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Greg Sherman & Co - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM

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Old
02-12-2013, 10:15 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
Gabe Landeskog - Matt Duchene - PA Parenteau
Chris Stewart - Paul Stastny - David Jones
Jamie McGinn- John Mitchell - Milan Hedjuk
Patrick Bordeleau - Marc Olver - Cody Mcleod
Chuck Kobasew

**O'Reilly

Defense

Kevin Shattenkirk - Ryan Wilson
JM Liles - Kyle Quincey
Ryan O'Byrne - Matt Hunwick

Goal:

Craig Anderson
JS Giguere

Prospects:

Filip Forsberg
Ty Rattie

That roster is arguably better than what we have now and we would have two very good prospects to look forward to unlike the ZERO we have now.
We don't have Siemens to look forward to?


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02-12-2013, 10:17 PM
  #602
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We don't have Siemens to look forward to?

We shall see. A guy who is at best a #4 is all we have to look forward to. Wow.

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02-12-2013, 10:19 PM
  #603
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We shall see. A guy who is at best a #4 is all we have to look forward to. Wow.
How is he at best a #4? I doubt he turns into a #1 but he can turn into a #2.

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02-12-2013, 10:20 PM
  #604
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How is he at best a #4? I doubt he turns into a #1 but he can turn into a #2.
I watch him play live every night. He isn't even the 2nd best D-man on his own team.

It's just another example of posters in here over-valuing every single player we have.

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02-12-2013, 10:28 PM
  #605
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I watch him play live every night. He isn't even the 2nd best D-man on his own team.

It's just another example of posters in here over-valuing every single player we have.
RS watches him every night as well and he has a very different opinion than yours. I guess we'll see how he turns out.

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02-12-2013, 10:30 PM
  #606
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RS watches him every night as well and he has a very different opinion than yours. I guess we'll see how he turns out.
Being a shut down D-man in the WHL does not translate to a #2 D-man in the NHL. Sorry to break it to ya, he is not Adam Foote and will never be.

Siemens has very little offensive upside. There is a reason he was left off Team Canada for the juniors two years in a row.

He may make an NHL roster but he will never be a top pairing D-man. No chance.

If he is this teams best prospect we are in worlds of hurt for the future.

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02-12-2013, 10:36 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
Being a shut down D-man in the WHL does not translate to a #2 D-man in the NHL. Sorry to break it to ya, he is not Adam Foote and will never be.

Siemens has very little offensive upside. There is a reason he was left off Team Canada for the juniors two years in a row.

He may make an NHL roster but he will never be a top pairing D-man. No chance.

If he is this teams best prospect we are in worlds of hurt for the future.
Omg Jared Cowen is a mega bust then. I think a squirrel has better logic than your posts.

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02-12-2013, 10:40 PM
  #608
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Omg Jared Cowen is a mega bust then. I think a squirrel has better logic than your posts.
Comparing Cowen to Siemens....HAHAHAHA...are you sure you want to talk about logic??

Are you related to Greg Sherman by any chance?

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02-12-2013, 10:50 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
Comparing Cowen to Siemens....HAHAHAHA...are you sure you want to talk about logic??

Are you related to Greg Sherman by any chance?
No I was not comparing Siemens to Cowen at all.

You said that being a shutdown defender in the WHL doesn't translate into the NHL. You said nothing of Siemens or Cowen, but whole shutdown defensemen category. Also Shutdown defensemen normally are not good offensively, but doesn't mean they are busts, if you didn't know.

Ant's logic > Your posts.

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02-12-2013, 10:50 PM
  #610
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Forsberg would be by far our best prospect in the system followed closely by Ty Rattie.

Who do you see in the farm who can come up and make an impact? No-one.

Sherman has left this roster depleted with horrible trades and has no-one in the farm ready to make an impact.

Him and Sacco are the worst GM/Coach combo in the league.
You sir, are correct. At least I believe you are. There are a lot of really good people in here, but there is a bit of denial going on, for a lot of fans have a deep passion for their team. I, too, am guilty of said denial at times, but I believe I've finally been broken, likely before the masses of my brethren.

Again, you are correct. IMO. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

The EJ trade is likely going to look very bad in another year or two. Quincey (his stick penalties aside) would easily be the 2nd best defender on the Avs right now, and should not have been traded. Downie is a 3rd line guy, borderline 2nd line guy, and a solid player. But not worth a 2nd pairing defenseman, who EJ had chemistry with. Liles was given away to shed salary.

