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Malkin's Line Concerns Me Deeply. Panic!

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Old
02-12-2013, 07:19 PM
  #201
MrBurghundy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Boychuk passes the puck off way too much, he has opportunities to shoot and then passes it to Neal or Malkin, forced passes too where any other player in that same situation would shoot the puck. I still want to give Boychuk a shot, but seriously, he has barely 1 shot a game.

I'm all for swapping Boychuk with Cooke for a few games, just so the Geno line has a guy that drives to the net, will shoot, and is good at cycling the puck.
I almost guarantee you he almost feels compelled to pass the puck to Malkin with the way Malkin plays the game.

I just ****ing wish we could see the kid at least tried with Crosby before completely writing him off like every single other player this season, or any other season for that matter. When was the last time anybody has been tried with Sid on a consistent basis? It's always Malkin, and then when they don't produce they are back on the bench or wherever else they were playing. Yet here we all are, wanting to find a new winger to replace Dupuis on Crosby's line. FFS just try somebody else for a few shifts. What's the worst ****ing thing that can happen? It doesn't work and you have to shift things back?

Sorry about the swearing, I just needed to vent a bit. Bylsma frustrates the hell out of me with his personnel decisions.

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02-12-2013, 07:43 PM
  #202
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Wouldn't mind seeing:

Cooke-Sid-Dupuis
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Jeffrey-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams

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02-12-2013, 08:09 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Perhaps he's near the boards more because he's the only one on his line who can win a puck battle. Perhaps he's forcing the puck to Neal because he's got nowhere else to go with it and no puck support from the other winger.

The sooner he gets back to bearing down on the goaltender is right. Unfortunately, it's not a luxury he's had this season.

Personally, I think Malkin would find greener NHL pastures outside of Pittsburgh, and it goes well beyond the money. I just hope that he never realizes it, because I suspect his buddies Kovalchuk and Datsyuk will spend the summer telling him about the wonders of playing for guys like Peter DeBoer and Mike Babcock, coaches who will trust him, in systems designed to accentuate his strengths, and where his quality of linemates will take precedence over the construction of the third or even fourth lines. Plus, if Malkin left, then the Pens could be a euro free zone at last, without anyone who might not fit the whole 'get to our game' approach.
If Malkin were added to either of those teams as a UFA it would be lights out for rest of the league. He would be a two-way terror, stealing pucks in transition, and tearing it up on both special teams. Could you imagine a PK tandem of Malkin/Dats or Malkin/ Kovalchuk? (right now Malkin gets 3 seconds a game on the PK) Also his TOI would go up I think....

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02-12-2013, 08:12 PM
  #204
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Malkin is a rhythm player. If he's not playing over 20+ minutes a night, and be relied upon to be used in all kinds of situations, you're not going to get the most out of him.

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02-12-2013, 09:55 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Malkin is a rhythm player. If he's not playing over 20+ minutes a night, and be relied upon to be used in all kinds of situations, you're not going to get the most out of him.
Ain't that the truth. On top of everything else, he truly takes over the game when he is able to use his wingers.

Malkin can take over a game in a way not seen since late 90's Jagr.

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02-12-2013, 10:43 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I almost guarantee you he almost feels compelled to pass the puck to Malkin with the way Malkin plays the game.

I just ****ing wish we could see the kid at least tried with Crosby before completely writing him off like every single other player this season, or any other season for that matter. When was the last time anybody has been tried with Sid on a consistent basis? It's always Malkin, and then when they don't produce they are back on the bench or wherever else they were playing. Yet here we all are, wanting to find a new winger to replace Dupuis on Crosby's line. FFS just try somebody else for a few shifts. What's the worst ****ing thing that can happen? It doesn't work and you have to shift things back?

Sorry about the swearing, I just needed to vent a bit. Bylsma frustrates the hell out of me with his personnel decisions.
I wonder if it's Bylsma telling the kid to pass, because if it wasn't the coach that was telling him to, he would have been benched a long time ago. I think they're forcing the puck to Neal & Geno to get them going like last season, but it's pretty rough to watch.

I'd love to see Kunitz back with Geno and Boychuk tried with Crosby for maybe 2-3 games.

I'm more annoyed with the coaching than I am the top 6 winger situation or Geno's line.

I think the team's biggest problem is the coaching, Byslma has run his course in Pittsburgh. Whatever happened in Philadelphia last year, it broke him. Bylsma has no idea what his system is anymore and you see it on the ice, players look lost half the time and it's a mess, the play in their own zone is a mess, neutral zone it's a mess, and in the offensive zone, it's a mess. They try to play run and gun and then revert back to the other system and then it fuses into some weird hybrid that makes everyone look lost, including Crosby & Malkin. If Bylsma ever called out players like Therrien, the team would have ousted Bylsma long ago. Because he's a quiet guy that is well liked thanks to the 24/7 thing and the Cup win, it seems like he has a free pass.

