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This is a Bad Hockey Team: Part 2

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02-13-2013, 12:13 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Won three in a row, six of their last eight and they're mediocre - fire torts. Never gets old.
offdacrossbar is telling 100% truth. This playing to defend lead crap after the 1st was disgraceful. We have an abortion of a breakout from our own zone and it's been a problem since game 1 of the playoffs last year. I've noticed, all players are guilty of being too cute in our own end (passes back while other team is forechecking) and generally making stupid reads to try and attempt to get the puck out. This is 100% coaching and if isn't addressed, we'll be mince meat against a forechecking team like the Devils, Penguins and Bruins.

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02-13-2013, 01:12 AM
  #527
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This thread is hilarious.

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02-13-2013, 01:21 AM
  #528
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Funny how the guy that says we can't get out of the zone is calling for Brian Boyle because apparently it ws Miller's fault we blew the lead.

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02-13-2013, 01:24 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Torts, you really need to root for a different team. Unless it's a post about the great Brian Boyle everything you post is how this team is terrible. Seriously, you are the worst fan I've ever seen and I've posted some of the most negative **** too.
Why should I root for another team? I am just voicing my opinions. You couldn't be anymore wrong about my negativity. I like a lot of players on this team, but I won't pretend to be a sheep and say everything is picture perfect. There are some serious flaws on this team right now and I have tremendously high expectations on this club. It's cup or bust for me now, this is where my negativity probably sterns from. I think we'll make the playoffs with ease (knockonwood), however, I don't see us as true contenders yet unless we fill in with some depth/system issues.

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02-13-2013, 01:30 AM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Why should I root for another team? I am just voicing my opinions. You couldn't be anymore wrong about my negativity. I like a lot of players on this team, but I won't pretend to be a sheep and say everything is picture perfect. There are some serious flaws on this team right now and I have tremendously high expectations on this club. It's cup or bust for me now, this is where my negativity probably sterns from. I think we'll make the playoffs with ease (knockonwood), however, I don't see us as true contenders yet unless we fill in with some depth/system issues.
You're the one that wants Brian Boyle on the 3rd line. You complain that we can't get out of our zone yet you want Boyle on the 3rd line and hence 2 4th lines. Our 3rd line is a bit of a question mark because we have 2 rookies on it, but what do you propose to happen. We have two of our best prospects playing with a guy that might well well have scored 30 goals in back to back years if not for injuries. This is the most "talented" 3rd line we've had since I've been following the Rangers.

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02-13-2013, 01:33 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Funny how the guy that says we can't get out of the zone is calling for Brian Boyle because apparently it ws Miller's fault we blew the lead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You're the one that wants Brian Boyle on the 3rd line. You complain that we can't get out of our zone yet you want Boyle on the 3rd line and hence 2 4th lines. Our 3rd line is a bit of a question mark because we have 2 rookies on it, but what do you propose to happen. We have two of our best prospects playing with a guy that might well well have scored 30 goals in back to back years if not for injuries. This is the most "talented" 3rd line we've had since I've been following the Rangers.
Boyle's average offensive zone starts

Boyle's average offensive zone finishes

+differential of 21.1.

Very few players are better than that.

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02-13-2013, 01:35 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Boyle's average offensive zone starts

Boyle's average offensive zone finishes

+differential of 21.1.

Very few players are better than that.
You can look at all of the stats that you want, I know what I see.

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02-13-2013, 01:37 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You can look at all of the stats that you want, I know what I see.
but those stats show Boyle gets the puck out of the zone at an efficient rate.

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02-13-2013, 01:40 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Why should I root for another team? I am just voicing my opinions. You couldn't be anymore wrong about my negativity. I like a lot of players on this team, but I won't pretend to be a sheep and say everything is picture perfect. There are some serious flaws on this team right now and I have tremendously high expectations on this club. It's cup or bust for me now, this is where my negativity probably sterns from. I think we'll make the playoffs with ease (knockonwood), however, I don't see us as true contenders yet unless we fill in with some depth/system issues.
This phrase get's thrown around. No offense, but it's utter ********.

Last years cup winners were an 8th seed. The presidents trophy winner was swept. The East Conference champs were 1 goal away from a first round exit. The Bruins were a 1st round exit.

Anything can happen in the playoffs. Especially with a team this good.

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02-13-2013, 09:52 AM
  #535
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What makes me nervous about this year's Rangers is the same as last year's Rangers - they never look convincing when they manage to win. They don't dominate any aspect of play. Every time I sit down to watch this team, I know I'm in for one or two nail-biting periods watching them either play "hold a 1 goal lead" or try to catch up to a 2 goal defecit. I'm happy when they win, but I'd love to see them just blast a team now and then and look good doing it.

