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Old
02-13-2013, 05:20 AM
  #501
ebis
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
Tickets

Slovan doesn't have a set price for tickets though. Tickets get auctioned, the cheapest I've ever managed to get was 25. And during the derby matches with Lev I've seen bids as high as 1000 for one ticket, though I don't know if anyone actually paid it.

The auction was a pretty good move by Slovan. Well, after polishing some technical difficulties.

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02-13-2013, 05:31 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
He means you don't know anything about the KHL to suggest to get rid of Amur. These guys sell out every game since the beginning of the KHL. Their fans fly to central Europe in droves, 12 time zones away, to watch their team play. Their organization, despite so many obstacles, is one of if not the most successful ones in the KHL. They are an anchor to a new market for the KHL and are in a region of Russia that is growing. Few teams are as important to the KHL as Amur. Why would you even say this ****?
for Namejs


I thank to VladNYC to sum it up. I wrote this milion-times here, pointless to repeat the same idea/vision every second day.

Far-East can become high-developed hub of Russia. Therefore you need Amur. KHL is not only about bussiness, to colect teams to make money. KHL is also about growing the game in Russia (mainly). And? Where is hockey under/not-developed in Russia? Far East. You need LA Kings to develop hockey in California, Dallas to develop Texas hockey, Amur to develop Far East hockey. Maybe we can find another reasons for Amur, but these are basic.

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Old
02-13-2013, 05:40 AM
  #503
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Old
02-13-2013, 06:04 AM
  #504
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hey, with the climate changes Khabarovsk may become the new Florida, lol

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02-13-2013, 06:48 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Namejs View Post
Pretty sure I know a lot more about the finances and the politics of the league than you do.

I have no idea about what market are you talking about exactly. Can you elaborate?

[Mod]
Pretty sure you will be banned from here before I have a chance to explain anything to you. Especially considering it has been discussed 20 times here and you are just trolling. We've talked about the eastern market in many threads now. The best part is your first sentence though, I clearly have the reputation here of not knowing about the finances and politics of the KHL LOL!

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02-13-2013, 07:12 AM
  #506
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Everyone please calm down, you can counter a point without attacking the poster.

This is the last warning.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:15 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Tatanik View Post
Not to sound disparaging but is there a link to this raw data?
All this data is from official sources - ticket resellers, KHL and teams websites. You're free to believe it or do the calculations yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebis View Post
Slovan doesn't have a set price for tickets though. Tickets get auctioned, the cheapest I've ever managed to get was 25. And during the derby matches with Lev I've seen bids as high as 1000 for one ticket, though I don't know if anyone actually paid it.

The auction was a pretty good move by Slovan. Well, after polishing some technical difficulties.
This data was collected at the start of the season. It's not so often that teams change their ticket practices during the season.

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:08 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
for Namejs


I thank to VladNYC to sum it up. I wrote this milion-times here, pointless to repeat the same idea/vision every second day.

Far-East can become high-developed hub of Russia. Therefore you need Amur. KHL is not only about bussiness, to colect teams to make money. KHL is also about growing the game in Russia (mainly). And? Where is hockey under/not-developed in Russia? Far East. You need LA Kings to develop hockey in California, Dallas to develop Texas hockey, Amur to develop Far East hockey. Maybe we can find another reasons for Amur, but these are basic.
If you look to the future, there is every basis to conclude that the Far East, specifically on the Pacific rim, will be a real growth area for the Russian economy. Vladivostok will be the host of the upcoming Asia-Pacific Economic Conference. The economic power of the Asia-Pacific region is now emerging as one of the World's real growth areas. I see no reason why Vladivostok, a city of more than 600,000, couldn't be a contender for a KHL franchise. The benefit would be that if a team is making the trip to Khabarovsk, it is not much further to go to Vladivostok. They could get in two games for not much more than the price of one. Kind of like Los Angeles and Anaheim in the NHL. I know Vladivostok has no particular hockey history, but it is my understanding that there has been some rink-building going on there. In a city of 600,000, it shouldn't be that difficult to get 8,000-9,000 spectators per game.

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:58 AM
  #509
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Agree with Vladivostok, IMO there should be KHL team in future, the same Sochi.

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:35 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
Nah, the one who's kidding is you, talking about all this stuff is irrelevant to KHL, which is a whole different beast altogether. No interest for sport, hockey? Maybe because there was not enough effort to interest them?
Well of course it has nothing to do with the KHL, but you're the one who brought up the idea of having a team in Serbia which is completely laughable. Even if there was a KHL team there, there would still be no interest from the fans (I am Serbian). Like I've said, all you need to do look at the most popular sports in the country and the attendances, and you'll get it.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:50 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
Tickets



Season tickets



Projected revenue.



And last but not least - average attendance.



So who's making things up?

P.S: Average salary in Khabarovsk - 38500 rubles. Average salary in Riga is about 27000 rubles or 470 LVL. So who's Namibia?
I have no idea what those tables mean. Please, provide your sources. Without sources those are a bunch of random, meaningless figures. And no images of Russian text, you can't auto-translate that.

