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All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 2.0

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:33 AM
  #826
bsl
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Again, you are mistaking "asking the players to shoot beside the net" and "asking the management to invest in their team by selling high and becoming a much better teams for years to come". Something we haven't see for the past 18 years now. A great team that is a REAL great team. Not a 1 year fluke. This is the Montreal Canadiens. We have to be great once again. We should have had the 10ish years than Detroit just had. And I surely want the next 10 years to what Boston is about to have.
Fantastic post WS, exactly.

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02-13-2013, 09:36 AM
  #827
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
but "tanking" has worked for the isles,panthers, oilers,bluejackets,avalanche and philly .
My god. You are right. You just killed us with that razor argument. Mods, close the thread. This is truly a great day.

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:40 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
That stronger D is on its way with Dougie Hamilton. He, Seguin and Rask are going to be awesome for that team. Can't believe the Leafs basically gave them a contending core.
Trade of the decade. I have never seen one trade improve a team's fortunes more, in 45 years. And guess what? It was for picks and prospects! But no, never do that, god no!

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02-13-2013, 09:44 AM
  #829
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Winning the cup and gettting two top picks was a neat pick too. A Sam Pollochian move...
Rebuilding while winning cups. We can only dream of that level.

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02-13-2013, 09:47 AM
  #830
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Trade of the decade. I have never seen one trade improve a team's fortunes more, in 45 years. And guess what? It was for picks and prospects! But no, never do that, god no!
guess you'd be ok with trading Price or Paccioretty for picks and prospects ?

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02-13-2013, 09:47 AM
  #831
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Trade of the decade. I have never seen one trade improve a team's fortunes more, in 45 years. And guess what? It was for picks and prospects! But no, never do that, god no!
Some of the worst trades are also for picks/prospects.

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02-13-2013, 09:47 AM
  #832
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The only antidote for your fatalism is staying home.
That is what I try to do as often as I can, given the massive retardedness I see every time I step out the door.

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02-13-2013, 09:47 AM
  #833
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So long as you are not giving up good youth/picks when getting guys like Kaberle then it doesn't put us further from the cup. How does keeping Spacek get us closer to the cup? You woudn't want us to spend the cap space anyways since that would increase the odds of us not ending up in the basement again. In fact if we can get any kind of a pick for Kaberle then it helps us long term. Kaberle will be gone this summer so he won't handicap us for our future window.
Dealing Kabs for a pick is fine (though his stock is sinking with each game he sits) but why didn't we simply do that exact deal last year with Spacek? Why did we cripple our budget with a big contract for a small asset? I don't dislike Kaberle as much as many here, but the choice to acquire him shows that management was still buying into the false hope of immediate gratification. We were terrible and going nowhere, and our response was to add an expensive player to make the euthanasia easier. Instead, Spacek -- who had value then -- could have gotten us something or become part of a package.

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02-13-2013, 09:54 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Dealing Kabs for a pick is fine (though his stock is sinking with each game he sits) but why didn't we simply do that exact deal last year with Spacek? Why did we cripple our budget with a big contract for a small asset? I don't dislike Kaberle as much as many here, but the choice to acquire him shows that management was still buying into the false hope of immediate gratification. We were terrible and going nowhere, and our response was to add an expensive player to make the euthanasia easier. Instead, Spacek -- who had value then -- could have gotten us something or become part of a package.
Why would his stock be sinking. If teams wanted him 2 weeks ago no reason they wouldn't want him now. If he has no value it's because teams fear his 4.25 mil 13-14 cap hit. If anythinmg his value will go up as teams get more desperate, heck Gomez and Campbell got traded with much worst contracts.

If Spacek had value then why did Carolina find no takers at the deadline despite shopping him?

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02-13-2013, 09:57 AM
  #835
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It's ironic that you say that. No point in making the playoffs if you can't compete.

For a long and sustainable run in the playoffs where we actually contend for the Cup, we need to improve our prospect depth. We need a few mediocre years to do that. Look at Galchenyuk. One more player of his calibre and it makes a huge difference. You just went from Desharnais and Gionta to Galchenyuk and, for example, Drouin in your top 6. That's a major difference.

You'll all cry now but you'll be screaming like a little girl in a few years if we do lose now. Book it.
They'll be screaming like little girls when we win the cup with Price, no.5, Gally, No. 3, and possibly Drouin, No. 4. And they'll put it down to luck, or something.

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:57 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Dealing Kabs for a pick is fine (though his stock is sinking with each game he sits) but why didn't we simply do that exact deal last year with Spacek? Why did we cripple our budget with a big contract for a small asset? I don't dislike Kaberle as much as many here, but the choice to acquire him shows that management was still buying into the false hope of immediate gratification. We were terrible and going nowhere, and our response was to add an expensive player to make the euthanasia easier. Instead, Spacek -- who had value then -- could have gotten us something or become part of a package.
Spacek's only redeeming quality at that time was that his contract was expiring. We weren't going to get anything for him. Carolina tried to trade him at the deadline but didn't find any takers. Kaberle could still get us something, and there was/is a decent chance of him rebounding enough to get a decent pick. Just look at what Zidlicky was traded for.

Our budget isn't crippled and he's gone this offseason. Gauthier was trying to kickstart the team for sure. But he did it without giving up picks/prospects so I'm fine with it. If he gave up a 2nd rounder I would've been upset. He traded one useless thing for another because there was a chance of getting some value. It only cost Molson some money it didn't stop us from trying to aquire anyone.

