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Mason Raymond appreciation thread!

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #26
Proto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Yeah, the Ebbett/Schroeder thing was a big head scratcher for me. Obviously they were both battling for the spot, but the way everyone in our local media seemed to automatically declare Ebbett the winner almost by acclamation was weird. Not quite to "Botch hates Raymond" levels, but still.
To me it was clear they were going with Ebbett no matter what happened, and someone in the org got in Kuzma's ear to put that out there early. I think that sort of working the media is pretty common in Vancouver.

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02-13-2013, 12:57 PM
  #27
VanCity Millionaires
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Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
From goat to hero in a year.

Pretty boy Raymond must feel great now, especially when negotiating for his upcoming contract.
this might be a little nitpicky, but I would refrain from using goat in that context. Typically, in sports at least, goat refers to greatest of all time. I much prefer whipping boy, or at least throw the 'scape' in front of goat...

With that said, I completely agree, hated to celebrated.

I've always thought he would make it back after his back injury, just has taken some time.

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02-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #28
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I can honestly say that I was one of Raymonds biggest critics. Everytime he fell down on his own, I cursed and screemed at the tv. Always went wide, stopped and fell down. Boy has his game changed. Th difference in his confidence level from one year ago is a complete 180. I told myself at the beginning of the year to give him 10 games before I write him off completely. Well it's been 12 games and he has been the most exciting forward on the Canucks by far. May Ray has been generating something off of nothing almost every other shift.

I am officially on MayRay's bandwagon and hope nothing but the best for him this year and where ever he may end up next year. I would love for him to stick around but the way he is playing, he is in for a big raise. And with Burrows and Edler's new contracts kicking in next year, we may not be able to afford him.

Keep it up Mason.

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02-13-2013, 01:30 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanCity Millionaires View Post
this might be a little nitpicky, but I would refrain from using goat in that context. Typically, in sports at least, goat refers to greatest of all time. I much prefer whipping boy, or at least throw the 'scape' in front of goat...

With that said, I completely agree, hated to celebrated.

I've always thought he would make it back after his back injury, just has taken some time.
Are you implying that Raymond isn't the greatest of all time?







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02-13-2013, 01:39 PM
  #30
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02-13-2013, 01:39 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanCity Millionaires View Post
this might be a little nitpicky, but I would refrain from using goat in that context. Typically, in sports at least, goat refers to greatest of all time. I much prefer whipping boy, or at least throw the 'scape' in front of goat...

With that said, I completely agree, hated to celebrated.

I've always thought he would make it back after his back injury, just has taken some time.
If you're referring to the greatest of all time, it's "GOAT," not "goat."

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:49 PM
  #32
hackey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
From goat to hero in a year.

Pretty boy Raymond must feel great now, especially when negotiating for his upcoming contract.
Doubt he'll resign here
He's an UFA at the end of the year and will most likely sign with Calgary
He's from Camrose just outside of Calgary and that's where is wife is from
and where his off season home is

He will have a good year and then bank it with a good contract from the Flames

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02-13-2013, 04:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hackey View Post
Doubt he'll resign here
I don't doubt that the relationship is strained. Contract arbitration hearings will do that.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:20 PM
  #34
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raymond i think wouldnt be resign after this season. hes frustrating to watch

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02-13-2013, 04:48 PM
  #35
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I don't think he'll resign here, and not because of any strained relationship. He'll sign elsewhere because he'll get better term and salary. Canucks are already going to have to buy out or trade away a few players for compliance in the summer, and Raymond will either perform well and price himself out of the team's budget, or he won't keep it up and the team won't find it work keeping him over keeping someone else.

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02-13-2013, 07:24 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
I've been a pretty staunch supporter of Raymond all along. I said when he returned last year that I didn't have high expectations for him because I didn't think he would have the strength to contest pucks or get into the dangerous scoring positions.

