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Death to the Undertaker....The all purpose Fire McPhee thread

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:16 AM
  #801
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Depends on how you build your team. I agree he shouldn't be on a shutdown line or agitating/grinding line. But if you're going to roll three scoring lines, he could fill a spot on the third one and your 2nd PP unit. He's decent enough at cycling the puck he could also fill in on a possession line, as well.
I'm not a fan of the 3 scoring line set up.

Personally I can't wait til Wolski hits the press box. I hate his lack of agression on the boards.

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02-13-2013, 11:37 AM
  #802
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I'm not a fan of the 3 scoring line set up.

Personally I can't wait til Wolski hits the press box. I hate his lack of agression on the boards.

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02-13-2013, 11:41 AM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Yeah but Marcus is younger than WW so there is upside in him still.

WW is what you see out there. There is no more improvement coming from him and there is a reason why he has been on several teams over the course of a couple years.

I still believe in MJ. He just needs to get stronger and find his confidence.

WW ...ugghhh

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02-13-2013, 11:46 AM
  #804
Brad Tolliver
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Wolski's only 26. The same problems he has now are the same problems he had at 22.

"Upside" disappears very quickly. At one point in time Wolski just need to get stronger and find his confidence too.

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02-13-2013, 11:51 AM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Wolski's only 26. The same problems he has now are the same problems he had at 22.

"Upside" disappears very quickly. At one point in time Wolski just need to get stronger and find his confidence too.
Maybe but not all players reach their potential for one reason or another. Just b/c Wolski didn't does not mean MJ won't.

This is just the beginning of his 3rd full season. He was the 3rd leading scorer on our team last year and one of our better playoff performers the year before last.

Unlike you I am not prepared to write him off just yet.

I take you want Carlson gone as well?

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02-13-2013, 11:54 AM
  #806
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Maybe but not all players reach their potential for one reason or another. Just b/c Wolski didn't does not mean MJ won't.

This is just the beginning of his 3rd full season. He was the 3rd leading scorer on our team last year and one of our better playoff performers the year before last.

Unlike you I am not prepared to write him off just yet.

I take you want Carlson gone as well?
I don't think MJ is a bust yet. But I don't see him as a piece going forward. Get him back to playing his speed game, build his value up and trade him.

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02-13-2013, 11:59 AM
  #807
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I don't think MJ is a bust yet. But I don't see him as a piece going forward. Get him back to playing his speed game, build his value up and trade him.
Well sure seems like you think he will be a bust!

If we get him back to playing his speed game and he gets his confidence back then why trade him?

I don't like giving up on young promising players. John Oduya and Jason Allison immediately come to mind.

I wonder how the Calgary Flames feel about giving up on a young promising Martin St Louis who has become a cornerstone of a franchise?

Undersized, lacked strength, confidence and production as part of the flames. They cut ties and BAM he becomes an MVP caliber player.

Its worth it to take the risk of holding onto him. He does have upside

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02-13-2013, 12:03 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Maybe but not all players reach their potential for one reason or another. Just b/c Wolski didn't does not mean MJ won't.

This is just the beginning of his 3rd full season. He was the 3rd leading scorer on our team last year and one of our better playoff performers the year before last.

Unlike you I am not prepared to write him off just yet.
So he is following the Wolski career path. Johansson has shown absolutely nothing that suggests that he will develop better than Wolski did. What exactly does he have that Wolski didn't have?

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I take you want Carlson gone as well?
Nope. I don't think Carlson's struggles has anything do with being "soft" as in the case of Johansson. If you want a defensive comparison, Jeff Schultz is a much better comparison. I would have been happy to see him go back when he was 22 as well.

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02-13-2013, 12:05 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
So he is following the Wolski career path. Johansson has shown absolutely nothing that suggests that he will develop better than Wolski did. What exactly does he have that Wolski didn't have?
The Flames thought the same with St Louis. How did that work out for them?

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02-13-2013, 12:07 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Well sure seems like you think he will be a bust!

If we get him back to playing his speed game and he gets his confidence back then why trade him?

I don't like giving up on young promising players. John Oduya and Jason Allison immediately come to mind.

I wonder how the Calgary Flames feel about giving up on a young promising Martin St Louis who has become a cornerstone of a franchise?

Undersized, lacked strength, confidence and production as part of the flames. They cut ties and BAM he becomes an MVP caliber player.

Its worth it to take the risk of holding onto him. He does have upside
Martin St. Louis was 25 when he went to Tampa. I doubt he just hit a growth spurt in his mid-to-late 20s. His problem in Calgary was that he never got meaningful ice time.

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02-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Martin St. Louis was 25 when he went to Tampa. I doubt he just hit a growth spurt in his mid-to-late 20s. His problem in Calgary was that he never got meaningful ice time.
His problem was that Calgary did not show enough patience with him. Which is exactly what you are doing with MJ.

Patience my friend..patience. You don't give up on a player that is 22 that has already shown signs of promise.

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02-13-2013, 12:30 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
The Flames thought the same with St Louis. How did that work out for them?
For every St Louis, there are 500 other guys who didn't EVER pan out. Can't manage a franchise very well from a position of fear and whatifs.

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02-13-2013, 12:32 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
So question for McPhee... how is Semin not "our own" guys? Drafted and developed by the Capitals... at the time he had played 0 career games for other NHL teams...
Seems clear....he didn't consider Semin as his guy any more. Team management was simply ready to move on. $7 mil for 20g doesn't keep you around for long.

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02-13-2013, 12:42 PM
  #814
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There was one sequence last night in the 3rd period where Wolski ran into the boards and as a result either loss or dropped his stick, then shortly thereafter on the same shift near the benches Wolski dropped his stick again but he couldn't pick it up as a Panther player was straddling the stick. Both stick drops occurred without Wolski having any contact with an opponent.