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02-13-2013, 10:02 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
You can look at all of the stats that you want, I know what I see.
You and a few others have made it abundantly clear you don't see reality. A reality enforced by those stats.

Good thing we didnt have Boyle in the lineup last night. The team wasnt hemmed in their own zone the entire 3rd period or anything like that.

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02-13-2013, 10:04 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Wamsutta View Post
What makes me nervous about this year's Rangers is the same as last year's Rangers - they never look convincing when they manage to win. They don't dominate any aspect of play. Every time I sit down to watch this team, I know I'm in for one or two nail-biting periods watching them either play "hold a 1 goal lead" or try to catch up to a 2 goal defecit. I'm happy when they win, but I'd love to see them just blast a team now and then and look good doing it.
Yea, thats called NHL hockey.

The same people that are *****ing about Boyle are the ones that have concocted this grand vision of some sort of perfect offensive-minded team that dominates the opposition every night. Its not really rooted in reality.

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02-13-2013, 10:11 AM
  #538
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We dominated both the Islanders and Lightning in the previous two games (like we should), played strongly against Boston (like we should) and Boston fought back to make it a close game because they are a good team (like they should).

Not the end of the world.

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02-13-2013, 11:12 AM
  #539
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Mark my words boys and girls... The Rangers will finish ahead of the Devils in the standings when all is said and done. In fact, I'll even go ahead and say that they'll win the division.

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02-13-2013, 01:16 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
offdacrossbar is telling 100% truth. This playing to defend lead crap after the 1st was disgraceful. We have an abortion of a breakout from our own zone and it's been a problem since game 1 of the playoffs last year. I've noticed, all players are guilty of being too cute in our own end (passes back while other team is forechecking) and generally making stupid reads to try and attempt to get the puck out. This is 100% coaching and if isn't addressed, we'll be mince meat against a forechecking team like the Devils, Penguins and Bruins.
The team almost lost to, arguably, the best team in the conference and it's proof that the coach isn't doing well enough. The level of entitlement some fans feel is absurd. You don't deserve a perfect team and you will never get one. There will always be problems. There will always be other teams that you fear. Winning is what matters. This team is winning. Torts is doing fine.

When there's nothing to complain about, people start complainaing about what might be. It's tiring.

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02-13-2013, 01:42 PM
  #541
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I'm not sure what all this talk is about playing to defend the lead. They got 2 of their goals in the final 2 minutes of the game...with their goalie pulled. How much more time did some of you think/expect us to be playing in their end? lol

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02-13-2013, 01:58 PM
  #542
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I'm not sure what all this talk is about playing to defend the lead. They got 2 of their goals in the final 2 minutes of the game...with their goalie pulled. How much more time did some of you think/expect us to be playing in their end? lol
I don't know what game you were watching, but all I saw towards the end was a lot of dumping, chasing and line changing. Getting pinned in our own zone those last few minutes was the coup de grace.

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02-13-2013, 02:07 PM
  #543
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I'm happy with how things have gone so far. The start of the season without any kind of meaningful training camp, meant the first games were going to be a crapshoot.

We've obviously improved since then and have improved quite rapidly despite our best player (Lundqvist) still working his way back into last seasons form.

Being demanding us to be world beaters will always be disappointed. We overachieved last year riding our goaltending, defense and we are still in the process of working in new players to give us a bit more speed and skill than the players they replaced on this years roster (Kreider, Miller, Powe).

I think instead of being overly critical I think it would be wise to exert a bit more patience before calling for heads. I remember these threads popping up last year and always being amused given our success (both regular season and playoffs) compared to so many previous Ranger teams. We've obviously been moving in the right direction, so let's just slowly back away from the ledge.

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02-13-2013, 02:17 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yea, thats called NHL hockey.

The same people that are *****ing about Boyle are the ones that have concocted this grand vision of some sort of perfect offensive-minded team that dominates the opposition every night. Its not really rooted in reality.
It's the era we are in for sure.

There are no offensive juggernauts anymore. There are very good offensive players, spread across the league. And any given game a team can break out for a lot of goals. But it's not consistent.

Goaltenders are "better" now then they've ever been.

It's a defense-first league.

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02-13-2013, 02:26 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yea, thats called NHL hockey.

The same people that are *****ing about Boyle are the ones that have concocted this grand vision of some sort of perfect offensive-minded team that dominates the opposition every night. Its not really rooted in reality.
Its not so much offense-minded team that people crave as a speed-minded team. People see the success a middling team like the Devils can have with a relentless forecheck and want to see the Rangers do it.

That's why average skaters like Boyle, Stepan and Richards "lumbering" around the ice (or even a fast skater like Gaborik not moving his legs or applying any pressure) send people in a tizzy.

I am not sure it is the new can't miss "recipe for success", but it has been effective. And it can be entertaining.