Aside from the McGinn trade (where Sherman made both the lineup and the prospect system better), there's really no way to support the fact that the Avs are better via their trades. They're not better offensively, defensively, in goal, in age, or in salary cap. They're just not. And while fans in denial try to again and again support the moves of the organization, this is going nowhere. The truth really sucks sometimes. And now, one of the (very few) promising young 21 year old players looks like he's out the door. The GM is somewhere between clueless and inert, and the rebuild likely has to begin again, at least in some form. NYIslanders/ColumbusJackets, we welcome you to Colorado.

As for Sacco, yes, he's a dunce. But the real issue with him - especially with a rebuilding team full of young players - is that precious few of them have shown long- or even medium-term improvement under his watch. I'm not talking about a dozen or two games. I mean real improvement over the course of a season or two. O'R improved, and I believe Wilson did a bit also. Other than them, what young players have gotten significantly better than they were after their first half season or full season under Sacco? EJ hasn't. Duchene hasn't (though his play through 9 games this season is encouraging). Jones hasn't. Stastny has clearly regressed. Galiardi didn't. Cumiskey didn't. Etc, etc.

And then, how many players have left Sacco and flourished? Just an awful thing to see. Sacco sucks, has always sucked, and didn't deserve the job in the first place.

Dark times, and lots of fans being very, very forgiving. Not a good combination, from my standpoint.






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02-12-2013, 10:51 PM
  #611
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Greg Sherman's record is almost unimpeachable, the only really mistake he's made was not keeping Liles around to give us a PMD to be a stop gape until Elliott and Barrie were ready, but even that's not bad if you look at it as part of the Varly trade, which brought back the best goaler we've had since Roy, who's not just got vezina potential, but is right in line with the rest of the core age-wise, so that they can all peak together.

Between the draft and FA he's gone out and gotten us a young franchise goaler, a young top pairing dman who's got all of the talent in the world, a breathtaking young franchise Center, an awesome young captain pwf, a great two way center, some very talented defensive prospects and some good wingers depth. Only cornerpieces we're missing are an EJ partner and dynamite offensive winger, but if we say trade Radar for Kulikov in the summer and can sign Perry, boom all of the pieces are there for the team to grow into something special.

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02-12-2013, 10:53 PM
  #612
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Greg Sherman's record is almost unimpeachable, the only really mistake he's made was not keeping Liles around to give us a PMD to be a stop gape until Elliott and Barrie were ready, but even that's not bad if you look at it as part of the Varly trade, which brought back the best goaler we've had since Roy, who's not just got vezina potential, but is right in line with the rest of the core age-wise, so that they can all peak together.
You realize we could have just traded our 2nd (Mitchell Heard) instead of trading Liles to get Boston's 2nd. It can't even be justified in the context of the Varly trade.

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02-12-2013, 11:00 PM
  #613
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You realize we could have just traded our 2nd (Mitchell Heard) instead of trading Liles to get Boston's 2nd. It can't even be justified in the context of the Varly trade.
We could've, but that's not the trade that ended up getting made, and I'm fully content getting Varly for our first and Liles. I do think keeping Liles around could've helped and not doing so is Sherm the Werm's biggest mistake yet, but all in all that's not that bad, no GM's gunna be perfect, and if our worst mistake was giving up an expensive, defensively weak PMD who can't shoot, that's pretty damn good.

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02-12-2013, 11:00 PM
  #614
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Wow. What a well informed post. Are you writing this from prison with 15 minute access to highlights every other week?

Quincey over Downie...LOL!!!! Pretty much every red wing fan BEGS to differ. I think they'd take Downie even with him being out for the year.
Who cares what the majority of Wings fans in this forum say?

Quincey is getting (at worst) 2nd pairing minutes on a team in playoff position. If he were put on the Avs right now, he'd be EJ's partner in about....oh....4 seconds.

He's far better than any non-EJ defenseman we have right now.

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02-12-2013, 11:03 PM
  #615
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Who cares what the majority of Wings fans in this forum say?

Quincey is getting (at worst) 2nd pairing minutes on a team in playoff position. If he were put on the Avs right now, he'd be EJ's partner in about....oh....4 seconds.

He's far better than any non-EJ defenseman we have right now.
It's really hard to say one option is far better than another option when both are worse than being castrated by a meat tenderizer. The level of suck is just so great with both Quincey and our non-EJ dmen, that any relative advantages are meaningless cause you're still left with a Dman that sucks, can't defend, takes dumb penalties and is mediocre at best with the puck.

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02-12-2013, 11:14 PM
  #616
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It's really hard to say one option is far better than another option when both are worse than being castrated by a meat tenderizer. The level of suck is just so great with both Quincey and our non-EJ dmen, that any relative advantages are meaningless cause you're still left with a Dman that sucks, can't defend, takes dumb penalties and is mediocre at best with the puck.
Blah blah blah. Spin it any way you want but Quincey would be our 2nd best Dman right now.

