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Would you consider moving Cole if the price is right?

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Old
02-12-2013, 05:08 PM
  #226
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Trading Cole last year is like trading Markov this year or Gionta next year. You got a player nearing 35, having a good year but you know soon his play will start falling off.
You don't know, some palyers just keep going and going and going.

Usually you don't get a fortune for older guys anyways so no sense dumping them unless they will be a UFA.

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Old
02-12-2013, 07:14 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
In general, it totally makes sense.
But under some special circumstances, a trade may be made even the price is not right, eg. Roy, Grabovski, Sergei, Ribeiro, Chelios, etc.
There was nothing wrong with the return we got for Grabovski.

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02-12-2013, 07:37 PM
  #228
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No reason to. Teams will not offer anywhere near what Montreal would want until he starts playing better and once that happens. Well, why trade him?

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02-13-2013, 12:21 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
There was nothing wrong with the return we got for Grabovski.
in a bubble... sure. getting a 2nd round pick for a smallish player who was a 5th rd draft pick, with minimal NHL resume seems pretty good.

in reality?

the trade was a perfect reflection of what a terrible job that management team did in evaluating/developing adult/pro players.

less than a year after trading away Grabovski, we made the Gomez trade... aqcuiring another smallish center, at the cost of our top prospect + a quality young player.

Gomez went on to score 108pts in 196 games for us (.55ppg), while taking up a mind--boggling 7.4M$ of cap space.

in the same span, Grabovski put up 144pts in 214 games (.67ppg), costing our hated division rivals only 8.6M$ COMBINED over the same time span.

Sorry, but any kind of objective review of how we handled Grabovski, as an asset, can only point to one conclusion... a colossal screw-up, one that rightfully contributed to all those involved getting a one-way ticket out of town.

just think of how much better the habs of 2009-2012 would have been with Koivu-Grabovski-Plekanec instead of Plekanec- Gomez - ???... especially when you then add in Higgins, McDo, $ about 3M$/ of extra cap space each season.


The "return" for Grabovski was terrible considering how thin we were at C, how good of a prospect he was (he had been absolutely dominant in the AHL, and not at all out of place in his brief NHL stint, the year we moved him), and that we subsequently traded away that 2nd round pick to get a much older/fragile C who lasted only 40 games with us and was overpaid.

i wish the idiocy of the gainey regime could just go softly into that good night... his tenure was an abject failure, he's in Dallas now because of it, really no more need to try to rationalize his blunders, of which the handling of Grabovski does rank among the worst (especially since it helped contribute directly to the "need" for the epic failure that the Gomez deal was).

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:08 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You don't know, some palyers just keep going and going and going.

Usually you don't get a fortune for older guys anyways so no sense dumping them unless they will be a UFA.
Players who've had mutliple problems with their knees and are in their mid 30s aren't great candidates for playing much more than 5 years man. The young player/prospect that we get will be entering his prime in 3-5 years and Markov will be retiring if he hasn't already.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:14 AM
  #231
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Would you consider moving right if the price was Cole ?

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:19 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The most important piece of the attracting free agents puzzle is being able to offer the most money. That is why Cammalleri, Gionta, Spacek, Moen, Prust, and Cole came here.

Get rid of Cole and our cap space goes up, we can then offer money to someone else and they'll come here.
Can't agree with you here DA, which is rare. Moving Cole now is classless, disrupts his family, and shows no faith. It would definitely hurt the Habs in the future FA hunt.

Habs made a 4 year commitment. At least 3 are required unless Cole asks to move, or is injured.

We all know FA signings are dangerous. All I ask is that Habs make the right ones at the right time. Once you sign a guy, you should stick to the commitment, so be very careful.

In any case, Cole will bounce back, and I expect him to be effective next year also. 20-25 goal effective, with leadership. That is what we pay him for, and he knows that.

I agree with moving Vets for picks at this stage, you know that, but not in Cole's case, unless he wants out.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:58 AM
  #233
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As much as I'm down with a mini-tank/rebuild, no way do we trade Cole. he's pretty much a seasoned slow starter. I'd trade Gionta way before Cole. We need size more than anything.

All the Cole bashing and yet he's been more a presence than Patches so far.

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02-13-2013, 07:34 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by makbowles View Post
As much as I'm down with a mini-tank/rebuild, no way do we trade Cole. he's pretty much a seasoned slow starter. I'd trade Gionta way before Cole. We need size more than anything.

All the Cole bashing and yet he's been more a presence than Patches so far.
That probably has something to do with the fact that Cole has had a few extra games to get his timing under him, while Max had that appendectomy ruin the start of the season for him, and likely set him back a few games. At the very least.

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02-13-2013, 08:28 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Can't agree with you here DA, which is rare. Moving Cole now is classless, disrupts his family, and shows no faith. It would definitely hurt the Habs in the future FA hunt.

Habs made a 4 year commitment. At least 3 are required unless Cole asks to move, or is injured.

We all know FA signings are dangerous. All I ask is that Habs make the right ones at the right time. Once you sign a guy, you should stick to the commitment, so be very careful.

In any case, Cole will bounce back, and I expect him to be effective next year also. 20-25 goal effective, with leadership. That is what we pay him for, and he knows that.

