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Brian Burke Thread - March 2013

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02-12-2013, 10:11 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Burke did positives. There's no doubt.

But he was entirely unsuccessful with his NHL team.

He said so himself...he didn't win enough games.
No argument here. Absolutely 100% agree he failed to do what he came to Toronto to do. The main difference is that unlike previous regimes, he did not leave the cupboards empty.

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02-12-2013, 10:13 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
No argument here. Absolutely 100% agree he failed to do what he came to Toronto to do. The main difference is that unlike previous regimes, he did not leave the cupboards empty.
I agree with you to a point there. But we could have been absolutely stacked if we just kept the first rounders since we are a ways from contending anyway.

I expect most knowledgable Leafs fans know there were different pressures faced by Quinn, JFJ, Fletcher, and Burke.

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02-12-2013, 10:16 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Way too late. Mostly all of realistic Leafs fans knew Ron Wilson was a terrible coach but Burke was in no hurry. In fact, he called him his first star of the team, gave him an extension, told everyone hes going nowhere, and then fired him.

Game over Burke. Your team and accelerated rebuild sucked.
This is still his team, and his rebuild.

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02-12-2013, 10:19 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I agree with you to a point there. But we could have been absolutely stacked if we just kept the first rounders since we are a ways from contending anyway.

I expect most knowledgable Leafs fans know there were different pressures faced by Quinn, JFJ, Fletcher, and Burke.
Possibly. Who knows? Many teams in the NHL have been terrible for a while. They've drafted many high picks and still stink. I would hope our drafting is better than that, but a look at our first round drafting history would suggest otherwise.

And yes, Burke had much more leeway than any of the others if you ask me.

You and many others may not agree with me, but I believe that after that first reason, Burke was truly in rebuild mode.

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02-12-2013, 10:19 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
This is still his team, and his rebuild.
And it has been the running joke of the NHL for the past three years.

A handful of wins right now doesn't change that.

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02-12-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
This is still his team, and his rebuild.
Yup. He put the players together, coach didn't know how to utilize them effectively.

Ron Wilson and Brian Burke run two different styles. Brian Burke and Carlyle run the same style.

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02-12-2013, 10:20 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
This is still his team, and his rebuild.
His and Nonis, yes. But many simply cannot give any credit. Gotta be all or nothing right?

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02-12-2013, 10:23 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
His and Nonis, yes. But many simply cannot give any credit. Gotta be all or nothing right?
That's for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
And it has been the running joke of the NHL for the past three years.

A handful of wins right now doesn't change that.
A Stanley Cup wouldn't change your feelings towards the man.

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02-12-2013, 10:23 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
And it has been the running joke of the NHL for the past three years.

A handful of wins right now doesn't change that.
So you agree this is his team win or lose right?

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02-12-2013, 10:25 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Possibly. Who knows? Many teams in the NHL have been terrible for a while. They've drafted many high picks and still stink. I would hope our drafting is better than that, but a look at our first round drafting history would suggest otherwise.

And yes, Burke had much more leeway than any of the others if you ask me.

You and many others may not agree with me, but I believe that after that first reason, Burke was truly in rebuild mode.
There's no rebuilding when you trade two first round picks away.

Because we were supposed to be in rebuild mode which in other words means your team is dreadful and needs to ride the back of the bus for a few years to come back very strong.

Trading for one player (Phil Kessel) doesn't turn your team from dreadful (rebuild) to good (non-rebuild).

He did good things...I believe he is a competent person...and maybe he only took the job in the first place because he ACTUALLY THOUGHT he could give MLSE a playoff team. No one can know.

All we have is the past three years and they were miserable for Leafs fans especially after all the disappointment we've suffered already.

The only thing we can do is to wait on guys like Morgan Rielly, Phil Kessel, Jake Gardiner, Dion Phaneuf, Nazem Kadri, and JVR to see if they are what we hope they can be.

We'll judge Burke on those players and the future they give the Leafs, if you ask me.

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02-12-2013, 10:30 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
There's no rebuilding when you trade two first round picks away.

Because we were supposed to be in rebuild mode which in other words means your team is dreadful and needs to ride the back of the bus for a few years to come back very strong.

Trading for one player (Phil Kessel) doesn't turn your team from dreadful (rebuild) to good (non-rebuild).

He did good things...I believe he is a competent person...and maybe he only took the job in the first place because he ACTUALLY THOUGHT he could give MLSE a playoff team. No one can know.

All we have is the past three years and they were miserable for Leafs fans especially after all the disappointment we've suffered already.