This morning Jason Botchford was jumping on the Mason Raymond bandwagon after Ferarro openly praised him. Only a couple weeks ago Botch went on for 10 minutes or more about "cut down Raymond" - making a petty and nasty point about his cut down arbitration. That was the morning when Mike Gillis came on and was very prickly and called Rintoule and Botch "disaffected". I sent the show a text this morning asking for Botch to tell us more about "cut down Raymond". They chose not to read my text.

When I see a player with obvious skill, who has some gaps in his game, but has a great work ethic and plays very solid defensively, I'm likely to believe he will come around. Raymond's problems the last 2 years have been injury related. Last year it was recovery from back surgery, the previous year he was playing through an injured shoulder and broken hand. These injuries - not a lack of courage - made him a peripheral player. You could see all along that he was trying to work the boards, and trying to get to the slot, but was physically unable to do so. So many other laughed and scorned when he fell down - to me, falling down a lot was a symptom of trying to do things that his body was not able to do.

A full summer + extended off season to recover had made a world of difference for Raymond.
Our media are a real bunch of hacks. Well said though - he's never been one to shy away from the corners or grind it out along the wall, plus he works hard out there but injuries and a lack of strength hindered him over the past few years so it's great to see he's recovered some of that strength back. It's easy to laugh at him falling but the guy pretty much has to wear that back brace for the rest of his career, if not life. **** Boychuk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
To me it was clear they were going with Ebbett no matter what happened, and someone in the org got in Kuzma's ear to put that out there early. I think that sort of working the media is pretty common in Vancouver.
Or maybe it had more to do with Kuzma just not knowing anything about them on the Wolves?

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02-13-2013, 08:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by hackey View Post
Doubt he'll resign here
He's an UFA at the end of the year and will most likely sign with Calgary
He's from Camrose just outside of Calgary and that's where is wife is from
and where his off season home is

He will have a good year and then bank it with a good contract from the Flames
lol . Are you a flames fan or something? He leaves the only team hes ever known, a true contender, to go play for a team mired in mediocrity with no real hope of changing it anytime soon.

Cmon, you have to be some kind of serious Flames homer to honestly expect him to sign there. If he was a UFA , the big spot for him is in Pittsburg. Calgary would be one of the last places he plays.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:19 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
I don't think he'll resign here, and not because of any strained relationship. He'll sign elsewhere because he'll get better term and salary. Canucks are already going to have to buy out or trade away a few players for compliance in the summer, and Raymond will either perform well and price himself out of the team's budget, or he won't keep it up and the team won't find it work keeping him over keeping someone else.
Its a mistake to let Mason Raymond walk out of here. Gillis needs to re sign him for 4 million. Its what he is honesty worth when playing well.

4 mil for 4 years.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:33 PM
  #39
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3.5million for 4 years. Raymond at this point will be looking for job security.

Even when he plays well, you guys want him off the team. :

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02-13-2013, 08:42 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
3.5million for 4 years. Raymond at this point will be looking for job security.

Even when he plays well, you guys want him off the team. :
3.5 million is a lot for Raymond. I don't think we can be paying that much for a tweener 2nd/3rd line forward. At this point, I still wouldn't trust him with a permanent top-6 forward spot, and 3.5 million is too much for a 3rd line forward. Maybe something like 3 million or slightly less.

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02-13-2013, 09:36 PM
  #41
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Anyone notice that Raymond is on pace to basically tie his last healthy season's totals (on pace for 27G and 54PTS over 82 this year had 25G, 53PTS in his career year) - note he was hurt with his back last year and his shoulder+hand the year before.

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02-13-2013, 09:47 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Anyone notice that Raymond is on pace to basically tie his last healthy season's totals (on pace for 27G and 54PTS over 82 this year had 25G, 53PTS in his career year) - note he was hurt with his back last year and his shoulder+hand the year before.
A lot of people don't realize this or didn't know.

Even in my own frustration there were times where I'd forget that he hadn't been healthy in basically 2 years.

