Actually, most of those guys were in there primes, other than Bure, who was actually still pretty awesome in the half a season he was here.

Lindros was still putting up nearly 40 goals, Fleury was great, but became or decided to stop being an alcoholic, etc. etc.

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02-12-2013, 02:28 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Actually, most of those guys were in there primes, other than Bure, who was actually still pretty awesome in the half a season he was here.

Lindros was still putting up nearly 40 goals, Fleury was great, but became or decided to stop being an alcoholic, etc. etc.
Ok, the part about being one dimensional, no D, no goaltending. Almost forgot to mention that the coaches were clueless. Yep, it's the lack of players like Boyle that made them suck.

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02-12-2013, 02:49 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
You didn't specify. In fact, i'd argue that he had a shorter hot streak last year than the year before.

He was pretty good for the first 4 months of that 2010-11 season. Until basically right after the all star break, in february was when he dropped off.

Go look at the dates, i already did, and i acutely remember him dropping off significantly after the all star game that year which is why i was mixed up as to what season you were referencing.

I'm also still waiting on my halpern answers. You only brought up the fact that i called him pushing 40. A point that i wasn't looking to argue, but was rather just stating he is at a place in his career where he is the player he is going to be, unlike Boyle in his rookie season. I think that we can both agree on.

So please go check my boyle stats and get me some halpern stats. -31- and i are flooding you with factual arguments and you're just spewing nonsensical and untrue opinions.
So, I'm not going to start researching in detail the career of one Jeff Halpern. IMO he's a better player today than Brian Boyle. Speaking of Boyle in the 2010-11 season he scored 16 of his 21 goals between 10/27 and 1/25. So for three months he did some scoring. And that is the sum total of his offensive prowess.

But for the 30th time that isn't really the point. The point since he's a 4th liner is that his defensive abilities are overrated. He has alot of culpibility as it relates our inability to advance the puck into the O-zone and control it there. I didn't realize you were an embryo when I started this. Now I know. Stick to your opinions, I'll stick to mine. For now, Mr. Boyle is a healthy scratch.


Last edited by Bob Richards: 02-12-2013 at 04:58 PM.
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02-12-2013, 02:56 PM
  #371
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Listen junior, the minute you type the bolded you become an idiot in the eyes of everyone who posts here. So, I'm not going to start researching in detail the career of one Jeff Halpern. IMO he's a better player today than Brian Boyle. Speaking of Boyle in the 2010-11 season he scored 16 of his 21 goals between 10/27 and 1/25. So for three months he did some scoring. And that is the sum total of his offensive prowess.

But for the 30th time that isn't really the point. The point since he's a 4th liner is that his defensive abilities are overrated. He has alot of culpibility as it relates our inability to advance the puck into the O-zone and control it there. I didn't realize you were an embryo when I started this. Now I know. Stick to your opinions, I'll stick to mine. For now, Mr. Boyle is a healthy scratch.
I've been following the Rangers since i was born. I was a fan when they went through all those crappy years right after Gretzky and Messier split up. I had season tickets since 2004.

Ribbing me for my age only shows that your argument is weak. I don't need to prove that i know a lot about this Rangers team, or hockey in general to try and convince you of my opinion. I and others have constantly stated facts. You falsified facts (i.e. a 2 month hot streak) and spewed your opinions as if they were facts to try and prove a point that you still have not.

Great, you don't want to go digging for Halperns stats. Fact is, his recent offensive stats don't match up to those of boyles. I actually think Halpern is a better fit for the team than Boyle, in this exact moment. However, I think boyle is an important piece going forward.

I simply brought up his offensive numbers because you and some select others, seem to think that the fourth line should be producing and that since Halpern is a faster skater than boyle, he is inherently better on the offensive side of the puck, which, at this point in there respective careers, i disagree with and believe i have soundly proven via facts.

Again, you can continue to reference my age, while i will continue to give you facts and you can just sit there and give your opinion. If you think i'm the one that looks like an idiot here, then you're judgement in this conversation is about as poor as your assessment of Brian Boyle as an NHL player.

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02-12-2013, 03:02 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Listen junior, the minute you type the bolded you become an idiot in the eyes of everyone who posts here. So, I'm not going to start researching in detail the career of one Jeff Halpern. IMO he's a better player today than Brian Boyle. Speaking of Boyle in the 2010-11 season he scored 16 of his 21 goals between 10/27 and 1/25. So for three months he did some scoring. And that is the sum total of his offensive prowess.

But for the 30th time that isn't really the point. The point since he's a 4th liner is that his defensive abilities are overrated. He has alot of culpibility as it relates our inability to advance the puck into the O-zone and control it there. I didn't realize you were an embryo when I started this. Now I know. Stick to your opinions, I'll stick to mine. For now, Mr. Boyle is a healthy scratch.
So this makes everyone think I'm an idiot?


Funny that you mention opinions. You seem to think that your opinion is better than those of everyone else. Just because they see something differently doesn't mean that their opinion is void of credibility.

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02-12-2013, 03:05 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Again, you can continue to reference my age, while i will continue to give you facts and you can just sit there and give your opinion. If you think i'm the one that looks like an idiot here, then you're judgement in this conversation is about as poor as your assessment of Brian Boyle as an NHL player.
Its good that you have accepted this so quickly, because it will continue to be where your lucid arguments go.

As -31- likes to point out, all too often a fans eyes and vs. factor play a more important role than empirical statistical evidence.

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02-12-2013, 04:45 PM
  #374
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Miller's production is ridiculously unsustainable while Boyle's been unlucky both on the defensive and offensive side of the puck. I really hope management doesn't think that JT Miller is ready to be the 3C on this team and continue to scratch one of the better players on this team.

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02-12-2013, 04:57 PM
  #375
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It's incredibly amazing that this thread has gone through 374 posts of basically the same people reiterating the same points in slightly different ways. Aren't you guys bored of this conversation yet?

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