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Old
02-12-2013, 02:04 PM
  #676
knowsthegame
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
I like how Jamison has slinked off into the night with barely a whimper. How the **** do you go from "the deal should close this week" to basically just disappearing?!
He must have lost his wallet.

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02-12-2013, 02:23 PM
  #677
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He never actually had money of his own. Once your #1 investor tells you they'd rather go for it alone, there aren't too many options left.

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02-12-2013, 02:52 PM
  #678
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For sale or no sale -- blame NHL?

Quote:
Here's a recent headline: Phoenix Coyotes Deal Goes South (Again)
And again, the story revolves around how Greg Jamison "failed to raise enough money" to buy the franchise, etc.

But are we absolutely certain that he failed to raise the money? Or did his investors refuse to hand over the money? Based on conversations I've had with NHL sources, maybe the more accurate account might be that Team Jamison became the latest prospective ownership group to refuse to meet the NHL's stated asking price of $170 million.

http://arizonasports.com/43/1609727/...ale--blame-NHL

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02-12-2013, 04:15 PM
  #679
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...and to think the league bought them for $140 mil.
Guess they don't care about expansion money.

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02-12-2013, 06:24 PM
  #680
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He never actually had money of his own. Once your #1 investor tells you they'd rather go for it alone, there aren't too many options left.
None of his suits fit. They were all probably bought at Goodwill. He cant have that much money to his name. lol

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Old
02-12-2013, 08:32 PM
  #681
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A must read for those who missed it the first time. If you are still under the illusion that the NHL somehow cares about Glendale, think again.

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02-12-2013, 09:57 PM
  #682
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None of his suits fit. They were all probably bought at Goodwill. He cant have that much money to his name. lol
Hey, what's wrong with Goodwill? I got virtually all my work clothes there. Every other saturday is 50% off day. I've found lots of Coyotes stuff there too.

seriously though Jamison sucks...

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02-12-2013, 10:50 PM
  #683
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=734

A must read for those who missed it the first time. If you are still under the illusion that the NHL somehow cares about Glendale, think again.
What was the original lease? Wasn't it for 30 years and if the team relocated they would have to pay the city a substantial fee? And the only way they could break the lease agreement was to declare bankruptcy? So the league decided after less than 5 years at Jobbing to terminate the lease agreement. And a little after the 'Yotes went into tank mode and out of the playoff hunt in February (3W in 12 games) and started off with just 1 win in 6 games in March (also ended Jan with 1 win in 5 games). I remember some of the questionable coaching decisions of the GO @ that time. I guess it would have been too hard on the league if a team was put into bankruptcy while making the playoffs. IMO, doesn't pass the smell test.

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02-12-2013, 11:57 PM
  #684
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Don't know if it's already been posted, but Joyce Clark has started up a pretty interesting Coyotes-related blog.

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/

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02-13-2013, 12:25 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Ted Mosby View Post
Don't know if it's already been posted, but Joyce Clark has started up a pretty interesting Coyotes-related blog.

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/
If by interesting you mean embarrassing, sure. I especially liked the part where she struggled to get even remotely close to the AMF when doing her fuzzy math. It just looks bad. There's no justification for giving Jamison $20 million a year other than a subsidy.

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02-13-2013, 02:49 AM
  #686
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He never actually had money of his own. Once your #1 investor tells you they'd rather go for it alone, there aren't too many options left.
Do we actually know this to be true? It seems to me that all we have is wild speculation because no one has come out and said a ****ing thing. Ugh...what a ****ing mess!

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:55 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=734

A must read for those who missed it the first time. If you are still under the illusion that the NHL somehow cares about Glendale, think again.
Before you hitch yourself onto that wagon.....

That entire post is based upon an email from a person who to this day has never been identified as to what his relationship with the events surrounding the Coyotes were.

If you want to know why I don't subscribe to it..... one just has to go back to the time when Balsillie was trying to buy the Predators and there were emails coming from "insider sources" sent to various govermental and media entities regarding the Predators situation. The attempt there was to sabotage the relationships between the city of Nashville, the NHL and the Preds.


Last edited by TheLegend: 02-13-2013 at 03:11 AM.
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02-13-2013, 03:14 AM
  #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Do we actually know this to be true? It seems to me that all we have is wild speculation because no one has come out and said a ****ing thing. Ugh...what a ****ing mess!
Nobody knows what the truth is except those who are or were directly involved with the situation.

Everything else has been speculation and ennuendo by people who want to know the truth, or people who want to pretend to know.

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02-13-2013, 03:56 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by TheLegend View Post

That entire post is based upon an email from a person who to this day has never been identified as to what his relationship with the events surrounding the Coyotes were.
Where is the proof of this? Everything is a matter of public record and available online. These are official documents entered into the court, not ******** made up in the media.

http://docs.bmcgroup.com/phoenixcoyo...k-9488_110.pdf

If you want to go to bat for the league, fine. The evidence simply doesn't support it.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:11 AM
  #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=734

A must read for those who missed it the first time. If you are still under the illusion that the NHL somehow cares about Glendale, think again.
I have known for sometime the NHL doesn't give a **** about the City of Glendale or the taxpayers of Glendale. After taking the time to read that post:



Words alone can't describe what I feel.

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02-13-2013, 04:20 AM
  #691
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

Words alone can't describe what I feel.
http://www.bizofhockey.com/docs/BettmanEmail.pdf

League figured the Coyotes should move back to Winnipeg if anything was going to happen.