The only thing we can do is to wait on guys like Morgan Rielly, Phil Kessel, Jake Gardiner, Dion Phaneuf, Nazem Kadri, and JVR to see if they are what we hope they can be.

We'll judge Burke on those players and the future they give the Leafs, if you ask me.
No, but when you start amassing picks after that one trade, sending veterans the other way in return, the inclination is definitely toward rebuild.

Getting hung up on one trade is blinding you to the rest of his work.

And I agree, we'll have to wait a while longer to see how it all unfolds.

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02-12-2013, 10:41 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
It's actually quite simple, most people who acknowledge the good Burke did do so starting with 'so and so did this stat wise' an provide facts to support their argument.

Many who did not like Burke start their analysis with comments like 'blowhard', 'big mouth', 'ego' as if any of this had anything to do with the team he assembled.
All nonsense.

Burke is a failure based on the following facts.
7th last, 2nd last 9th last, and 5th last.

After an almost cartoony level of failure, his prospects were rated lower by professional NHL prospects than when he arrived.

We learned last year that a hot start doesn't amount to much over the whole season. The leafs are curtently a whopping 3 points away fom 11th place in the east, or 1st place. Kind o hard to make an assessment at this point.

Burke supporters simply avoid the facts above, and use spin and lies to make him appear better than the disaster he was.

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02-12-2013, 10:43 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
All nonsense.

Burke is a failure based on the following facts.
7th last, 2nd last 9th last, and 5th last.

After an almost cartoony level of failure, his prospects were rated lower by professional NHL prospects than when he arrived.

We learned last year that a hot start doesn't amount to much over the whole season. The leafs are curtently a whopping 3 points away fom 11th place in the east, or 1st place. Kind o hard to make an assessment at this point.

Burke supporters simply avoid the facts above, and use spin and lies to make him appear better than the disaster he was.
Never seen anybody dispute any of those facts, ever.

Those facts do not stop me from also admitting that Tyler Bozak is a very competent NHL player (not outright released as some who will remain nameless may have claimed), that Kessel is in fact a top line premier winger, that Dion Phaneuf is a top line D, that Nazem Kadri may in fact not be a bust.... See where I'm going here?

Some people can see both the good and the bad, and that's perfectly acceptable.

By the way, the only assessment I've made thus far is that this team is still largely Burke's, good or bad.


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02-12-2013, 10:50 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
No, but when you start amassing picks after that one trade, sending veterans the other way in return, the inclination is definitely toward rebuild.

Getting hung up on one trade is blinding you to the rest of his work.

And I agree, we'll have to wait a while longer to see how it all unfolds.
Alright so we acknowledge that there was a gross misevaluation and costly mistake at the very start and player procurement improved while our coach basically imploded our team and the GM did nothing to change it.

Thats fine with me.

Like I said, there were trades and draft picks that I felt Burke did great with but there were a lot of mistakes made along the way, our NHL team was terrible, our coach was worse, and this was coming from a guy that teased the whole city each year saying we are making the playoffs and tirelessly trying to pursue it.

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02-12-2013, 10:53 PM
  #240
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Alright so we acknowledge that there was a gross misevaluation and costly mistake at the very start and player procurement improved while our coach basically imploded our team and the GM did nothing to change it.

Thats fine with me.

Like I said, there were trades and draft picks that I felt Burke did great with but there were a lot of mistakes made along the way, our NHL team was terrible, our coach was worse, and this was coming from a guy that teased the whole city each year saying we are making the playoffs and tirelessly trying to pursue it.
You will get no argument from me on most of the above.

I don't generally agree with the last statement. I think if you asked Nonis right now, he would tell you the goal is playoff hockey.

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02-12-2013, 10:56 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
You will get no argument from me on most of the above.

I don't generally agree with the last statement. I think if you asked Nonis right now, he would tell you the goal is playoff hockey.
There were some good pieces left behind by Burke. Theres simply no refuting it.

I enjoy watching Rielly play for Moose Jaw.

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02-12-2013, 10:58 PM
  #242
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There were some good pieces left behind by Burke. Theres simply no refuting it.

I enjoy watching Rielly play for Moose Jaw.
Yup, and although he'll never be a number 1 guy, Stuart Percy has hockey smarts like you wouldn't believe. Could be a big part of this team in the future.

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02-12-2013, 11:24 PM
  #243
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Burke built this team from the ground up. When he came the Leafs had Poni - Stajen - Pov as the top line, Kubina and Kaberle as the top paring and Toskala in net!!!!!!

Burke has built a good young hockey club and restocked our prospect pool in a very reasonable time table (3.5 years) considering what he had to begin with.