My source for the ticket prices was the club's official site hcamur.ru and bilesuserviss.lv - an online site, where people buy their tickets for Riga games. I tend to believe the official figures more than a bunch of images posted by you.

Average GDP per capita in Khabarovsk: http://info.minfin.ru/passportr.php?type=71 261k RUR or 8680 USD per capita. Comparable to countries like Thailand, Albania, Jamaica. Source: http://databank.worldbank.org/ddp/ho...=12&id=4&CNO=2

I'm not sure where did you get the data about Riga or, more importantly, what on Earth does this even have to do with Riga. But just to clear things up, the GDP (PPP) per capita in the Riga region is $28 086, and you should multiply that with 5%+ to get the data for 2012. That's comparable to the national average of New Zealand or Italy. Source: http://data.csb.gov.lv/DATABASE/ekfi...opprodukts.asp; http://neogeo.lv/?p=16656

Dinamo Riga is highly unprofitable and should be disbanded. More than 80% of the budget of the team comes from ITERA (basically a sister company of Gazprom) donations. That's by how much the team's budget should be reduced for the team to break even in a normal free market situation.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:50 PM
  #512
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Gdansk have applied to join the KHL apparently. Anyone get concerned that maybe there will be too many teams in the future?

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:56 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Namejs View Post
Dinamo Riga is highly unprofitable and should be disbanded.
That would mean the best Latvian club team would have to play in the Belarus league again.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:56 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
for Namejs


I thank to VladNYC to sum it up. I wrote this milion-times here, pointless to repeat the same idea/vision every second day.

Far-East can become high-developed hub of Russia. Therefore you need Amur. KHL is not only about bussiness, to colect teams to make money. KHL is also about growing the game in Russia (mainly). And? Where is hockey under/not-developed in Russia? Far East. You need LA Kings to develop hockey in California, Dallas to develop Texas hockey, Amur to develop Far East hockey. Maybe we can find another reasons for Amur, but these are basic.
Population of California: 38 million
GDP of California: $38,956 (so in absolute terms larger than the GDP of Russia)
Population Texas: 26 million
GDP of Texas: $36,484
Population of the Russian Far East: 6 million with the largest city having a pop. size of <600k.
GDP: see above

There's no market for another team in the Russian Far East. Hell, there's no market for a single profitable team of this level there.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:00 PM
  #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
That would mean the best Latvian club team would have to play in the Belarus league again.
Oh, the horror! Most of us kinda feel that it would be in the best interests of our hockey that we'd go even further and have our best team playing strictly in Latvia, meaning we have a healthy local hockey community like Switzerland does.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:04 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Gdansk have applied to join the KHL apparently. Anyone get concerned that maybe there will be too many teams in the future?
KHL will solve it. A few clubs will be sent to VHL Medvedev said many times - maximum is 30-32 clubs, so I am calm.

Medvedev said that KHL has more options for next season, one of them are 3 conferences. Any idea how it could work?


Last edited by vorky: 02-13-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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Old
02-13-2013, 01:07 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
If you look to the future, there is every basis to conclude that the Far East, specifically on the Pacific rim, will be a real growth area for the Russian economy. Vladivostok will be the host of the upcoming Asia-Pacific Economic Conference. The economic power of the Asia-Pacific region is now emerging as one of the World's real growth areas. I see no reason why Vladivostok, a city of more than 600,000, couldn't be a contender for a KHL franchise. The benefit would be that if a team is making the trip to Khabarovsk, it is not much further to go to Vladivostok. They could get in two games for not much more than the price of one. Kind of like Los Angeles and Anaheim in the NHL. I know Vladivostok has no particular hockey history, but it is my understanding that there has been some rink-building going on there. In a city of 600,000, it shouldn't be that difficult to get 8,000-9,000 spectators per game.
From a free market perspective, it is absolutely irrational to create a new team on the other side of the globe.

The only rationale for keeping a team there is:
a) developing a professional hockey team in every part of Russia (so that clearly makes the KHL a Russian hockey league with a primary task of serving local Russian interests);
b) discouraging any decent and actually profitable European teams from joining the league.

Thinking like this defines the KHL and is the main reason why KHL will never be profitable.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:07 PM
  #518
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Namejs
Interesting comparison, but I feel the discussion is going nowhere.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:18 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by boris4c View Post
Even if there was a KHL team there, there would still be no interest from the fans (I am Serbian).
It's not really a problem for the KHL, as it applies to most of the current teams anyway.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:34 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Namejs View Post
Average GDP per capita in Khabarovsk: http://info.minfin.ru/passportr.php?type=71 261k RUR or 8680 USD per capita. Comparable to countries like Thailand, Albania, Jamaica. Source: http://databank.worldbank.org/ddp/ho...=12&id=4&CNO=2

I'm not sure where did you get the data about Riga or, more importantly, what on Earth does this even have to do with Riga. But just to clear things up, the GDP (PPP) per capita in the Riga region is $28 086, and you should multiply that with 5%+ to get the data for 2012. That's comparable to the national average of New Zealand or Italy. Source: http://data.csb.gov.lv/DATABASE/ekfi...opprodukts.asp; http://neogeo.lv/?p=16656
First you tell me that you can't read Russian, then you post an absolutely not related minfin link in Russian about Moscow? What the hell?