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02-13-2013, 04:41 AM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
http://www.bizofhockey.com/docs/BettmanEmail.pdf

League figured the Coyotes should move back to Winnipeg if anything was going to happen.
I knew about the email as well but the more I look at this the more it appears that Moyes was the good guy in this mess.

Lots to think about.

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:31 AM
  #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=734

A must read for those who missed it the first time. If you are still under the illusion that the NHL somehow cares about Glendale, think again.
The NHL wanted concessions for the ownership. That's not the same as the NHL wanted to uproot and move the team. There's also question that the NHL was advocating bankruptcy--the Shumway declaration says he proposed the various options, including bankruptcy, that were discussed with the NHL.

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02-13-2013, 11:38 AM
  #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Mosby View Post
Don't know if it's already been posted, but Joyce Clark has started up a pretty interesting Coyotes-related blog.

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/
Thanks for the share. Today's entry was a good read and I'm curious to see where she is going with the arena agreements.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:46 PM
  #695
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That's not the same as the NHL wanted to uproot and move the team.
I'm not implying as much. The team is an asset, and with the AMULA voided, it becomes a much more palatable, portable asset at that. The 30 year lease was awful, and was basically an anchor around the neck of Moyes and the team. It's not like Moyes did much to help himself, paying Gretzky $7 million a year to coach for example, but it's not likely he would have found a way out of the mess regardless.

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02-13-2013, 01:17 PM
  #696
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That lease was awful from the private sector standpoint but ideal for the City and taxplayers of Glendale standpoint. I don't have really much in the way of sympathy for those who have a ******** of money who make bad business decisions especially if they are looking to get out of any responsibility of their own **** ups while in the process preach to those who are not rich that they are responsible for their own **** ups and must take responsibility. It's sad to see how many rich people can get away with not paying for their own ****s via bankruptcy(especially when it comes to government funding in anyway shape or form) yet it has become harder for those who really don't have money and are in need of backruptcy to be relieved of their debt.

Its ok for the rich to screw over the taxpayer, but not those who have student loan debt. What a world eh?

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02-13-2013, 01:27 PM
  #697
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Its ok for the rich to screw over the taxpayer, but not those who have student loan debt. What a world eh?
Bring back debtor's prison. Say, one day per $100K owed. You walk away from your home mortgage that you should have suspected you might not be able to afford? That's cool, just spend a weekend in the slammer. Your bankruptcy is responsible for screwing taxpayers out of $100M? Fine, but that's 3 years in the sin bin while you feel shame. (this is all tongue in cheek, of course, mostly)

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:58 PM
  #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyOldMan View Post
Bring back debtor's prison. Say, one day per $100K owed. You walk away from your home mortgage that you should have suspected you might not be able to afford? That's cool, just spend a weekend in the slammer. Your bankruptcy is responsible for screwing taxpayers out of $100M? Fine, but that's 3 years in the sin bin while you feel shame. (this is all tongue in cheek, of course, mostly)
I know you were mostly kidding but the banks didn't feel a thing in that debacle. Where would the bank offenders have to go in that situation? That is the main reason debt prisons don't exist, it's because it's hard to pin down where the bad decision resulting in bad debt had taken place. The bank approved these people in the first place.

The banks were bailed out on taxpayers' money on their bad decisions. That would be an awful lot of bank employees in those prisons

Ok, sorry, back on topic.

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02-13-2013, 04:16 PM
  #699
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On pages 5 and 6 of the TLHocking study it describes Conseco Fieldhouse, home to the Indiana Pacers. The TLHocking study obtained a 2010 major study prepared by Hunden Strategic Partners entitled “Impact of the Indiana Pacers.” It demonstrated that the Pacers were important to the venue and stated that the operating costs with the Pacers averaged $17.4M a year and without the Pacers averaged $21.1M a year. But the more relevant part of the Hunden study created a benchmark cost for running an arena based on the cost per seat. The HSP study was based on NBA facilities but it is also relevant for NHL facilities. The TLHocking study on page 6 quotes from the Hunden survey, “HSP studied a number of large, NBA facilities (or those that are NBA-ready) and observed that revenue and expenses vary but generally follow a line with an average $777 per seat with an average deviation of seven percent, suggesting a reasonable operating expense per seat of $722 to $831 per seat. The estimated expenses at Conseco are $819 per seat, six percent above the average of this sample and within the average range of costs.”

The use of a per seat cost seems to be the most accurate measure of arena operating costs. Based upon the figures used in the HSP study using the seating capacity of Jobing.com publicly listed as 17,799 and an average cost per seat of $777 the cost of operating Jobing.com would be $13,829,823. It then seems reasonable to peg any lease management agreement for Jobing.com arena at $14M annually with some kind of CIP escalator included.
http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/

Interesting. Not sure what to make of this. Waiting to see who tears it apart on the business board. But if Moyes was on the hook for operating costs and didn't receive any management fee (we know that much) it goes a long way towards explaining why the Coyotes were able to lose $30 million a year.

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02-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #700
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Bob McKenzie seems to believe that a realignment deal is close and will be announced in the next 10 days or so. I'm curious as to how they are able to do such a thing without the Phoenix situation resolved. If there's a team missing from the east, or an alternate plan floated, I think we're done.

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