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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXII - Kessel Run Edition

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:20 PM
  #426
Taelin
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I think O'Reilly has more value than Turris did. Colorado's rumored asking price of a roster player and a prospect certainly isn't unreasonable.
Higgins + Gaunce?

Or is that an overpayment?

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02-13-2013, 01:20 PM
  #427
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If you want ROR you're going to have to trade something that hurts. I imagine Colorado would want something like Hansen + Jensen + 2nd.

If the Canucks still had Hodgson, I'd trade him and a 1st for ROR, but I wouldn't trade Kassian.

ROR would be perfect for the Canucks, but the only way I'd do it is if they were willing to take a deal that didn't involve Jensen. His upside (and caphit when he makes the squad) make him too valuable.

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02-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Higgins + Gaunce?

Or is that an overpayment?
Massive underpayment. Gaunce is a nothing prospect until he starts playing better -- I don't mean he sucks, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire. And an expiring UFA/solid veteran has far more value to the Canucks than a team like Colorado.

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02-13-2013, 01:29 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Higgins + Gaunce?

Or is that an overpayment?
I imagine they'd be interested in Gaunce. He projects to be a good replacement for O'Reilly in a couple years and his brother is already in their system. I doubt however that they'd be interested in Higgins as an upcoming UFA. I think the roster player would have to be Booth.

Wouldn't be surprised if someone beat that offer though. If he's really on the block I can't imagine there not being a ton of interest around the league.

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02-13-2013, 01:35 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Massive underpayment. Gaunce is a nothing prospect until he starts playing better -- I don't mean he sucks, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire. And an expiring UFA/solid veteran has far more value to the Canucks than a team like Colorado.
I think that's really shortsighted stat-only view of him as a prospect. Stefan Matteau would also be considered a nothing prospect by that criteria but he's clearly not and made the NHL. Looking strictly at numbers, Ryan O'Reilly was also a nothing prospect before he made the NHL.

Edit: That's not to say I think he's going to return us Ryan O'Reilly. I agree with you that we would need to give up something that hurts like Hansen + Jensen or similar.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:42 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I think that's really shortsighted stat-only view of him as a prospect. Stefan Matteau would also be considered a nothing prospect by that criteria but he's clearly not and made the NHL. Looking strictly at numbers, Ryan O'Reilly was also a nothing prospect before he made the NHL.

Edit: That's not to say I think he's going to return us Ryan O'Reilly. I agree with you that we would need to give up something that hurts like Hansen + Jensen or similar.
That was what I meant, really. I don't think he's actually a nothing prospect, but in terms of trade value he's pretty close. Colorado would have to be ridiculously high on him to consider the kind of drubbing they'd take from fans/media in a trade like that. GM's are pretty risk averse when it comes to that (understandably, as one bad/risky trade can cost a job).

ROR would really be exceptional in Vancouver, but I don't know what their team needs are aside from some secondary scoring.

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02-13-2013, 01:54 PM
  #432
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Anyone think Booth, Gaunce and a 2nd or 1st would be enough to get the deal done, or have we resoundingly rejected the notion that David Booth has trade value..

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02-13-2013, 01:54 PM
  #433
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Sorry i disagree with people overhyping jensen here. If you get ROR you have your 2/3rd line center thats a great fit with this team now and in the future.

I wouldn't deal kassian as his skillset is too rare and something you pay through the roof for if he hits the celing.

Jensen and Booth is a good deal for us for him or maybe a defensemen like ballard if they want a dman instead.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian/burrows
Raymond-Kesler-Kassian/burrows
Higgins-ROR-Hansen

Thats an impressive top 9

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02-13-2013, 01:55 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Anyone think Booth, Gaunce and a 2nd or 1st would be enough to get the deal done, or have we resoundingly rejected the notion that David Booth has trade value..
I think that's a reasonable offer. It's tough to imagine a team giving up a materially better roster player than Booth in return.

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02-13-2013, 01:58 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
Anyone think Booth, Gaunce and a 2nd or 1st would be enough to get the deal done, or have we resoundingly rejected the notion that David Booth has trade value..
David Booth is underrated.