I agree with moving Vets for picks at this stage, you know that, but not in Cole's case, unless he wants out.
This would be a terrific point except the people who committed to him are no longer a part of the organization. If we had the same GM as when you signed him then yeah you are absolutely right but as sad as it is for cole Bergevin doesn't owe him anything

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:30 AM
  #236
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No player should be untouchable and if the return is good for Cole i'd move him.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:56 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
No player should be untouchable and if the return is good for Cole i'd move him.
It's not about being untoucheable. We have a realtively young team, dumping vets just because the offer is good is a bad idea. A key part of "rebuilding" that some teams miss on is having their young players learn from the veterans and not have to carry the team, that alone is worth more than an extra pick or two.

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:00 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It's not about being untoucheable. We have a realtively young team, dumping vets just because the offer is good is a bad idea. A key part of "rebuilding" that some teams miss on is having their young players learn from the veterans and not have to carry the team, that alone is worth more than an extra pick or two.
I'm all for keeping vets around for the younger players but I would start the list with Plekanec and Gionta as my keepers and if Cole is movable I would move him.

Cole has not been a leader since the day the lockout was over

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02-13-2013, 09:07 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I'm all for keeping vets around for the younger players but I would start the list with Plekanec and Gionta as my keepers and if Cole is movable I would move him.

Cole has not been a leader since the day the lockout was over
He is a leader in that he expects a lot from himself and plays fearlessly.

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02-13-2013, 09:11 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He is a leader in that he expects a lot from himself and plays fearlessly.
I'm sorry are we still talking about cole here? Cause I got lost for a second...

And don't use the line "he's a slow starter" that can help if this was a full season but if it takes him longer then 1/4 of the year then he clearly isn't here for current success and the only reason to keep him around is to succeed this year

Get him out of here

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:11 AM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He is a leader in that he expects a lot from himself and plays fearlessly.
Maybe it's just me but I haven't seen that from him this year. Right now he looks like the Cole that was in Edmonton years ago

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02-13-2013, 09:51 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
in a bubble... sure. getting a 2nd round pick for a smallish player who was a 5th rd draft pick, with minimal NHL resume seems pretty good.

in reality?

the trade was a perfect reflection of what a terrible job that management team did in evaluating/developing adult/pro players.

less than a year after trading away Grabovski, we made the Gomez trade... aqcuiring another smallish center, at the cost of our top prospect + a quality young player.

Gomez went on to score 108pts in 196 games for us (.55ppg), while taking up a mind--boggling 7.4M$ of cap space.

in the same span, Grabovski put up 144pts in 214 games (.67ppg), costing our hated division rivals only 8.6M$ COMBINED over the same time span.

Sorry, but any kind of objective review of how we handled Grabovski, as an asset, can only point to one conclusion... a colossal screw-up, one that rightfully contributed to all those involved getting a one-way ticket out of town.

just think of how much better the habs of 2009-2012 would have been with Koivu-Grabovski-Plekanec instead of Plekanec- Gomez - ???... especially when you then add in Higgins, McDo, $ about 3M$/ of extra cap space each season.


The "return" for Grabovski was terrible considering how thin we were at C, how good of a prospect he was (he had been absolutely dominant in the AHL, and not at all out of place in his brief NHL stint, the year we moved him), and that we subsequently traded away that 2nd round pick to get a much older/fragile C who lasted only 40 games with us and was overpaid.

i wish the idiocy of the gainey regime could just go softly into that good night... his tenure was an abject failure, he's in Dallas now because of it, really no more need to try to rationalize his blunders, of which the handling of Grabovski does rank among the worst (especially since it helped contribute directly to the "need" for the epic failure that the Gomez deal was).
Wait a second return for Grabovski? a colossal screw-up, one that rightfully contributed to all those involved getting a one-way ticket out of town? If my memory serves me correct Grabovski stay in Montreal towards the end was anything good to right about did he leave the team on his own during the California swing? Was making life difficult for the captain, coach and team? You think he was worth staying? wow Grabovski was packed and ready to go it wasn't a colossal screw-up he has issues and eventually it will show again.

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:01 AM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Maybe it's just me but I haven't seen that from him this year. Right now he looks like the Cole that was in Edmonton years ago
He has had a slow start, but he seems to have that every year. I'm not worried.

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:34 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He has had a slow start, but he seems to have that every year. I'm not worried.
I know you're not, I also know you're not worried about Kaberle as well

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:39 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I know you're not, I also know you're not worried about Kaberle as well
Why should we worry about Kaberle? He is there for insurance, might be traded if we can get good return, worst case he gets bought out in the summer. Where is the problem?

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02-13-2013, 11:45 AM
  #246
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I can't believe there are so many pages for a such obvious question.

Everybody would trade anybody if the price is right.

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:46 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why should we worry about Kaberle? He is there for insurance, might be traded if we can get good return, worst case he gets bought out in the summer. Where is the problem?
The problem is the wasted cap space and the fact that we could have moved Spacek at the deadline and got a pick for him which would have been a much better return rather then that waste in Kaberle

As for Cole it's more then simply a slow start

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02-13-2013, 11:54 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I can't believe there are so many pages for a such obvious question.

Everybody would trade anybody if the price is right.
pretty much.

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:54 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
The problem is the wasted cap space and the fact that we could have moved Spacek at the deadline and got a pick for him which would have been a much better return rather then that waste in Kaberle

As for Cole it's more then simply a slow start
This has been mentionned like 43 times already but you must have missed it. Carolina traied to move Spacek at the deadline but had no takers...why would we have been able to get a pick and Carolina couldn't?????

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:20 PM
  #250
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There are very few untouchables on this roster. Given the right offer I would pack his bags for him.

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