Sorry, but Bylsma seems to be the problem. I look at other teams that win with less than what the Pens boast and to me, it seems like the coaching is the problem. A coach that can evolve with the players, is the coach this team needs. Bylsma has no clue how to do that and it seems like he's too stubborn to see it himself. Not to mention the way he handles young players.

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02-12-2013, 10:58 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I think the team's biggest problem is the coaching, Byslma has run his course in Pittsburgh. Whatever happened in Philadelphia last year, it broke him. Bylsma has no idea what his system is anymore and you see it on the ice, players look lost half the time and it's a mess, the play in their own zone is a mess, neutral zone it's a mess, and in the offensive zone, it's a mess. They try to play run and gun and then revert back to the other system and then it fuses into some weird hybrid that makes everyone look lost, including Crosby & Malkin. If Bylsma ever called out players like Therrien, the team would have ousted Bylsma long ago. Because he's a quiet guy that is well liked thanks to the 24/7 thing and the Cup win, it seems like he has a free pass.

Sorry, but Bylsma seems to be the problem. I look at other teams that win with less than what the Pens boast and to me, it seems like the coaching is the problem. A coach that can evolve with the players, is the coach this team needs. Bylsma has no clue how to do that and it seems like he's too stubborn to see it himself. Not to mention the way he handles young players.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY

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02-12-2013, 10:59 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I wonder if it's Bylsma telling the kid to pass, because if it wasn't the coach that was telling him to, he would have been benched a long time ago. I think they're forcing the puck to Neal & Geno to get them going like last season, but it's pretty rough to watch.
I think it's far more likely that Boychuk either doesn't want the puck or has no idea what to do with it.

"Bylsma telling the kid to pass" doesn't explain his unwillingness to even attempt to fight for body position or his "lets not and say we did" approach to driving to the net or looking for gaps in coverage, neither of which are instructions any coach would give to anybody.

Not wanting the puck or not knowing what to do with it in the offensive zone both do explain the rest of his deficiencies.

Boychuk requires an amount of time and space he's never ever going to see on even a rare basis before he looks capable of making a play.

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02-12-2013, 11:01 PM
  #209
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I dont think we should worry about malkin, im hoping shero signs him on the first day the last year of his contract starts, letang on the other hand scares me for some reason. I think he would love to stay as we would pay him and make him our uncontested #1 defencemen, but something still worries me that hes gonna pull a suter..

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02-13-2013, 12:39 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Jill Sandwich View Post
Kunitz should be on Malkin's line. Malkin needs a puck retrieval guy, a guy who will go into the boards and punish defenders.

It's too bad Tangradi isn't working out, because his size is exactly what Malkin needs on his wing. Kunitz is getting a little broken, and if Tangradi could have brought what we lost with Ryan Malone, it would've been great.

But Malkin is also ridiculous undisciplined. I can't think of a more undisciplined player in the entire league who isn't playing 8 minutes a game on a fourth line. The way he completely loses his head and either starts pouting or taking stupid penalties is absolutely unacceptable for someone getting paid like a superstar.

Crosby gets the toughest defensive matches, and yet him, Kunitz and Dupuis are +7, +7 and +6. Malkin's at -2, Neal is at -6. That's unacceptable even strength play.
Not according this this usage chart calculated after this weekends losses via Pensburg blog. (Last weeks can be found here)



Horizontal axis = Percentage of offensive zone starts. The farther to the right, the more offensive zone starts.
Vertical axis = Quality of competition. The higher the bubble, the tougher the competition.
Blue bubble = Positive relative Corsi
White bubble = Negative relative Corsi

So, yeah, Malkin gets more offensive zone starts, but he's actually facing tougher competition than Crosby.

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02-13-2013, 05:05 AM
  #211
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Revive the Koon-Geno-Jimmy Neal line (the best line in hockey last season), and trade a D-man for a top-6 winger.

Bylsma and Shero need to do these things respectively.

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02-13-2013, 05:57 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I think it's far more likely that Boychuk either doesn't want the puck or has no idea what to do with it.

"Bylsma telling the kid to pass" doesn't explain his unwillingness to even attempt to fight for body position or his "lets not and say we did" approach to driving to the net or looking for gaps in coverage, neither of which are instructions any coach would give to anybody.

Not wanting the puck or not knowing what to do with it in the offensive zone both do explain the rest of his deficiencies.

Boychuk requires an amount of time and space he's never ever going to see on even a rare basis before he looks capable of making a play.
A few shifts maybe, but for the most part, he gets the puck and right away he's already looking for Neal or Malkin, it's like he's playing hot potato.