And more importantly, where the hell did you find tickets on hcamur.ru? There are none. And 2 euros (from 2,5 to 6 euros actually)? Those are tickets to Amurskie Tigri, an MHL team. What a fail.

Here is the whole article about ticket prices.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:49 PM
  #521
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That would mean the best Latvian club team would have to play in the Belarus league again.
Well, to be right we played in our own Latvian Samsung League before Dinamo Rīga. Only the financial crisis and Dinamo's demands that it's farm club should play in better competition, the local league was relegated to the current level and 4 best teams left to play in Belarus... after a season leaving only 2 teams alive... and after another season only Liepājas Metalurgs.

So it's not hard to understand some Latvians' resentment towards KHL project and Dinamo Rīga not only from natonalistic side but also because it effectively killed the local league and its potential development (on the other hand the financial crisis could have been even a bigger factor in why it failed and anyways, hard to imagine how far we could've grown playing locally in a 2 million country).

I don't frankly see how we were better then than we are now. Sure then there were more local teams and some more guys could earn money with hockey locally but now they do it in Finnish or Swedish 3rd leagues and are not spending Latvia's money on their hobby... I'd say that in reality we need another club in Belarus league and soon we might need (or have, if Liepājas Metalurgs qualify) another one in MHL top league for top youngsters to develop. And that's all we ideally need for hockey for next decade, if Dinamo Rīga does not collapse, of course...

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02-13-2013, 01:57 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
First you tell me that you can't read Russian, then you post an absolutely not related minfin link in Russian about Moscow? What the hell?

And more importantly, where the hell did you find tickets on hcamur.ru? There are none. And 2 euros (from 2,5 to 6 euros actually)? Those are tickets to Amurskie Tigri, an MHL team. What a fail.

Here is the whole article about ticket prices.
KHL has a lot of problems (and creating new cups in the middle of season and in the same middle of season thinking about the cancellation of the draft is not professional at all, you do that sort of thing when a season is over, before the next one, not change the rules as you go), but seems like the expantion process at the moment has been a success story, especially in Riga, Minsk and Slovan, even Lev that faces tough competition at home. The interest in hockey has grown in the first three cities and Lev has found a niche there. Maybe Astana and Donbass are not that good examples at the moment but all they need are modern 10 000 arenas... Kazakhstan is developing and Shakhtar in Donetsk has proven that there can be great sports organizations in Donetsk... Medvescak and Gdansk would be even bigger challenges as these are not really hockey markets per se but... the same could be said for many early NHL cities.

Many people had doubts about Slovan and even more so about Lev but I think this season has proven (hope not only because of lockout, although a lot of Czech stars played in the local league during it too and it did not take away Lev fans) that it has been a success story and in this KHL gained a lot. At the moment it looks like that both Slovan and Lev will be in play-offs (and possibly Donbass), so it has also been a success in the sports area. Sure you can look at Riga that had a very bad year but.... let's not forget that Torpedo and now it seems Atlant will also not reach play-off, not to mention Spartak. Last year Torpedo and Atlant were among top 4 teams in the West, look at that!! In Riga's case of course it had also to do with declining quality of the team but due to West getting more competitive some other recent regular top shelf play-off guys like Atlant are also struggling....


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02-13-2013, 02:03 PM
  #523
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if Dinamo Rīga does not collapse, of course...
if KHL needs Dinamo Riga, club will not collapse. Yes, new owner can come, not a big deal.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:08 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
First you tell me that you can't read Russian, then you post an absolutely not related minfin link in Russian about Moscow? What the hell?
Step1: Install https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...gjllcleb?hl=en
Step2: Use google to find this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ubjects_by_GRP
Step3: switch to the Russian version
Step4: copy Валовой региональный продукт по субъектам Российской Федерации from the Links section and google it
Step5: find a governmental source
Step6: find up-to-date statistics for Khabarovsk (ДАЛЬНЕВОСТОЧНЫЙ ФЕДЕРАЛЬНЫЙ ОКРУГ on the right)
Step7: PROFIT

Quote:
And more importantly, where the hell did you find tickets on hcamur.ru? There are none. And 2 euros? Those are tickets to Amurskie Tigri, an MHL team. What a fail.
Nope, I wasn't looking at MHL tickets. http://www.sport-now.ru/hockey-amur.html This is where I got the data from.

There are no sources there.

But I think you're missing the point, buddy. I'm not talking about the cost of tickets relative to other KHL clubs. I'm talking about the income from tickets relative to the size of the entire budget of the respective team. The prices are ridiculously low and it would be absolutely impossible to run a club like that using a free market approach, which is the only sustainable way of managing a club or a league in the long term.

If you think some NHL clubs are unsustainable, you'll have another think coming when you realize what's going on in the KHL, it's absolutely ludicrous.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:15 PM
  #525
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it would be absolutely impossible to run a club like that using a free market approach, which is the only sustainable way of managing a club or a league in the long term.
Even NHL is not free market. Phoenix is owned by league as I know, just an example

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