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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade? (Part 2)

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:37 PM
  #76
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
And that is why it is highly improbable that ROR will ever end up in Toronto.
I believe Nonis can find a way if he wants

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02-13-2013, 02:37 PM
  #77
sansabri
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i dunno... Rundblad at the time was seen as a top prospect.

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02-13-2013, 02:38 PM
  #78
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I have a beef with the Hockey Prospectus article thats constantly floated around here. The arguments it uses to justify why RoR is one of the best defensive centers in the league hold merit but the argument it uses to convince readers that RoR is one of the best/will be one of the best playmakers in the league is bullocks.

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According to the refined version of our new statistic "passes", which is meant to estimate how many times a player has set up a shot on goal, O'Reilly was the league's 12th best playmaker in the league last season. He finished the season with 292 passes, or 3.6 passes per game, and 1.55 passes for every shot of his own, both roughly equivalent to Pavel Datsyuk—that's the second time we've favorably compared the two!
So this new and refined version of a statistic called "passes" estimates how many times a player has set up a goal huh. I don't buy it. If RoR really drove offensive play the way the article suggests then he would have had more than 34 GvAs last season. If he really was the offensive catalyst that article tries to persuade readers he really is than he simply would be one of the best player in the league, right up there with the Pavel Datsyuk's of the league. Its unforeseen to have a guy play so well defensively and so smart and efficiently offensively as well. All this at 20.5 years of age. Give the man 7M AAV if thats what we could expect from him year-in and year-out.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:38 PM
  #79
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isn't Grabovski a UFA next year...
nope not even close

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02-13-2013, 02:38 PM
  #80
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There's not even a shred of truth behind it, it's entirely fictitious...
So nothing in that article is true. I have yet to see one avs fan say what about the article is false only la,bast the reporter and claim its false but at least you are saying that it is a fictitious piece with only misinformation in it designed to make the avs front office look silly? I don't get it.

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02-13-2013, 02:39 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
I believe Nonis can find a way if he wants
Leafs fans are trying to hard to rationalize.

What possible reason do the Avs have to take over 25 year old players, players with significant contracts, or pending UFAs.

It does not take a high degree of intelligence to realize that the Avs are never going to make such moves.

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02-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #82
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nope not even close
nevermind. 29 years old getting $5.5M... yeah, i can see the Avs jumping all over that.

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02-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #83
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Yes, clearly his John-Michael Liles-type first year in the league is worthy of an elite player coming back.

Best of luck.
If Gardiner or Rielly are just a John-Michael Liles-type than RoR is just a Marcel Goc-type. If you're going to knock our guys down a peg to suit your liking then at least be consistent and do it to your own player. Gardiner is better than Liles, hands down, and all in just his first season in the pros.

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02-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
Please understand this... please....

The AVS do not want to pay ROR more than around $3.5m.

WHY WOULD THEY ACQUIRE GRABOVSKI WHO MAKES $5.75M!!?!?!??!?!?!??
5.5 actually

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02-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
So this new and refined version of a statistic called "passes" estimates how many times a player has set up a goal huh. I don't buy it. If RoR really drove offensive play the way the article suggests then he would have had more than 34 GvAs last season. If he really was the offensive catalyst that article tries to persuade readers he really is than he simply would be one of the best player in the league, right up there with the Pavel Datsyuk's of the league. Its unforeseen to have a guy play so well defensively and so smart and efficiently offensively as well. All this at 20.5 years of age. Give the man 7M AAV if thats what we could expect from him year-in and year-out.
If someone passes to the opposition, that is not a giveaway. Avs learned that thanks to Hunwick who seemingly had 4-5 giveaways a game but would only have 1-2 giveaways because the puck has to be stolen off your stick (or in same way forcing the player to lose control and cough it up).

Also, he was just as good as Datsyuk defensively last season... since you brought him up.

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Originally Posted by Hatter View Post
So nothing in that article is true. I have yet to see one avs fan say what about the article is false only la,bast the reporter and claim its false but at least you are saying that it is a fictitious piece with only misinformation in it designed to make the avs front office look silly? I don't get it.
He wrote up an article where he hypothesized how the Avs management were responding to O'Reilly's contract demands. He has no inside knowledge, quotes, facts or first hand reports to dictate how true his statements actually are.

