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Old
02-13-2013, 08:13 AM
  #526
tigermask48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
frattin is the ovious answer but i think Nikolai Kulemin could also fit the bill. He does play a 200 foot game .
The rumors over the summer were DL has a man crush on Frattin going back to his time at ND... Kulemin was involved in one of the alleged offers and DL responded with Frattin, Burke balked and it fell apart from there.

I think the deal was reported as something like Kulemin and a draft pick for Bernier and a draft pick.

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02-13-2013, 10:10 AM
  #527
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Lebrun remarked offhandedly that, seeing that failing to find a capable starting goalie has damned Columbus for so long, it would be wise for Jarmo Kekalainen to inquire about Bernier.

Were Columbus to ask, I would love to get Nick Foligno on this team.

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02-13-2013, 10:15 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
frattin is the ovious answer but i think Nikolai Kulemin could also fit the bill. He does play a 200 foot game .
I'd support Kulemin coming here as well, but I'd want more back with him for Bernier. He's not a 30 goal guy anymore.

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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post

And yes, obviously Penner has been a load of crap this season, but he did have a good game against St. Louis. If the guy finishes the shortened season with 15-20-35, though, do you really see us not resigning him, even at a two, three year deal?
I know you're talking in hypotheticals here, but for him to do that he'd need to go 15-19-34 in 37 games. He's NEVER scored at that pace before in his career. That's a 0.92 PPG pace. The best he ever had was 0.77 in 2009-2010.

Right now I'd be happy if he could stay in the line up, nevermind score at almost a point per game.

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02-13-2013, 10:16 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Ollie Weeks View Post
Lebrun remarked offhandedly that, seeing that failing to find a capable starting goalie has damned Columbus for so long, it would be wise for Jarmo Kekalainen to inquire about Bernier.

Were Columbus to ask, I would love to get Nick Foligno on this team.
Bernier for JMFJ?

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02-13-2013, 10:24 AM
  #530
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Bernier for JMFJ?
Hah, imagine?

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02-13-2013, 11:12 AM
  #531
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Bernier for our first rounder back! Nobody wants JJ and his headfakes back.

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02-13-2013, 11:13 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Ollie Weeks View Post
Cmon, the guy was not on a clear cut break. He was going to be overtaken and he knew it. His pass to Stoll was not effective, but it was better than the shot he wasn't going to get off.

He had a very effective game last against St. Louis (only his 4th of the season). He'll stay in the lineup if they keep rolling the 4 centres like they have been. It effectively limits his competition to Brad Richardson, who brings almost nothing to the table at this stage.

I could see Gagne coming back for another year if he stays healthy and remains semi productive, but Penner is a much longer shot.
Im not trying to pile on but I completely disagree regarding the play. The defender started out after penner but pulled up to defend the rebound. There were two defenders playing stoll. One spread out on the ice and one reset to clear stoll out or lock up the stick. Penner could have either chose to shoot or walk right in on elliot. I just rewatched the Game last night.

Fact is that st.louis showed Penner no respect all night and were givimg him nothing but space on the ice.

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02-13-2013, 11:17 AM
  #533
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Originally Posted by cheap77 View Post
Bernier for our first rounder back! Nobody wants JJ and his headfakes back.
LOL. Jj has been nothing short of amazing since joining the bj's. In regards to headfakes, There is this dman named drew that does them quite a bit. The dman also hasnt been half the player jack has been this year.

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02-13-2013, 01:40 PM
  #534
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LOL. Jj has been nothing short of amazing since joining the bj's. In regards to headfakes, There is this dman named drew that does them quite a bit. The dman also hasnt been half the player jack has been this year.
He has been solid. Doughty wasn't amazing in the playoff run, but he came pretty damn close on occasion. I will always admire Johnson's work ethic and team first attitude, but despite all of his physical prowess he will never be a player to match Doughty.

Johnson may have a longer career because he takes care of himself, but in their primes I don't think he compares to Doughty.

