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Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

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02-13-2013, 08:28 AM
  #176
Lundsanity30
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
That's actually a lineup I don't hate. Though Richards hasn't been playing great either.
Right but nash with stepan and hags has looked great recently and we all know Richards wont sit

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02-13-2013, 08:35 AM
  #177
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Tough team for the kid to match up against, but it could also be that adrenaline wearing off after making such a big splash right away. Guess we'll see how it goes.
Miller looked pretty gassed last night. One of the many issues that come with that word 'development'

Still going to be a tough decision, but I'd say his stock ticked down a bit.

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02-13-2013, 08:38 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Miller looked pretty gassed last night. One of the many issues that come with that word 'development'

Still going to be a tough decision, but I'd say his stock ticked down a bit.
As much as I like him, I agree with everything in this post. As far as Miller not being an offensive player. Not this year (even prorated), but are you guys saying he can't become a 50 point player? No one is expecting a PPG guy.

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02-13-2013, 08:39 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Miller looked pretty gassed last night. One of the many issues that come with that word 'development'

Still going to be a tough decision, but I'd say his stock ticked down a bit.
I think they'll give him another game and if he continues the play from last night, they'll send him down. You want the kid to go back to CT with confidence, not feeling like he failed somehow. If you keep him up too long it could set him back quite a bit. Case in point: Luke Adam. Need to keep that confidence soaring.

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02-13-2013, 08:42 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
That's just it, we know he can be, and more than likely will be, but do you think he's there yet? If we continue with the Miller we saw the first 2 games, PERFECT, great, we're set. But the consistency of a 19 year old is suspect, and I'd rather have a defensive stalwart with sporadic offense like Boyle than a struggling teenager with great offensive potential, ESPECIALLY in the playoffs.

That third line, as is, isn't good enough defensively to not be creating scoring chances. I'm not saying send him down right now, or guarantee him a spot. let him finish his 5 games, and then make the decision.
Miller is not an offensive player. He's a two way player. He did look a little tired last night as did Staal and MDZ and Richards. However, that line will be very good defensively once Miller and Kreider get comfortable with the system. Kreider is already playing well defensively and Cally is Cally.

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02-13-2013, 08:45 AM
  #181
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Here's how i look at it: If Boyle's offense isn't there, his defense is.

If Miller's offense isn't there.....oh. He's not that complete of a player yet.

It's a gamble.
I look at it this way. Boyle's offense is garbage and his defense is good. He is a 4th liner. Right now we have a 4th line center playing very well and that is Jeff Halpern. Until Halpern falters or the team makes an organizational decision to send JT to Hartford BB sits and deservedly so. Both of these lines played very well in the 3rd period yesterday. keep in mind the B's scored all three goals with an extra skater, even though technically the first goal was ES, Nash was barely out of the box.

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02-13-2013, 08:47 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
His play in the past. We don't make it out of the 1st round without his goals last year.

I know he's been an offensive negative so far this year, but we know that potential for offense is there, especially when he has an edge to his game.

He's ideal on the 4th line. But Halpern has that role locked down. If Miller doesn't show us that he can be effective on an offensive 3rd line, consistently, I don't see how you have any other choice.
news flash, Boyle has been an offensive negative pretty much his whole career. If he scores it's gravy, if he sets up a goal it's a miracle. We cannot go back to having two 4th lines and that's what we'll have if Boyle replaces Miller. Boyle needs one of the 4th liners to either falter or get injured.

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02-13-2013, 08:48 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Kreider-Richards-Gaborik
Hags-Stepan-Nash
Pyatt-Miller-Callahan
Asham/Boyle-Halpern-Powe
I like this adjustment

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02-13-2013, 08:55 AM
  #184
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Nice soundbite with this "2 4th lines stuff," unfortunately its not rooted in reality.

A 3rd line of Kreider-Boyle-Callahan is legitimate.