A guy that scores 20+ goals in the AHL, knows what to do with the puck. He doesn't automatically turn into an idiot at the NHL level. Coaches tell you what they want out of you when you are put on a different line.

If Boychuk was some 15 goal scorer with like 35+ assists at the AHL level, I'd be like "yeah he's more of a playmaker, not a 20+ goal guy.." but that's not the case. He is more of a playmaker, but his goal scoring abilities aren't lacking. He was a 30 goal scorer (2x) in Juniors and he scored 20 or more in 2 out of his 3 full AHL seasons, this year he was at 16 in 37 games, good chance he was going to score closer to 30. 74 goals in 215 AHL games.

We are all so quick to judge players, only recently is Bylsma starting to get the heat for some of this from us fans.

The only guy that worked on Malkin's line is Kunitz, why? He's an NHL veteran, he gets the puck and has a scoring chance, he'll shoot even if the coach tells him "pass it to Geno & Neal to get them going"...Kunitz is set in his ways at this point in his career, will he look for them, sure, but he won't give up a scoring chance because he knows, Bylsma is going to play him no matter what.

Boychuk and Tangradi, they don't have a spot in this line-up if they have a bad game or two, they get benched.

I'm just so frustrated with this coaching and I have been since last season, I might not be all that coherent in this post, and it's late.

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02-13-2013, 06:02 AM
  #213
Honour Over Glory
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Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Revive the Koon-Geno-Jimmy Neal line (the best line in hockey last season), and trade a D-man for a top-6 winger.

Bylsma and Shero need to do these things respectively.
I'd love to see this for the next 2-3 games.

Kunitz, Malkin, Neal
Boychuk, Crosby, Dupuis

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02-13-2013, 07:42 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I'd love to see this for the next 2-3 games.

Kunitz, Malkin, Neal
Boychuk, Crosby, Dupuis
I don't know why you'd want to do that to Crosby, but regardless of that they wouldn't even let Malkin have the half wall on the PP when he's a notch better than Crosby there AND Crosby is better down low. We should all let that sink in: They've let their power play struggle for multiple years so Crosby can play grab ass with Malkin on that half wall. In other words, they go to ludicrous extremes to keep Crosby happy. They're not going to switch the lines to that.

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02-13-2013, 11:51 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
A few shifts maybe, but for the most part, he gets the puck and right away he's already looking for Neal or Malkin, it's like he's playing hot potato.

A guy that scores 20+ goals in the AHL, knows what to do with the puck. He doesn't automatically turn into an idiot at the NHL level. Coaches tell you what they want out of you when you are put on a different line.

If Boychuk was some 15 goal scorer with like 35+ assists at the AHL level, I'd be like "yeah he's more of a playmaker, not a 20+ goal guy.." but that's not the case. He is more of a playmaker, but his goal scoring abilities aren't lacking. He was a 30 goal scorer (2x) in Juniors and he scored 20 or more in 2 out of his 3 full AHL seasons, this year he was at 16 in 37 games, good chance he was going to score closer to 30. 74 goals in 215 AHL games.

We are all so quick to judge players, only recently is Bylsma starting to get the heat for some of this from us fans.

The only guy that worked on Malkin's line is Kunitz, why? He's an NHL veteran, he gets the puck and has a scoring chance, he'll shoot even if the coach tells him "pass it to Geno & Neal to get them going"...Kunitz is set in his ways at this point in his career, will he look for them, sure, but he won't give up a scoring chance because he knows, Bylsma is going to play him no matter what.

Boychuk and Tangradi, they don't have a spot in this line-up if they have a bad game or two, they get benched.

I'm just so frustrated with this coaching and I have been since last season, I might not be all that coherent in this post, and it's late.
Boychuk was a nonentity with the exact same problems under 2 different coaches in Carolina, neither of which was Dan Bylsma. 20 goals in the AHL is not that impressive and doesn't indicate a guy is a top 6 forward. To put in perspective, Boychuk's goal-scoring numbers are trash compared to those of Michel Ouellet, who is not an NHL forward.

If there's a cognitive effect with this guy, it's that people give him way more rope than he's demonstrated to deserve because some scouts for another team thought enough of him 6 years ago that they invested a first round pick.

If not for that factor, Boychuk would be a depth forward in Switzerland, where he belongs, not getting prized ice-time with two NHL first team all-stars where he doesn't.

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02-13-2013, 12:06 PM
  #216
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Can O'Reilly play wing?

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02-13-2013, 12:12 PM
  #217
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Can O'Reilly play wing?
He could play wing but I do think his game would suffer. He will also have a high salary so if you put him on wing and he can't match his center output it's a problem.

In the end I think it's too big of a gamble.

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02-13-2013, 12:16 PM
  #218
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On the balance of the arguments in this thread, after losing back-to-back to the Devils, the season is lost.

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