Some fans just want to see players flying around the ice, regardless of what they are doing.

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02-13-2013, 02:36 PM
  #546
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if the pp continues to sukarse, and it will cost us bigtime if it does, then its all on torts and sully. last year was last year. its over. done. if we miss the playoffs this year or are dispatched early, then its a failure. plain and simple. getting to the playoffs every year isnt the end goal. winning the cup is.

calling for their heads to roll is reasonable given their history of pp failures and the fact that this team, talent wise, has the horses to compete for the cup right now. so far, the pp has been abysmal. its showing no signs of anything positive. its hurting us.

if this team continues to be in the bottom 1/4 % wise on the pp, then we cannot compete as we are just not dynamic enough 5on5. and if that happens and we fail to win, the coaching staff must pay the price.

special teams is key. period.

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02-13-2013, 03:41 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
if the pp continues to sukarse, and it will cost us bigtime if it does, then its all on torts and sully. last year was last year. its over. done. if we miss the playoffs this year or are dispatched early, then its a failure. plain and simple. getting to the playoffs every year isnt the end goal. winning the cup is.

calling for their heads to roll is reasonable given their history of pp failures and the fact that this team, talent wise, has the horses to compete for the cup right now. so far, the pp has been abysmal. its showing no signs of anything positive. its hurting us.

if this team continues to be in the bottom 1/4 % wise on the pp, then we cannot compete as we are just not dynamic enough 5on5. and if that happens and we fail to win, the coaching staff must pay the price.

special teams is key. period.
If you run the team the way you are proposing then you won't be able to achieve ant sort of continuity and also risk a good chance of ending up with a worse coach if you dismiss someone with a strong track record. If we miss the playoffs I agree we should be critical of Torts, but it is also important to understand that hockey is sometimes an unpredictable game and only so much blame can be placed on a coach.

In regards to our powerplay, it does need to improve. However, Boston has also shown that you can win a cup despite having a horrid powerplay. I think it will improve once Nash gets used to his teammates and they get used to him. We also need to realize we don't have a powerplay qb who can shoot the puck

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02-13-2013, 03:45 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
but those stats show Boyle gets the puck out of the zone at an efficient rate.
True, thanks for the link. Boyle certainly deserves credit for his defensive work.

However, there is also a very significant difference between getting the puck out of the zone and breaking out, especially at the speed needed to create offensive zone. And that is something Boyle has unfortunately really struggled with for a rather long period of time, which is probably a large reason he is sitting in the press box.

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02-13-2013, 03:53 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
if the pp continues to sukarse, and it will cost us bigtime if it does, then its all on torts and sully. last year was last year. its over. done. if we miss the playoffs this year or are dispatched early, then its a failure. plain and simple. getting to the playoffs every year isnt the end goal. winning the cup is.

calling for their heads to roll is reasonable given their history of pp failures and the fact that this team, talent wise, has the horses to compete for the cup right now. so far, the pp has been abysmal. its showing no signs of anything positive. its hurting us.

if this team continues to be in the bottom 1/4 % wise on the pp, then we cannot compete as we are just not dynamic enough 5on5. and if that happens and we fail to win, the coaching staff must pay the price.

special teams is key. period.
Top 10 teams by PP%: STL, PIT, TB, WSH, NYI, CGY, ANA, EDM, SJ, MTL.
Top 10 teams by points: CHI, ANA, NJ, BOS, VAN, SJ, TOR, OTT, PIT, NSH.

Three teams are on both lists, Pens, Ducks and Sharks. I'd hold off on the "period." Wins and points are key, they always are and they always will be. The team could have a 0% PP for all I care as long as they win.

If this team misses the playoffs, yeah, then we can talk about firing. I don't know why we'd possibly pretend thats a relevant issue right now though, the team started terribly and has obviously started to turn it around. They currently have the best record in the division in the last ten games. If they're eliminated early, it'll depend on how early and how they're eliminated. If they lose to the Pens for example in a close series, I'm not sure firing torts would be wise. If they get blown out by anybody, especially by a fringe team, then there's a real chance he goes.

I'd also argue that the team can't compete with a weak PP. There's really no proof of that. The PP has been garbage so far and they're definitely competing just fine.

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02-13-2013, 04:01 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Wamsutta View Post
What makes me nervous about this year's Rangers is the same as last year's Rangers - they never look convincing when they manage to win. They don't dominate any aspect of play. Every time I sit down to watch this team, I know I'm in for one or two nail-biting periods watching them either play "hold a 1 goal lead" or try to catch up to a 2 goal defecit. I'm happy when they win, but I'd love to see them just blast a team now and then and look good doing it.
This is where I'm trying to get at. They win, but look like very mediocre at times doing so.

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