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02-13-2013, 02:28 PM
  #535
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LOL. Jj has been nothing short of amazing since joining the bj's. In regards to headfakes, There is this dman named drew that does them quite a bit. The dman also hasnt been half the player jack has been this year.
The stats disagree with you. Read this post

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=15

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02-13-2013, 02:39 PM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
The rumors over the summer were DL has a man crush on Frattin going back to his time at ND... Kulemin was involved in one of the alleged offers and DL responded with Frattin, Burke balked and it fell apart from there.

I think the deal was reported as something like Kulemin and a draft pick for Bernier and a draft pick.
Yes i totally agree dl has a man crush on Frattin and i also remembered Kulemin as a possiblity thats why i brought him up.

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02-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I'd support Kulemin coming here as well, but I'd want more back with him for Bernier. He's not a 30 goal guy anymore.
.
I would be happy with a 2nd and him but curious what u think /want

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02-13-2013, 02:53 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
The stats disagree with you. Read this post

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=15
Ouch. That could explain the +/- JMFJ's had over his career.

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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I would be happy with a 2nd and him but curious what u think /want
I was thinking along those lines as well, but the issue with Kulemin is he carries a $2+ million price tag but has only scored 8 goals in 83 games since his 30 goal season. I think he can rebound, and point wise he's doing ok, but LA needs some goals and Kulemin's not doing that well.

Frattin meanwhile has decent size, a better contract and can score. He seems like a better fit for what we need.

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02-13-2013, 03:00 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Ouch. That could explain the +/- JMFJ's had over his career.



I was thinking along those lines as well, but the issue with Kulemin is he carries a $2+ million price tag but has only scored 8 goals in 83 games since his 30 goal season. I think he can rebound, and point wise he's doing ok, but LA needs some goals and Kulemin's not doing that well.

Frattin meanwhile has decent size, a better contract and can score. He seems like a better fit for what we need.
I agree we need more goals but he would be a upgrade for the 3rd line rw for now. Cant be much worse then what we re getting from lewis offensive wise. Yes i know hes not there for offense but something every now and then is needed from that 3rd line.

Frattin just hit the ir but i really think the time for us to get him has passed. Hes played his way on to leaf nations no trade list i think.

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02-13-2013, 03:06 PM
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
The stats disagree with you. Read this post

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=15
It's amazing how much Johnson drags his teammates down, isn't it? Derek Zona did an analysis of Johnson's effect on all the Kings' defenseman right around the time of trade last year, and the exact same trends were apparent. It's not a fluke. If someone has time to link the article, that would be awesome.

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02-13-2013, 03:17 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
It's amazing how much Johnson drags his teammates down, isn't it? Derek Zona did an analysis of Johnson's effect on all the Kings' defenseman right around the time of trade last year, and the exact same trends were apparent. It's not a fluke. If someone has time to link the article, that would be awesome.
This 1?

http://www.battleofcali.com/2011/8/2...he-jmfj-effect

if not this one?

http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/23...-jack-johnson/

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02-13-2013, 03:20 PM
  #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I agree we need more goals but he would be a upgrade for the 3rd line rw for now. Cant be much worse then what we re getting from lewis offensive wise. Yes i know hes not there for offense but something every now and then is needed from that 3rd line.

Frattin just hit the ir but i really think the time for us to get him has passed. Hes played his way on to leaf nations no trade list i think.
But wouldn't Frattin be an upgrade on the 3rd line as well?

I do think you are right though, we won't be getting Frattin, unless he cools off considerably. I also doubt Toronto is going to make a move for a goalie at all until Reimer cools off. I know he's on the IR for a week as well now, but he was posting a save percentage of like 930 before he went down, so you got to think Toronto will see if he can maintain that before going elsewhere.