The boy needs to get some Fred Belitnikoff stickum for his gloves.

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02-13-2013, 12:45 PM
  #815
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The best was Wolski checking himself into the boards...dying for someone to GIF that. That shift was a microcosm of the Caps season. Stumbling, bumbling, and generally embarrassing.

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02-13-2013, 12:50 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
For every St Louis, there are 500 other guys who didn't EVER pan out. Can't manage a franchise very well from a position of fear and whatifs.
So do you suggest that if by 22 the player does not show consistency then it is time to move on??

Thats an awful quick trigger finger you have there.

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02-13-2013, 12:51 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
For every St Louis, there are 500 other guys who didn't EVER pan out. Can't manage a franchise very well from a position of fear and whatifs.
But not making a decision is always easier than making one, particularly if ownership has endless patience.

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02-13-2013, 12:52 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Seems clear....he didn't consider Semin as his guy any more. Team management was simply ready to move on. $7 mil for 20g doesn't keep you around for long.
Semin's cap hit dollars per goal ratio his last 2 years in DC was $259,183.

Ovechkin's over the same time was $272,527.

So you were saying...?

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:54 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
So do you suggest that if by 22 the player does not show consistency then it is time to move on??

Thats an awful quick trigger finger you have there.
Sometimes yes. I certainly am NOT suggesting you never trade a young player for fear he's the next NHL MVP.


As with any boss and his employees, you evaluate the talent and you make a decision. Indecision is even more inexcusable to me.

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02-13-2013, 12:56 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Semin's cap hit dollars per goal ratio his last 2 years in DC was $259,183.

Ovechkin's over the same time was $272,527.

So you were saying...?
I know you're on the Trade Ovechkin train, but if you can't see the business advantages that even a struggling Ovechkin has brought the franchise vs. what Semin brought....well you probably should excuse yourself from the discussion.

Two-time MVP

vs

One-time 40g scorer


The end.

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02-13-2013, 01:00 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Sometimes yes. I certainly am NOT suggesting you never trade a young player for fear he's the next NHL MVP.


As with any boss and his employees, you evaluate the talent and you make a decision. Indecision is even more inexcusable to me.
Do you believe MJ lacks talent?

I don't. He is a great skater with a good head on his shoulders that needs to bulk up by about 10-15lbs. It can make a world of difference if he does.

He should be a center. That is his natural position and he plays much better there. He does need to work on face offs.

Don't be too quick to reach your decision. The kid was our 3rd leading scorer just last year.

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02-13-2013, 01:08 PM
  #822
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Do you believe MJ lacks talent?

I don't. He is a great skater with a good head on his shoulders that needs to bulk up by about 10-15lbs. It can make a world of difference if he does.

He should be a center. That is his natural position and he plays much better there. He does need to work on face offs.

Don't be too quick to reach your decision. The kid was our 3rd leading scorer just last year.
A driven athlete can easily gain 10-15 pounds of muscle in a single offseason. In fact, most of the better young players in the league have done just that. Johansson hasn't done anything about his weakness on the puck in 2 full offseasons. So you can add lazy to your scouting report.

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02-13-2013, 01:11 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Do you believe MJ lacks talent?

I don't. He is a great skater with a good head on his shoulders that needs to bulk up by about 10-15lbs. It can make a world of difference if he does.

He should be a center. That is his natural position and he plays much better there. He does need to work on face offs.

Don't be too quick to reach your decision. The kid was our 3rd leading scorer just last year.
I'm a fan of him, but I see a few issues that make him tradable.

- He's physically soft and has no grit

- He has no apparent slot on the team where he can excel (sucks as a wing, and there are no open center spots for him)

- Horrible at faceoffs which even further limits his effectiveness


Basically he's redundant. I think he could without a doubt blossom into a very good forward some day. BUT, to reshape a team you have to trade someone. Who can we get a good return from AND not create a gaping hole in the lineup? Mojo fits the bill today.

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02-13-2013, 01:12 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
A driven athlete can easily gain 10-15 pounds of muscle in a single offseason. In fact, most of the better young players in the league have done just that. Johansson hasn't done anything about his weakness on the puck in 2 full offseasons. So you can add lazy to your scouting report.
One thing I would not call MJ is lazy. He skates hard and doesn't coast.

He is 22. Its not far fetched to think that he can gain that weight over the next couple years.

Again it seems alot of us have differening thresholds of patience. I've seen enough in this 22 year old and nothing to me suggests or warrants parting ways just yet..

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
I'm a fan of him, but I see a few issues that make him tradable.

- He's physically soft and has no grit

- He has no apparent slot on the team where he can excel (sucks as a wing, and there are no open center spots for him)

- Horrible at faceoffs which even further limits his effectiveness


Basically he's redundant. I think he could without a doubt blossom into a very good forward some day. BUT, to reshape a team you have to trade someone. Who can we get a good return from AND not create a gaping hole in the lineup? Mojo fits the bill today.
Face offs can be worked on and improved. He is a better face off man than Ribeiro already.

His natural position is Center. It will take time for him to adjust to being a winger.

He does seem physically intimidated. That IMO is in large part due to needing to gain some weight. That is something acheivable.

He is cheap and promising and at this time his trade value is compromised due to him not playing well ATM. Its best to hold onto him.

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02-13-2013, 01:14 PM
  #825
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Sadly Tinner it seems as if McPhee has rubbed off on you. If you wait too long and finally determine that Mojo is what he is and nothing more, his trade value is crushed.

You have to trade a guy when he's got upside to maximize value on the return.

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