As for Sherman...lets re-visit the Johnson trade when Shattenkirk is a point per game D-man (as he is now), Stewart is playing good physical hockey and Rattie is a 35 goal scorer. All for a decent defenseman who has 1 point in 11 games.

As for Varly, he has been less than stellar and is far from a Vezina candidate as you proclaim.

Craig Anderson 6-2-2, .950 SV% with a 1.49 GAA. He is the best goalie in the league. I like Varly but the fact of the matter is that we would be a better team if we just kept Anderson and our picks.

Anderson, Forsberg and a 2013 2nd is better than Varly

and Shattenkirk, Stewart and Rattie is better than EJ and Siemens

A legit top 4 Dman is better than a 3rd line instigator in Downie.

Giving Liles away for nothing. Giving Anderson away for nothing. Brilliant.

Any way you spin it or whatever you are trying to tell yourself to make the pain easier to handle, Sherman's moves have not made this team better. If anything, they have set us back.

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02-12-2013, 11:14 PM
  #617
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Quincey sucks

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02-12-2013, 11:17 PM
  #618
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Quincey sucks
He is better than Zanon, O'Brien, O'Bryne, Hedja, Wilson, Hunwick and all of the other trash we are forced to play on D.

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02-12-2013, 11:18 PM
  #619
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He is better than Zanon, O'Brien, O'Bryne, Hedja, Wilson, Hunwick and all of the other trash we are forced to play on D.
He should have kept Liles.

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02-12-2013, 11:19 PM
  #620
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The EJ trade is likely going to look very bad in another year or two. But not worth a 2nd pairing defenseman, who EJ had chemistry with. Liles was given away to shed salary.
How so? It's like people think Rattie is a guarantee to be a superstar, and Siemens is guaranteed to bust. Do people forget that the entire last season Blues fans would be fine trading Stewart, and don't see him in their long term plans?

Plus, people act like we traded the better prospect in Rattie for a worse prospect in Siemens. Sherman moved up what, 22 spots in the draft? Blame the scouting staff for picking Siemens then.

Baertschi, Johnson, McClement for Stewart, Shattenkirk, Rattie look better?

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02-12-2013, 11:20 PM
  #621
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Shattenkirk talked about how much he learned from Liles when he came up with us.

Even more than how bad our D is now they should have kept him to mentor Elliott/Barrie.

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02-12-2013, 11:28 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by Heebs21 View Post
He is better than Zanon, O'Brien, O'Bryne, Hedja, Wilson, Hunwick and all of the other trash we are forced to play on D.
So you're agreeing with his point that Quincey sucks? Cause those guys suck really hard, if Quincey doesn't suck as hard as them that doesn't mean he doesn't suck.

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Shattenkirk talked about how much he learned from Liles when he came up with us.

Even more than how bad our D is now they should have kept him to mentor Elliott/Barrie.
I would agree with this. It would've been nice to keep Liles and he was the only move I honestly didn't like when it happened, but given it helped us bring in Varly I can live with it, especially if that's the worst move our GM has made.

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02-12-2013, 11:33 PM
  #623
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Can't believe so many people doesn't realize that if you want something good (Downie) you need to give up something good (Quincey).

It's clear that Sherman was trying to move every player he knew he wasn't going to re-sign due to there salary demands. Winnik is a perfect example. Quincey another. Galiardi for McGinn as an RFA for RFA. Same with Quincey for Downie.

And we heard rumours that Jay Mac was in play at the deadline as well, Sherm probably knew that he wanted out and was most likely not going to sign for us again.

And hell Craig Anderson, it's not like he was great when Sherm gave him up, he was a pending UFA who had a crap year.

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02-12-2013, 11:44 PM
  #624
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So you're agreeing with his point that Quincey sucks? Cause those guys suck really hard, if Quincey doesn't suck as hard as them that doesn't mean he doesn't suck.



I would agree with this. It would've been nice to keep Liles and he was the only move I honestly didn't like when it happened, but given it helped us bring in Varly I can live with it, especially if that's the worst move our GM has made.
Value wise it wasn't horrid. Team wise it was an atrocious trade.

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02-12-2013, 11:49 PM
  #625
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Can't believe so many people doesn't realize that if you want something good (Downie) you need to give up something good (Quincey).
Quincey's not good. Downie is. Sherman won the trade; both Red Wings and Bolts fans wanted/want Downie from that trio of assets. The fact that he's injured shouldn't make us go crazy here. Quincey is bad and was going to be the second highest paid player on the team with David Jones if he had to stay.

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