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Jamie Benn and Loui Eriksson

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02-12-2013, 01:59 PM
  #26
slaps
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You don't believe Kari is elite?
He's very good, but not elite. He's definitely a very good goalie, but he fades down the stretch. They lean on him too much, and he can't shoulder it. If they can get into the playoffs and he can steal some games there, then I could be inclined to change my opinion.

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02-12-2013, 02:08 PM
  #27
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There's a huge difference between not being elite and being played way too much leading to fatigue.

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02-12-2013, 02:15 PM
  #28
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He's a very good goalie. He can steal games now and then, but elite goalies lead their teams to the playoffs and win there.

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02-12-2013, 02:18 PM
  #29
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He's a very good goalie. He can steal games now and then, but elite goalies lead their teams to the playoffs and win there.
Oh what goalies have recently lead their inferior teams to the playoffs and won there?

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02-12-2013, 02:23 PM
  #30
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Oh what goalies have recently lead their inferior teams to the playoffs and won there?
Tim Thomas, Jonathan Quick, Cam Ward.

I never said the teams had to be inferior, but I did say that an elite goalie simply has another level they can go to, and Kari has yet to consistently demonstrate that.

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02-12-2013, 02:29 PM
  #31
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Tim Thomas, Jonathan Quick, Cam Ward.

I never said the teams had to be inferior, but I did say that an elite goalie simply has another level they can go to, and Kari has yet to consistently demonstrate that.
If the team is actually good how are you supposed to determine that it was goaltending that got them there? Do those teams win like they did without those goalies? Probably not. Does replacing Kari with one of those goalies result in making the playoffs and winning in them? I highly doubt it.

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02-12-2013, 02:35 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by slaps View Post
Tim Thomas, Jonathan Quick, Cam Ward.

I never said the teams had to be inferior, but I did say that an elite goalie simply has another level they can go to, and Kari has yet to consistently demonstrate that.
How much hockey do you watch?

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02-12-2013, 02:35 PM
  #33
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More than most of you, it seems, because I can recognize that Kari is a very good goalie, but he's not an elite, top-end goalie.

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02-12-2013, 02:38 PM
  #34
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More than most of you, it seems.
How long have you been playing?

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02-12-2013, 02:42 PM
  #35
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Oh, is being a player a prerequisite to be able to commentate on the abilities of players? Because if so, that's going to slash the membership here by a few.

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02-12-2013, 02:45 PM
  #36
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Oh, is being a player a prerequisite to be able to commentate on the abilities of players? Because if so, that's going to slash the membership here by a few.
Nope. Just saying you seem to have so much insight... Figured you'd been playing.

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02-12-2013, 02:50 PM
  #37
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Nope. Just saying you seem to have so much insight... Figured you'd been playing.
It's called being objective. I haven't said that Kari is a bad goalie. Quite the opposite, he was a steal by GM Joe. He's been a good goalie, but he's never really hit that extra level that differentiate the good goalies from the elite goalies.

To be fair, he also hasn't been afforded much of an opportunity to get there. If we make the playoffs with this roster, and he plays like he has been at the beginning of the season in the playoffs, I'll buy it more. But he's going to have be consistently good throughout the season for us to make the playoffs.

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02-12-2013, 03:22 PM
  #38
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So Benn will top out at 60-70 points a year, IF THAT. Hi, he has already accomplished 60 points, and was on an 80-85 point or so pace last season before appendicitus and a skate cut. His production dropped after he came back partly due to playing with bad line mates. He also didn't have any favors done regarding zone starts and lack of PP time opportunity - yet he was still on a 70 point pace at age 22, and was I believe 3rd in the league in points/60 minutes. Considering all of that I don't think it's hard to imagine him hitting 80+ points more than once in his career. That would make him a first line player. Actually, what he's shown he can do so far shows he's a first liner.

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02-12-2013, 03:31 PM
  #39
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You know what trumps pace? Actual production.

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02-12-2013, 03:35 PM
  #40
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You know what trumps pace? Actual production.
That doesn't make any sense. To be on a pace for something, you have to have production..at that pace.

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02-12-2013, 05:12 PM
  #41
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That doesn't make any sense. To be on a pace for something, you have to have production..at that pace.

"He was on a xx-point pace at xx year..." There's a big difference between projected total and actual production. He hasn't scored 30 goals at the NHL level, and has topped out at 63 points in 71 games. Nothing suggests that he is over or at a point per game player.

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02-12-2013, 05:36 PM
  #42
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10 players last year averaged a point per game or more that didn't just play 1-2 games. Only 25 forwards averaged a higher PPG average than Benn with at least 20 games played. That would mean there are only 25 forwards worthy of playing on a first line in the NHL based on your logic.

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02-12-2013, 05:37 PM
  #43
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ScubaSteve's protege?

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02-12-2013, 05:41 PM
  #44
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10 players last year averaged a point per game or more that didn't just play 1-2 games. Only 25 forwards averaged a higher PPG average than Benn with at least 20 games played. That would mean there are only 25 forwards worthy of playing on a first line in the NHL based on your logic.
I didn't say he had to average a point per game to be worthy of the first line. You did. I wasn't the one that suggested his ceiling was somewhere around 85 points, either.

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02-12-2013, 05:44 PM
  #45
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You said he's not a 1st line player. Last year he averaged .89 points per game which ranked 26th among forwards who played at least 20 games (20+ so it includes Crosby).

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02-12-2013, 05:49 PM
  #46
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And you're basing it solely on points. Call me when he can win a faceoff at least half the time. Or when he can defend as well as score some points. Or maybe when he can lift our PP from the gutter.

Legit #1's don't just score points, they play in all situations and make the people around them better.

Benn is much better suited to a wing position with a solid center.

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02-12-2013, 05:50 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by slaps View Post
And you're basing it solely on points. Call me when he can win a faceoff at least half the time. Or when he can defend as well as score some points. Or maybe when he can lift our PP from the gutter.
Kay, what's your number? We can get this overwith today if you want.

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02-12-2013, 05:57 PM
  #48
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Kay, what's your number? We can get this overwith today if you want.
Are you asking me out on a date? Challenging me to a duel? Or asking for a number at which I would consider Benn a legit #1 center after I just stated it's not entirely about points?

Because one is creepy, one is quaint, and the other indicates a lack of reading comprehension.

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02-12-2013, 05:57 PM
  #49
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Mmk, I'm convinced it's Scuba. Basically saying he can't play any defense and thinking a single player can fix a powerplay by himself.

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02-12-2013, 05:58 PM
  #50
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Are you asking me out on a date? Or asking for a number at which I would consider Benn a legit #1 center after I just stated it's not entirely about points?

Because one is creepy and the other indicates a lack of reading comprehension.
Now this is just hypocritical. "Call me when..."

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