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02-13-2013, 10:00 AM
  #837
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
They'll be screaming like little girls when we win the cup with Price, no.5, Gally, No. 3, and possibly Drouin, No. 4. And they'll put it down to luck, or something.
And we would've done it without ever going into a season aiming for a top pick.

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:04 AM
  #838
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And we would've done it without ever going into a season aiming for a top pick.
no worries, they'll all come back saying they were "tank picks".

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:13 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why would his stock be sinking. If teams wanted him 2 weeks ago no reason they wouldn't want him now. If he has no value it's because teams fear his 4.25 mil 13-14 cap hit. If anythinmg his value will go up as teams get more desperate, heck Gomez and Campbell got traded with much worst contracts.

If Spacek had value then why did Carolina find no takers at the deadline despite shopping him?
Kaberle's perceived value to another team depreciates as his real value to our team depreciates. It's not like becoming a healthy scratch has made him more attractive as trade bait. That said, sure, he still has some value as an experienced D with specific skills. I didn't say he isn't marketable, only that we'll get less for him if he doesn't play.

As to Spacek, he obviously had enough value to be traded for Kaberle.

My only point was that here we are looking to trade Kabs for a prospect. Why didn't we have that forward-thinking vision last year with Spacek? I'm not saying we could have gotten a lot, but whatever we got - straight-up or in a package - would have left us with more cap space and somebody who offered at least a possibility for the future. Last year, Kaberle filled a hole in a boat that had already sunk. This year, when our boat is actually floating, that trade continues to weigh down our budget while giving us zero in return.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #840
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this is 2013 not 2011, the debate about Kaberle's value is over. He's untradeable.

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02-13-2013, 12:20 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
My only point was that here we are looking to trade Kabs for a prospect. Why didn't we have that forward-thinking vision last year with Spacek? I'm not saying we could have gotten a lot, but whatever we got - straight-up or in a package - would have left us with more cap space and somebody who offered at least a possibility for the future. Last year, Kaberle filled a hole in a boat that had already sunk. This year, when our boat is actually floating, that trade continues to weigh down our budget while giving us zero in return.
the Canes couldnt get anything for Spacek... nothing, niet, nada, zlitch, rien...

the only value Spacek had last season was a player no better than him on a worse contract.

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02-13-2013, 12:21 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
this is 2013 not 2011, the debate about Kaberle's value is over. He's untradeable.
If logic and measurable value was all we needed to end a debate, this entire board would've died years ago.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:21 PM
  #843
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this is 2013 not 2011, the debate about Kaberle's value is over. He's untradeable.
Thanks for filling us in Marc. What else are you working on?

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:24 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Kaberle's perceived value to another team depreciates as his real value to our team depreciates. It's not like becoming a healthy scratch has made him more attractive as trade bait. That said, sure, he still has some value as an experienced D with specific skills. I didn't say he isn't marketable, only that we'll get less for him if he doesn't play.

As to Spacek, he obviously had enough value to be traded for Kaberle.

My only point was that here we are looking to trade Kabs for a prospect. Why didn't we have that forward-thinking vision last year with Spacek? I'm not saying we could have gotten a lot, but whatever we got - straight-up or in a package - would have left us with more cap space and somebody who offered at least a possibility for the future. Last year, Kaberle filled a hole in a boat that had already sunk. This year, when our boat is actually floating, that trade continues to weigh down our budget while giving us zero in return.
As the season moves along teams become more agressive if they are in the playoff chase or falling out of it and want to get back. that's why players values are higher at the trade dealine than in the summer.

Plus injuries can pile up, his salary and cap hit drops with every game played.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:26 PM
  #845
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As the season moves along teams become more agressive if they are in the playoff chase or falling out of it and want to get back. that's why players values are higher at the trade dealine than in the summer.

Plus injuries can pile up, his salary and cap hit drops with every game played.
unfortunately, he isnt on the last year of his contract.

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:29 PM
  #846
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Thanks for filling us in Marc. What else are you working on?
As Lshap has skillfully pointed out, this guy has shown to the league he's a nightly healthy scratch, a year after being publicly lambasted by his former GM for not caring about his conditioning, all amid declining performance and having significant salary. This guy would clear waivers and has NO VALUE to his team or other teams.

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02-13-2013, 04:31 PM
  #847
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how many top 5 picks is required in your opinion ?
If you're lucky, two; if not, 3+

For example, half the forum has galchenyuk as an avatar. If he becomes jonathan toews or nicklas backstrom, we are probably a dark horse cup contender for nany years soon enough, bur not a favorite.

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02-13-2013, 04:41 PM
  #848
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As Lshap has skillfully pointed out, this guy has shown to the league he's a nightly healthy scratch, a year after being publicly lambasted by his former GM for not caring about his conditioning, all amid declining performance and having significant salary. This guy would clear waivers and has NO VALUE to his team or other teams.
6 games with about 12 mins a night is more than enough to condemn a player around here. No matter how well he played that doesn't matter because the agenda is already set and the mouth breathers already anointed him as a scapegoat.

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02-13-2013, 04:45 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
6 games with about 12 mins a night is more than enough to condemn a player around here. No matter how well he played that doesn't matter because the agenda is already set and the mouth breathers already anointed him as a scapegoat.
Just what you're doing only with Subban.

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02-13-2013, 04:54 PM
  #850
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If you're lucky, two; if not, 3+

For example, half the forum has galchenyuk as an avatar. If he becomes jonathan toews or nicklas backstrom, we are probably a dark horse cup contender for nany years soon enough, bur not a favorite.
3+ LOL

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