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All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 2.0

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Old
02-12-2013, 09:58 PM
  #776
JohnLennon
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Boston drafted 5th overall after they traded veteran Joe Thornton, and then used the savings to sign Zdeno Chara.

Great tanking+rebuilding.
That wasn't "great tanking and rebuilding," that was just a bad trade. The Bruins have never entered a rebuild.

Not sure why everyone have different understandings of the word "Rebuild" around here.

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02-12-2013, 10:00 PM
  #777
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That wasn't "great tanking and rebuilding," that was just a bad trade. The Bruins have never entered a rebuild.

Not sure why everyone have different understandings of the word "Rebuild" around here.
No one has EVER tanked in the entire league because such things are illegal.

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02-12-2013, 10:02 PM
  #778
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If we want near-future UFAs like Perry, Ryan, Getzlaf, Malkin, Vanek, Semin, etc. we will need to do what Boston did when they signed Chara:

They cleared cap space by offloading veterans like Joe Thornton, and then offered the most money to Chara.
Bongo Boy... yeah, that's what the Habs need.

Clear that cap space, baby!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3_0ukjimpw

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Old
02-12-2013, 10:04 PM
  #779
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That wasn't "great tanking and rebuilding," that was just a bad trade. The Bruins have never entered a rebuild.

Not sure why everyone have different understandings of the word "Rebuild" around here.
You actually think that Boston traded away veteran Joe Thornton because they wanted Marco Sturm?

I think they traded him because they wanted to move in new directions, aka rebuild.

They went from being a great regular season team to being a lotery team, whuch everyone knew would happen including boston management.

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02-12-2013, 10:10 PM
  #780
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You actually think that Boston traded away veteran Joe Thornton because they wanted Marco Sturm?

I think they traded him because they wanted to move in new directions, aka rebuild.
was around 25 at the time of the trade, was already a PPG player... Bruins got less than we got for Cammy. Not even a 3rd round pick, not even a sucky prospect, niet...

they gave away Thornton for free. and there's people like you here whining we didnt get anything for Souray - now saying trading JT for scraps was a good move... that's a joke right ?

trading a young player for older ones is the complete opposite of a rebuild, come on man, take a few sec to think before posting...

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02-12-2013, 10:16 PM
  #781
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Admirable. You are extremely systematic, and act to optimize your comfort in circumstances that provide a wider variation in comfort than most people realize.

Witness those in middle of the center row of seats during such flights. These are people who take no action to control their circumstances. I pity them. What happens in the rest of their lives, I am afraid to imagine.

I first request emergency exit seats, due to my 'bad back', long legs and possible psychotic loss of temper during long flights. This works well quite often.

If this fails, I go for window on the 747 last 3 rows, which only have 2 seats, with the request to leave the neighboring seat open as long as possible. They generally fill the back last.

I will though adapt to last minute circumstances and check all options. If I cajole the check in agent, they will tell me if there are empty middle rows. If this is the case, I will request an aisle seat on an empty middle row and sometimes end up with 4 seats. This is rare, but it can occur.

As for sitting at the back, you also have much less chance of being engulfed in agonizing flames from the 300 pounds of kerosene remaining in and jetting from the wings during impact and ignition, or being crushed by 200 people, seats and toilets/bulkheads behind you moving at 200 miles per hour when the plane smashes into the tarmac with no wheels and loses speed too fast for anyone/anything to resist the forces applied.

The tail also breaks off quite often in such circumstances, and if your belt is tight enough, and mine always is on landing, you can watch the rest of the exploding fiery craft hurtle away from you down the runway, while you sit in the broken off fire free tail end, already slowing safely to a halt, and conveniently near the back exit.

Then there is being liquified in the first ten rows as the plane nosedives. This is grim social justice for those in business and first, the 1% getting theirs, although of course I accept the risk of being liquified as a trade off for massive additional comfort when flying business. At least I will be liquified while drinking a good glass of Cabernet.