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02-13-2013, 02:41 PM
  #86
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Interesting. One player has shown the ability to take over games as a rookie, the other hasn't.

If Leafs didn't have Rielly, Gardiner would be no different from Rielly in the sense that he is immovable.
I probably have watched close to 70 % of the NHL games Gardiner has played in during his career. I just can't fathom how anyone can get the idea that Gardiner is more proven than ROR.... And ROR certainly takes games over. I feel you have not watched him play last year at all. He swings games with his defensive plays but he had huge offensive performances as well. I just don't get how you can get to such a conclusion if you watched both players play.

Gardiner is a difference maker offensively. I will never deny that. He has huge offensive upside. But I am really not so sure that the defensive side ever catches up. that is the big gamble with him right now. Add his concussion and the Avs should just stay away...


@ Petes: You might want to let Panthers and Avs fans decide what is fair. They have watched there players more than you probably have.
ROR is getting criminally underrated by Leafs fans in her in order to justify a certain kind of proposal. And it is maddening once again. Avs fans have it bad enough right now with EJ and Landeskog + ( a crapload of other guys) out , the ROR situation, our coach and management. This is one nightmare season for us. We really don't need this now....

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02-13-2013, 02:42 PM
  #87
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Good luck with that.

I would start some Gardiner for Crosby proposals to gauge the level of interest.
Exaggerate much? Obviously Gardiner for Crosby isn't going to happen anytime soon, and it would cost the Leafs a lot more than they can realistically give up to get him.

Now...Gardiner + more for maybe a guy like M. Richards might be more feasible in the future(if the right situations occur). Depending on if the Kings continue to struggle, and Richards doesn't produce and the Kings want to remove salary and reload in other areas of their lineup.

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I know that another Leafs' poster indicated that Reilly likely will be on the level of Lidstrom earlier on this board, so the Leafs should be set.
He's a great prospect, needs time to develop, and might very well end up being the best defenseman drafted in his class, but not Lidstrom.

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02-13-2013, 02:42 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
5.5 actually
Well, first of all we were both wrong.

He's making $6M of actual money for this year and 2 more years after that.

The Avs are cheap, they won't touch that.

Second, as if the difference between $5.5 or $5.75M really matters much lol

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02-13-2013, 02:43 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Finally something that makes sense. Thank you. Gardiner is just way too risky to bet ROR on. Kulikov makes way more sense.

I would probably take that deal but certainly would inquire if there is a remote chance of Bjugstad being available with ROR taking his spot and what we would have to add...

ROR would feel right at hom with all the Ex-Avs playing for you.

@ Pete: stop being bitter about someone offering a proposal that really makes sense for both teams. Don't really think that Isles fans were or would be proposing the trades Millbury made....
Because the Panthers are playing so inconsistently and the deadline is still awhile away and avs want to resolve this sooner rather than later i could see weiss and kuli going over for o'reilly and a 2nd or 3rd lets say but thats with the condition that the panthers have no shot this season-I dont think the timing is there yet for that kind of deal.

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02-13-2013, 02:43 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
If someone passes to the opposition, that is not a giveaway. Avs learned that thanks to Hunwick who seemingly had 4-5 giveaways a game but would only have 1-2 giveaways because the puck has to be stolen off your stick (or in same way forcing the player to lose control and cough it up).

Also, he was just as good as Datsyuk defensively last season... since you brought him up.
I'm not disputing that. I want to know if he can really be a guy teams can depend on offensively as well. I just found it hard to believe that a guy so young and refined defensively could be so good offensively as well and only have 34 GvAs. Thats unreal. Thats why I don't buy that he drives the offense like the article suggest. If you drive the offense the puck is usually on your stick and when its usually on your stick your GvA stat is gonna be inflated.

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02-13-2013, 02:44 PM
  #91
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If the Avs really wanted to dish out $6M or actual money for the next 3 years they would give most of that to ROR and KEEP the remaining $ left over.

No chance they'd want Grabbo, at 29, making $6M of actual money ($5.5M cap). NO CHANCE.