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02-13-2013, 02:01 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I think that's a reasonable offer. It's tough to imagine a team giving up a materially better roster player than Booth in return.
Yeah, another decent-to-good scoring winger may not be exactly what the Avs want but Booth can acquit himself reasonably well in first line minutes and with all their injuries that's something they can use.

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David Booth is underrated.
I agree. The guy takes a beating around here for various reasons but I still see him as a mediocre first liner. And a team like the Avalanche shouldn't be turning up their nose at a chance to grab a first liner, a prospect and a pick..

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02-13-2013, 02:07 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by xtra View Post
Sorry i disagree with people overhyping jensen here. If you get ROR you have your 2/3rd line center thats a great fit with this team now and in the future.

I wouldn't deal kassian as his skillset is too rare and something you pay through the roof for if he hits the celing.

Jensen and Booth is a good deal for us for him or maybe a defensemen like ballard if they want a dman instead.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian/burrows
Raymond-Kesler-Kassian/burrows
Higgins-ROR-Hansen

Thats an impressive top 9
Him still being on a cheap contract next season only adds to this value.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:19 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I think that's a reasonable offer. It's tough to imagine a team giving up a materially better roster player than Booth in return.
But you have to think the deal would need to "hurt" a bit more for the Canucks than that. Maybe Booth + Schroeder + 1st, contingent on ROR signing a contract in the Booth range.

Would free the Canucks up to acquire a winger at the deadline, and the upgrade positionally/age/potential of ROR from Booth is worth the additional asset cost to acquire him.

If I'm Dave Nonis, ROR is a guy I'm doing everything in my power to acquire. He'd look good on that team.

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02-13-2013, 02:25 PM
  #439
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We have a pretty studly prospect in Jensen, and I would absolutely give him up in a deal for Ryan O'Reilly.

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02-13-2013, 02:28 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
But you have to think the deal would need to "hurt" a bit more for the Canucks than that. Maybe Booth + Schroeder + 1st, contingent on ROR signing a contract in the Booth range.
I might also hold O'Reilly in a slightly lower regard than most. I think he's a good player, someone who should be a tough minute eater for years to come, but he played almost exclusively with Landeskog last year and whenever I watched Colorado play, it seemed like he was the one driving the bus on that line.

Also, there probably isn't a lot of surplus value in O'Reilly if he's really asking for around $5 million per season.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:29 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
I'm starting to wonder about manny...maybe the team will make room by getting rid of him to fit another piece in via trade.
Gillis isn't going to just kick Manny's ass out the door. That isn't how he does business. Manny has a NTC so a trade is pretty much out of the question. Gillis won't waive a part of the 'leadership group' like Manny. And he's a UFA after this year anyway. They'll just ride it out, and manage his games/minutes as necessary for whatever he's got going on.

Whatever Cap Space you might get in the next couple months by dumping Malhotra...is pretty irrelevant when nobody wants to sign/re-sign here because the GM treats respected players in a difficult situation like complete trash.

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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Was thinking the same thing hence my question. But I don't see how we could possibly add salary after a trade let alone make a trade with the success the teams having and 2 players comig back within the end of the month. That alone is like making 2 huge trades. Would have made more sense if we were over the cap with them back so manny could be on ir because of an "injury"
So far as i can tell, cap-space isn't really an issue for us this year. It looks like we'll probably end up with just under ~$3.5M in prorated cap-space at the deadline. Kesler and Booth look like they never went on IR because we weren't at the upper limit anyway. So we've been essentially 'saving' a smidgeon of cap space every day this season and will probably continue to do so up to the deadline if the roster stays the same. And I don't see Gillis orchestrating any sort of shakeup bigger than that ~$3.5M prorated range...barring a Luongo deal (which is looking less and less likely), which would free up plenty of cap-space in itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtra View Post
ROR for booth and Jensen( probably need to add manny for the cap space)
This looks like the sort of ballpark i'd expect Colorado to listen to. When the rumour is 'roster player and a top-prospect', that's the sort of package that might get you in the conversation. But within the division in particular, we'd have to be outbidding Eastern teams...and that could be a tall order. ROR is the sort of player younger teams with stacked cupboards will go ga ga for and gamble big on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
There is no way that gets it done. Connauton is worthless and while Schroeder isn't worthless, he's not even worth the 1st we drafted him with just quite yet.
Yeah. Not a chance Colorado would even take that kind of offer remotely seriously.