Traded for:
Kessel
JVR
Phanuef
Lupul
Gardiner
Franson
Liles
Brown
Colborne
Ashton

Drafted:
Kadri
Rielly
Biggs
Percy
Blacker
Finn
McKegg
D'Amigo
Leivo

Sgned:
Bozak
MacA
McClement
Fraser
Scrivens
Kostka
Orr
Rynnas

Re-Signed:
Grabovski
Kulemin
Reimer
Frattin
Gunnasson
Komarov
Holzer

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02-12-2013, 11:40 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Rockinz View Post
Burke built this team from the ground up. When he came the Leafs had Poni - Stajen - Pov as the top line, Kubina and Kaberle as thr top paring and Toskala in net!!!!!!

Burke has built a good young hockey club and restocked our prospect pool in a very reasonable time table considering what he had to begin with.

Traded for:
Kessel (Two first round picks , 2nd ,9th overall, 32nd overall: Tyler Seguin, Dougie Hamilton, Jared Knight)
JVR (Luke Schenn (5th overall))
Phanuef (Ian White, Stajan, Hagman, Mayers)
Lupul (Beachemin)
Gardiner (Beachemin)
Franson (Cap dump)
Liles (2nd round)
Brown (5th round)
Colborne (Kaberle)
Ashton (Aulie (White, Stajan, Hagman, Mayers))

Drafted:
Kadri (7th overall)
Rielly (5th overall)
Biggs (22nd overall: 30th (Kaberle) and 39th overall)
Percy (25th overall (Kris Versteeg (Paradis(Tlusty) and Stalberg (6th round))))
Blacker (2nd round (Dominic Moore))
Finn (2nd round)
McKegg (3rd round)
D'Amigo (6th round)
Leivo (3rd round)

Sgned:
Bozak (UFA)
MacA (UFA)
McClement (UFA)
Fraser (not a signing, traded for Dale Mitchell (3rd round))
Scrivens (UFA)
Kostka (UFA)
Orr (UFA)
Rynnas (UFA)
Owuya (UFA)

Re-Signed:
Grabovski (Held over from Cliff Fletcher)
Kulemin (Held over from JFJ)
Reimer (Held over from JFJ)
Frattin (Held over from JFJ)
Gunnasson (Held over from JFJ)
Komarov (Held over from JFJ)
Holzer (Held over from JFJ)
Updated with more information.

Notice the cost associated with many of these players.

Easy to just post a lineup of players. But takes a bit more effort to actually evaluate how much each player cost the team and who was inherited from previous regimes.

Notice how mistakes like Komisarek are missing from this sort of "analysis".

I dont see Brad Ross or Percy or Olden or any other bad draft choices.

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02-12-2013, 11:44 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Updated with more information.

Notice the cost associated with many of these players.

Easy to just post a lineup of players. But takes a bit more effort to actually evaluate how much each player cost the team and who was inherited from previous regimes.
With the exception of Seguin and possibly Hamilton, no real big losses up there though.

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02-12-2013, 11:47 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
With the exception of Seguin and possibly Hamilton, no real big losses up there though.
Lots of losses. Easily.

All of those free agents signed for ridiculous money only to play like AHL players.

Tlusty for Paradis. Olden for a 3rd. Ross for Hayes. Percy for Versteeg. Antropov for Ryan.

What it resulted in is a terrible NHL team the past three years.

Each of these kinds of trades adds up for a "rebuilding" team that should be rebuilding.

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02-12-2013, 11:48 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Updated with more information.

Notice the cost associated with many of these players.

Easy to just post a lineup of players. But takes a bit more effort to actually evaluate how much each player cost the team and who was inherited from previous regimes.

Notice how mistakes like Komisarek are missing from this sort of "analysis".

I dont see Brad Ross or Percy or Olden or any other bad draft choices.
at the end of the day the franchise he built from nothing is doing well both at the NHL and AHL level in 3.5 years.

Case closed! Burke build a great franchise in less than 5 years!

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02-12-2013, 11:50 PM
  #248
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Have you guys seen this BURKE FIRING PARODY? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u28I6faWuU THOUGHTS?!

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02-12-2013, 11:52 PM
  #249
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at the end of the day the team he built from nothing is doing well both at the NHL and AHL level in 3.5 years.

Case closed Burke build a great franchise!
A few games means nothing compared to the past 3.5 years of utter failure.

Pretty funny when 13 games means more than over 250.

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02-12-2013, 11:56 PM
  #250
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A few games means nothing compared to the past 3.5 years of utter failure.

Pretty funny when 13 games means more than over 250.
Wrong and even more wrong.

Zero hockey knowledge must be embarrassing

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