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02-13-2013, 08:56 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
news flash, Boyle has been an offensive negative pretty much his whole career. If he scores it's gravy, if he sets up a goal it's a miracle. We cannot go back to having two 4th lines and that's what we'll have if Boyle replaces Miller. Boyle needs one of the 4th liners to either falter or get injured.
I do not think you understand the basic concepts of how most teams set up their lines. Please refer to my recent post in the Brian Boyle thread as this thread is about the USA line.

Miller did not play too poorly last night, but was overmatched physically. Many players are against the Bruins. Kreider needs to step up with that frame and play a more physical game, he is the guy who can fight through the Bruins physicality and open up room for Cally and JT.

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02-13-2013, 08:59 AM
  #186
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If Miller continues his play from last night he should be sent down. The Rangers need him to develop his offensive and defensive game. He has good potential, and you can see it in flashes, but they need him to develop an all-around game and playing 18-20 minutes in the AHL is probably better for his development at this point unless he is 100% ready.

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02-13-2013, 09:01 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Nice soundbite with this "2 4th lines stuff," unfortunately its not rooted in reality.

A 3rd line of Kreider-Boyle-Callahan is legitimate.
Callahan and Kreider are not good enough offensively to make up for Boyle. Maybe if Boyle had Jagr in his prime on his wing his line wouldn't be a 4th line.

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02-13-2013, 09:11 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Callahan and Kreider are not good enough offensively to make up for Boyle. Maybe if Boyle had Jagr in his prime on his wing his line wouldn't be a 4th line.
Funny I would say that Krieder is not good enough defensively to be a legitimate member of a third line. He is either a top six winger, or a fourth liner.

I am having quite a difficult time understanding the concept of a good defensive line being a "fourth line." It doesn't make any sense, a fourth line is an energy line, not a shutdown defensive line used to match up against the top players on your opponent's team.

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02-13-2013, 09:19 AM
  #189
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I think Miller just was more over matched this game. Bruins have 3 legitimate top centers.

Most teams don't, and matching up miller against most teams 3rd/4th line centers is likely in the rangers favor.

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02-13-2013, 09:30 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by bogans View Post
Funny I would say that Krieder is not good enough defensively to be a legitimate member of a third line. He is either a top six winger, or a fourth liner.

I am having quite a difficult time understanding the concept of a good defensive line being a "fourth line." It doesn't make any sense, a fourth line is an energy line, not a shutdown defensive line used to match up against the top players on your opponent's team.
That's why you should have good defensive players that can ply defense and skate and pass some on the 3rd line. Not saying you need PPG players on the 3rd, but guys that can skate and chip in on offense more often than once in a blue moon.

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02-13-2013, 10:36 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
That's why you should have good defensive players that can ply defense and skate and pass some on the 3rd line. Not saying you need PPG players on the 3rd, but guys that can skate and chip in on offense more often than once in a blue moon.
And that is why you have Boyle. He started the year in poor fashion, agreed, but he is a decent skater for his size, and has the ability to ship in on offense when he is running hot.

I mean, if you can convince Babcock to trade Datsyuk to the Rangers to play on the checking line, I would be all for it. Can't get Datsyuk, maybe Bergeron? What about Kesler or Toews or Jordan Staal? Can we get an example of what current NHL players you consider good checking line centers? If you can name 15 better than Brian Boyle at HIS job, I would gladly admit that NYR needs to improve that position.

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02-13-2013, 10:47 AM
  #192
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And that is why you have Boyle. He started the year in poor fashion, agreed, but he is a decent skater for his size, and has the ability to ship in on offense when he is running hot.

I mean, if you can convince Babcock to trade Datsyuk to the Rangers to play on the checking line, I would be all for it. Can't get Datsyuk, maybe Bergeron? What about Kesler or Toews or Jordan Staal? Can we get an example of what current NHL players you consider good checking line centers? If you can name 15 better than Brian Boyle at HIS job, I would gladly admit that NYR needs to improve that position.
He's on a hot streak once in a blue moon. I don't see this great skating. I'd prefer a guy that's defensively responsible but isn't a shutdown guy that can skate and pass.