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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Is the Turris trade a fair comparison to what Colorado could expect for ROR?
Not even the same ballpark. Turris was a small, disappointing 1-dimensional disgruntled former high pick who had done fairly close to nothing in the NHL prior to the Ottawa deal. With Turris, the word 'bust' was starting to get thrown around quite a bit. ROR is a very young gritty two-way center with a pair of good seasons already under his belt who has vastly exceeded expectations thus far in his career. Whole different league of trade if that's what ends up happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Massive underpayment. Gaunce is a nothing prospect until he starts playing better -- I don't mean he sucks, but he's not exactly lighting the world on fire. And an expiring UFA/solid veteran has far more value to the Canucks than a team like Colorado.
Yeah, Higgins is the sort of player who holds more value to us than he would to a team looking at a continued 'rebuild' there. And Gaunce isn't in the same echelon as the sort of 'top prospect' the Avs will want for ROR at all.


The other factor with ROR...the kid has been rumoured to have turned down a shorter contract at 'Duchene money' in that $3.5M range. He's probably looking for $5M at this point, which is too rich for this team if it's the money he's really after. And if it's a tactic to get himself out of Colorado and into a situation where he can be a top-6 center...well then he wouldn't be any too pleased to be here either.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:31 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
We have a pretty studly prospect in Jensen, and I would absolutely give him up in a deal for Ryan O'Reilly.
not if ROR wants 5 million a year. If he is simply asking for fair value in the 4 million range than that's fine but in no way should he make as much as Kesler or more than any of our Top 4 defenseman.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:33 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I might also hold O'Reilly in a slightly lower regard than most. I think he's a good player, someone who should be a tough minute eater for years to come, but he played almost exclusively with Landeskog last year and whenever I watched Colorado play, it seemed like he was the one driving the bus on that line.

Also, there probably isn't a lot of surplus value in O'Reilly if he's really asking for around $5 million per season.
That's why I wouldn't trade Jensen for him, or acquire him if he wanted more than 4-ish a year. ROR has a few good years under his belt though -- more than most 22 year olds.

He makes a lot of sense for a team like Toronto, though, where he could immediately slide into a Top 6 role.

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02-13-2013, 02:38 PM
  #444
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Anyone who thinks we can get ROR without a massive overpayment is delusional. Notice how the Avs are targeting the East Coast based teams? Seems like they don't want to play him often so a Western team seems out of the picture, let alone a team in the same division.

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02-13-2013, 02:50 PM
  #445
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My cousin plays for the Avs. Says more going on there than just money.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:52 PM
  #446
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My cousin plays for the Avs. Says more going on there than just money.
Cool, legit info! Does he say how big of a d-bag SOB is? Wait, is it SOB??

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02-13-2013, 02:55 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Anyone who thinks we can get ROR without a massive overpayment is delusional. Notice how the Avs are targeting the East Coast based teams? Seems like they don't want to play him often so a Western team seems out of the picture, let alone a team in the same division.
The Avs have made deals with Calgary in the past, but I agree it's highly unlikely that they would focus on a trade with Vancouver for anything short than an overpayment.

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02-13-2013, 02:56 PM
  #448
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Does he say how big of a d-bag SOB is?
hahah, it was implied. I don't want to get him trouble by saying anymore.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:58 PM
  #449
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I would probably do Booth, Jensen and a 2nd for RoR, pending a contract.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:00 PM
  #450
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The Avs have made deals with Calgary in the past
Consider the reasons why teams would prefer dealing outside the conference. To avoid playing against him. But on a team like Calgary, meh.....

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