I also board very last of course, to minimize my on craft time, and also to give those unfortunates sitting over the fiery death wings time to stow their 5 bags of duty free shopping, goats, and live chickens in the overhead bins.

I was not aware of the optimal seat architecture on the 380, as I have only flown it once, Korea-HK. I will watch for this, thanks for the tip.
The only antidote for your fatalism is staying home.

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Old
02-12-2013, 10:47 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You actually think that Boston traded away veteran Joe Thornton because they wanted Marco Sturm?

I think they traded him because they wanted to move in new directions, aka rebuild.

They went from being a great regular season team to being a lotery team, whuch everyone knew would happen including boston management.
Today I learnt being 26 means you're a veteran. San Jose sent forwards Marco Sturm and Wayne Primeau and defenseman Brad Stuart to the Bruins for Thornton... there were no picks. They traded him for a shake-up because they were last place, not because they wanted to rebuild their team. And it was a terrible trade either way.

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Old
02-12-2013, 10:56 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
was around 25 at the time of the trade, was already a PPG player... Bruins got less than we got for Cammy. Not even a 3rd round pick, not even a sucky prospect, niet...

they gave away Thornton for free. and there's people like you here whining we didnt get anything for Souray - now saying trading JT for scraps was a good move... that's a joke right ?

trading a young player for older ones is the complete opposite of a rebuild, come on man, take a few sec to think before posting...
this post is a good example of the problem with self-serving grossly exaggerated revisionist history...

while Boston undoubtably "lost" the Thornton trade, to say they got "not even a 3rd round pick/sucky prospect, niet..." is ridiculous.

B.Stuart was a top3 pick in 1998, and coming off of his most productive season as a pro (with dmen normally taking a few years to establish themselves, especially back then, he was still a player with very large positive upside).
Sturm had been a first round pick (21st), drafted one year prior to THornton, and had established himself as a pretty quality top-6 player (3 straight 20+ goal seasons, by 25 yrs old, in the dead puck era).

A 40pt, big physical dman, good enough to represent Canada internationally, and a top-6 winger (who was much more productive/consistent, all things considered, than Bourque) is far from "niet", and certainly not "scraps".

Comparing the Thornton trade to the Cammy trade, and attempting to argue that we got anywhere close to what the B's got, is beyond absurd.

ironic that you finish with asking the poster to "take a sec to think before posting"... this after pointing out that trading a young player for older ones is the complete opposite of a rebuild, following a post focused on the Thornton trade...

guess you didn't take a "sec" to realize that Stuart is YOUNGER than Thornton, or that Sturm was less than a year older.


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Old
02-12-2013, 11:13 PM
  #784
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Well, with things being the way they are, making the playoffs should always be first objective.

No point trying to run if you can't walk.
It's ironic that you say that. No point in making the playoffs if you can't compete.

For a long and sustainable run in the playoffs where we actually contend for the Cup, we need to improve our prospect depth. We need a few mediocre years to do that. Look at Galchenyuk. One more player of his calibre and it makes a huge difference. You just went from Desharnais and Gionta to Galchenyuk and, for example, Drouin in your top 6. That's a major difference.

You'll all cry now but you'll be screaming like a little girl in a few years if we do lose now. Book it.

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:13 PM
  #785
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enjoy the losses.
Enjoy being a Leafs fan.

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:20 PM
  #786
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Look at Galchenyuk. One more player of his calibre and it makes a huge difference.
Do not underestimate Collberg.

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:24 PM
  #787
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Do not underestimate Collberg.
I'm not. I love that kid. A bonafide top 5 player this year would still be huge for us.

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:27 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
It's ironic that you say that. No point in making the playoffs if you can't compete.

For a long and sustainable run in the playoffs where we actually contend for the Cup, we need to improve our prospect depth. We need a few mediocre years to do that. Look at Galchenyuk. One more player of his calibre and it makes a huge difference. You just went from Desharnais and Gionta to Galchenyuk and, for example, Drouin in your top 6. That's a major difference.