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02-13-2013, 02:44 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
And Biggs who will top out as a 3rd liner as main prospect in return for ROR? Kind of insulting? Would you like Heard + O'Byrne for Gardiner?
Ya did not think so
We had Mitch Heard in camp and let him walk away, he's nothing. Tyler Biggs is probably the third best forward for Oshawa with Jenner/Laughton ahead, but his size makes him a lock for a roster. Mitch Heard will be unHeard of in 2 years.
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
If Gardiner or Rielly are just a John-Michael Liles-type than RoR is just a Marcel Goc-type. If you're going to knock our guys down a peg to suit your liking then at least be consistent and do it to your own player. Gardiner is better than Liles, hands down, and all in just his first season in the pros.
I love how we have Liles and are talking about him as a buyout candidate. Liles was 170 pounds soaking wet as a rookie, how can you even begin to compare him to Gardiner/Rielly. Gardiner and Rielly would be our two best skaters if they were playing for us right now.

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02-13-2013, 02:45 PM
  #93
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Now...Gardiner + more for maybe a guy like M. Richards might be more feasible in the future(if the right situations occur). Depending on if the Kings continue to struggle, and Richards doesn't produce and the Kings want to remove salary and reload in other areas of their lineup.
hold up. Richards is the marquee player you're thinking of? the same guy who got 44 pts. on a stacked team last season? the same guy who has 6 pts and is a -5 this season?

yet O'Reilly who was the points leader for his own crappy team is overvalued?

cray-cray.

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02-13-2013, 02:46 PM
  #94
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That just is not a high price. It really is not. ROR would push Bozak to 3rd line center and Avs have no use for Grabo. It would be a spit into every Avs fans face if you trade ROR because you can't get him to sign a contract and than acquire Grabo and his 5.5 M contract.

And Biggs who will top out as a 3rd liner as main prospect in return for ROR? Kind of insulting? Would you like Heard + O'Byrne for Gardiner?
Ya did not think so
no he wouldn't Bozak Kessel have to nuch chemistry ROR is better but we don't know if he'd click with Kessel Bozak does

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02-13-2013, 02:46 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
If the Avs really wanted to dish out $6M or actual money for the next 3 years they would give most of that to ROR and KEEP the remaining $ left over.

No chance they'd want Grabbo, at 29, making $6M of actual money ($5.5M cap). NO CHANCE.
Yeah Grabovski is a year or so away from being one of the worst contracts in hockey. With that being said, he's serviceable and at least he's not going to go completely Horcoff on us.

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02-13-2013, 02:46 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I'm not disputing that. I want to know if he can really be a guy teams can depend on offensively as well. I just found it hard to believe that a guy so young and refined defensively could be so good offensively as well and only have 34 GvAs. Thats unreal. Thats why I don't buy that he drives the offense like the article suggest. If you drive the offense the puck is usually on your stick and when its usually on your stick your GvA stat is gonna be inflated.
Your curiosity is definitely founded, it amazes Avs fans how intelligent he is through the neutral zone as well. One minute you'll see him steal the puck the next he carries it through the neutral zone and starts a cycle or gets a shot on net or finds Landeskog streaking down the wing.

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02-13-2013, 02:46 PM
  #97
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If its a deal with the Leafs then Bozak is going the other way unless the Leafs trade Grabo first.

Kadri is a lock for the 2nd line spot no matter what. 22 years old and is already our best/2nd best offensive contributor.

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02-13-2013, 02:47 PM
  #98
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Gardiner + 4th for ROR

seems fair

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02-13-2013, 02:47 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
no he wouldn't Bozak Kessel have to nuch chemistry ROR is better but we don't know if he'd click with Kessel Bozak does
Stop it, lol.

ROR would make Tyler Bozak forgotten.

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02-13-2013, 02:47 PM
  #100
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hold up. Richards is the marquee player you're thinking of? the same guy who got 44 pts. on a stacked team last season? the same guy who has 6 pts and is a -5 this season?

yet O'Reilly who was the points leader for his own crappy team is overvalued?

cray-cray.
I agree 100%.

ROR has much more value than Richards IMO.

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