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02-13-2013, 10:47 AM
  #193
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I think Miller just was more over matched this game. Bruins have 3 legitimate top centers.

Most teams don't, and matching up miller against most teams 3rd/4th line centers is likely in the rangers favor.
Absolutely, I thought of posting about this in the GDT.

Kreids and Miller didn't do too well against Boston on away ice? So what, give them another chance.

I am not sure either is ready for a full (read: half) season, but even if they were ready they are going to have subpar games.

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02-13-2013, 11:11 AM
  #194
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The Rangers need to continue to be patient with kids. That's suppose to be the plan.
Don't lose patience, just because you exceeded expectations last season. Thinking that you need a veteran presence everywhere.

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02-13-2013, 11:23 AM
  #195
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Miller has played 4 games. 4 games on the roster.

6 games burns a year of his ELC. Best guess is 24 games on the roster would start the clock on unrestricted free agency a year early.

Decisions to make. If he plays another game like last night on Thursday I would send him down. Then you can evaluate his play in Connecticut with a possible recall towards the stretch drive. That way you keep his UFA age at 27, and keep the possibility of sliding his ELC.

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02-13-2013, 01:12 PM
  #196
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People are coloring Miller's development with their immense dislike of Boyle. Two seperate issues. When Boyle is playing well, he is a good NHL player. Not so much recently. How about the Boyle from the first round of last year's playoffs before he got brained?

Thje Rangers tend to be a very conservative organization. I can easily see Boyle in, JT down for now and discussions ongoing.

Miller is going to have a long productive NHL career. It may or may not be ready to start.

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02-13-2013, 01:20 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
People are coloring Miller's development with their immense dislike of Boyle. Two seperate issues. When Boyle is playing well, he is a good NHL player. Not so much recently. How about the Boyle from the first round of last year's playoffs before he got brained?

Thje Rangers tend to be a very conservative organization. I can easily see Boyle in, JT down for now and discussions ongoing.

Miller is going to have a long productive NHL career. It may or may not be ready to start.
Well said.

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02-13-2013, 02:02 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
People are coloring Miller's development with their immense dislike of Boyle. Two seperate issues. When Boyle is playing well, he is a good NHL player. Not so much recently. How about the Boyle from the first round of last year's playoffs before he got brained?

Thje Rangers tend to be a very conservative organization. I can easily see Boyle in, JT down for now and discussions ongoing.

Miller is going to have a long productive NHL career. It may or may not be ready to start.
They weren't conservative with MDZ, Kreider, McDonagh and Sauer. None were sent down after being brought up. 3 of the 4 are D-men with more responsibilities than Miller.

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02-13-2013, 02:06 PM
  #199
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They weren't conservative with MDZ, Kreider, McDonagh and Sauer. None were sent down after being brought up. 3 of the 4 are D-men with more responsibilities than Miller.
Del Zotto was sent down. Sauer was 23 and waiver eligible when he got called up full-time. Kreider has played in 25 NHL games, he may get sent down yet.

edit: and only Del Zotto had the contract implications that Miller has.


Last edited by Brian Boyle: 02-13-2013 at 02:18 PM.
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02-13-2013, 02:23 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
They weren't conservative with MDZ, Kreider, McDonagh and Sauer. None were sent down after being brought up. 3 of the 4 are D-men with more responsibilities than Miller.
Save for Del Zotto, all are entirely different situations than what Miller is facing. Sauer, McD and Kreider were all 21 or older before seeing NHL action. Miller is still a teenager.

Del Zotto played his way onto the roster and filled a huge need for this team. He was tremendous. If Miller can continue to play the way he played before last night, they would likely find a spot for him. If he can't, they'd probably prefer to send him down before his confidence gets ruined.

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