You'll all cry now but you'll be screaming like a little girl in a few years if we do lose now. Book it.
I sortof agree with you, in that we shouldn't PATCH our lineup.

But every team should first aim for the playoffs, then the 2nd round... Probably more a philosophy thing than an asset management technique.

And if you fail at making playoffs, well, enjoy the higher draft pick.

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:30 PM
  #789
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I'm not. I love that kid. A bonafide top 5 player this year would still be huge for us.
Of course it would, and much like Collberg and Subban I think Timmins could find it in the second round.

This is going to be a much more spread out draft.

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02-12-2013, 11:32 PM
  #790
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I'm not. I love that kid. A bonafide top 5 player this year would still be huge for us.
Mr. Molson won't accept not being part of the Series.

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02-12-2013, 11:34 PM
  #791
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Mr. Molson won't accept not being part of the Series.
Well, he if doesn't accept this for two years in a row (leading to the firing of a GM), well...

I'll cheer for another team, because I'd really feel like an idiot to give time and (indirect) money to an even bigger idiot.

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Old
02-12-2013, 11:44 PM
  #792
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Mr. Molson won't accept not being part of the Series.
Yeah, just like Leafs ownership won't accept missing the playoffs.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:05 AM
  #793
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Yeah, just like Leafs ownership won't accept missing the playoffs.


I think Leaf ownership FINALLY gets it.

It took the humiliation of the Kessel rip-off to make it happen but I think they finally understand that they should just rebuild.

Then again, Reily could be traded tomorrow. You never know with those guys...

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:06 AM
  #794
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Do not underestimate Collberg.
Come on seriously? I think Colberg is a great prospect, but I won't base my team around him. So far he's proven nothing, if he reaches his potential and becomes a top six forward great, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:30 AM
  #795
ECWHSWI
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Enjoy being a Leafs fan.
wrong.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:32 AM
  #796
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Well, he if doesn't accept this for two years in a row (leading to the firing of a GM), well...

I'll cheer for another team, because I'd really feel like an idiot to give time and (indirect) money to an even bigger idiot.
so, you'd rather spend your time and money watching your team lose ?

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:33 AM
  #797
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I'm not. I love that kid. A bonafide top 5 player this year would still be huge for us.
enjoy the losses.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:49 AM
  #798
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Yeah, just like Leafs ownership won't accept missing the playoffs.
Bruins try to make the P.O. every year, guess they're a failure

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Old
02-13-2013, 05:21 AM
  #799
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
was around 25 at the time of the trade, was already a PPG player... Bruins got less than we got for Cammy. Not even a 3rd round pick, not even a sucky prospect, niet...

they gave away Thornton for free. and there's people like you here whining we didnt get anything for Souray - now saying trading JT for scraps was a good move... that's a joke right ?

trading a young player for older ones is the complete opposite of a rebuild, come on man, take a few sec to think before posting...
When you sell a veteran, there are three chances to win:
1) You get to spend the cap space on somebody else.
2) You get whatever you get in return for the trade.
3) Your regular season performance drops, and your 1st rounder improves.

Habs spent the money saved on Sourray by getting Hamrlik, whereas Boston spent the money saved on Thornton by getting Chara. Both teams got an upgrade.

However, Boston also got to move up in the draft since losing Thornton dampened their regular season performance, and they took a legitimate risk that 3 roster players would improve their team. They took their full 3 chances to win, Montreal only took one.

If Montreal had sold Sourray in 2006, we would have replaced him with Hamrlik in any case. However, we would have gotten something in return (good odds), and we would have drafted McDonagh at 7th overall rather than 12th overall, lol... well that would have made no difference - but the principle remains.

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02-13-2013, 05:22 AM
  #800
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Of course it would, and much like Collberg and Subban I think Timmins could find it in the second round.

This is going to be a much more spread out draft.
If you think Timmins could find a Subban-type player in the 2nd round then that is all the more reason to increase our haul from our current three 2nd rounders, to maybe five or six.

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