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:52 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
3.5 million is a lot for Raymond. I don't think we can be paying that much for a tweener 2nd/3rd line forward. At this point, I still wouldn't trust him with a permanent top-6 forward spot, and 3.5 million is too much for a 3rd line forward. Maybe something like 3 million or slightly less.
4million gets you a 45point 2nd line forward from the FA market. Raymond is only a 2nd line tweener on the Canucks. Anywhere else and he's a bonafide 2nd liner banking 40-50 points a year.

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02-13-2013, 09:57 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
4million gets you a 45point 2nd line forward from the FA market. Raymond is only a 2nd line tweener on the Canucks. Anywhere else and he's a bonafide 2nd liner banking 40-50 points a year.
With the new CBA, I don't know for sure how much a guy like Raymond will get, so we'll see, but I think that for us to pay him 3.5 million, it would probably be a mistake.

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02-14-2013, 12:03 AM
  #45
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All I can see is one of them rubbing the other one's chin with his forehead.

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02-14-2013, 12:05 AM
  #46
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Even taking recent play into consideration and the fact that I like Raymond, I would not pay Raymond anywhere near 3.5 million. If that means he walks, it's unfortunate, but it's what I would do (or trade him when his value's high)

I'd aim for somewhere closer to 3, regardless of what his actual market value is, on a take it or leave it offer.

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02-14-2013, 12:17 AM
  #47
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Even taking recent play into consideration and the fact that I like Raymond, I would not pay Raymond anywhere near 3.5 million. If that means he walks, it's unfortunate, but it's what I would do (or trade him when his value's high)

I'd aim for somewhere closer to 3, regardless of what his actual market value is, on a take it or leave it offer.
$3.5M is not a lot for a guy who can put up 25g seasons. I would hope that we could resign him for $3M, but if he keeps up the pace he is on this year, $3.5 is not over payment. If he falls off and then disappears in the playoffs, you probably let him walk, but a 27 year old forward who provides that kind of offense and is solid defensively is worth having.

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Old
02-14-2013, 12:26 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
$3.5M is not a lot for a guy who can put up 25g seasons. I would hope that we could resign him for $3M, but if he keeps up the pace he is on this year, $3.5 is not over payment. If he falls off and then disappears in the playoffs, you probably let him walk, but a 27 year old forward who provides that kind of offense and is solid defensively is worth having.
At some point, we're going to max out our cap, after which we'll need to start letting guys go to fit. I don't care if he's worth that value on the market or not, you can't afford to spend a big chunk of it on a guy like Raymond, and frankly, I would not rather lose one of our D or Hansen/Higgins in order to squeeze him in at that hit, personally.

Well I might, but it sounds risky and borderline to me. At the very least, if you sign him at that cap and it gets tight, I would hope that you would trade him at that cap.

Similarly, I'll gladly change my tune if/only if he has an uncharacteristically great playoffs.


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Old
02-14-2013, 12:31 AM
  #49
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At some point, we're going to max out our cap, after which we'll need to start letting guys go to fit. I don't care if he's worth that value on the market or not, you can't afford to spend a big chunk of it on a guy like Raymond, and frankly, I would not rather lose one of our D or Hansen/Higgins in order to squeeze him in at that hit, personally.

Well I might, but it sounds risky and borderline to me.

Similarly, I'll gladly change my tune if/only if he has an uncharacteristically great playoffs.
higgins vs raymond? Considering both get a raise I think Raymond is better at this point.

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02-14-2013, 12:33 AM
  #50
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higgins vs raymond? Considering both get a raise I think Raymond is better at this point.
Kind of a bit too what have you done for me lately there, no?

On average, I think Raymond is going to be able to demand much more money than Higgins is, while not necessarily being a much better player. Raymond would probably get more money than Hansen too, but there's absolutely no doubt who I'd rather take there especially.

Again, I guess I'm still just very skeptical and prefer Higgins in pressure situations.

If he plays like this permanently, of course I agree with you.


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