Realistically, I think Bernier won't land in Toronto when all is said and done. DL MAY deal him within the conference, but I'd imagine an Easte Confrence team makes more sense. New Jersey will always be in the mix due to the age of their goalies, and with the way Washington is going they could be a target. I'm not sure what Buffalo is doing with Miller (or if they think Enroth is the future) and Florida has been burying Markstrom for a while when you'd think he'd up on the roster by now, so not sure if they are clinging to him as the future or not. All have their pros and cons.

I still think it'll be New Jersey where he goes, even though Broduer and Hedberg are there next season as well. New Jersey needs something and they don't have any starter claiber players in the system, nor do they really have the time to develop one, so getting an NHL ready player is ideal. I don't expect any deal to go down until the tarde deadline or the off-season personally (unless we get into real trouble and are pressured into a deal due to injuries, rick of missing the playoffs, etc.). As such I could see a deal involving Matteau for Bernier. Matteau is a DL/DS type guy for sure, and would bring some grit and offensive upside to the 3rd/4th line.

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02-13-2013, 03:29 PM
  #543
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But wouldn't Frattin be an upgrade on the 3rd line as well?

I do think you are right though, we won't be getting Frattin, unless he cools off considerably. I also doubt Toronto is going to make a move for a goalie at all until Reimer cools off. I know he's on the IR for a week as well now, but he was posting a save percentage of like 930 before he went down, so you got to think Toronto will see if he can maintain that before going elsewhere.

Realistically, I think Bernier won't land in Toronto when all is said and done. DL MAY deal him within the conference, but I'd imagine an Easte Confrence team makes more sense. New Jersey will always be in the mix due to the age of their goalies, and with the way Washington is going they could be a target. I'm not sure what Buffalo is doing with Miller (or if they think Enroth is the future) and Florida has been burying Markstrom for a while when you'd think he'd up on the roster by now, so not sure if they are clinging to him as the future or not. All have their pros and cons.

I still think it'll be New Jersey where he goes, even though Broduer and Hedberg are there next season as well. New Jersey needs something and they don't have any starter claiber players in the system, nor do they really have the time to develop one, so getting an NHL ready player is ideal. I don't expect any deal to go down until the tarde deadline or the off-season personally (unless we get into real trouble and are pressured into a deal due to injuries, rick of missing the playoffs, etc.). As such I could see a deal involving Matteau for Bernier. Matteau is a DL/DS type guy for sure, and would bring some grit and offensive upside to the 3rd/4th line.

I totally agree he would be a upgrade to the 3rd line but no sence mentioning it when hes not going to be traded. I do agree i dont see a la toronto trade till at least the deadline even then reimer would have to cool off for sure. I actually hope not to trade him there if possible.

I think with columbus having a new gm and looking at there goalies Its a postion they need to upgrade as well. Maybe a chance to get our frist back isnt totally out of the question.

I think bufflao is also a possibility as i ve seen Enorth in alot of trade offers. Not sure who would be the best to target there but they do need to do something with there goalies, Maybe they want to trade miller and go younger with bernier. not sure but i think this is the best spot for the deal.

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02-13-2013, 03:38 PM
  #544
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Columbus could be an option I agree, I guess it comes down to if DL wants to deal Bernier in the conference or not. If he did, you'd think Columbus would be an ideal market, as they aren't a divisional rival so less chance he burns us.

I don't see us moving him for a draft pick though, not unless it comes with a player as well, or is part of a bigger deal. We are the defending Stanley Cup champions, it doesn't make much sense to deal a key asset for something that can't help us this year. Which makes me wonder if we wouldn't target a veteran backup as part of any deal if we do one before or at the trade deadline.

i do think though that DL is likely looking for a deal that gives us sore offensive depth, but also a UFA to be defenseman that he can plug into the line up to fill some of the long-term injury gaps (or someone signed past this year if the plan is to let Scuds walk after the season).

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02-13-2013, 03:48 PM
  #545
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Columbus could be an option I agree, I guess it comes down to if DL wants to deal Bernier in the conference or not. If he did, you'd think Columbus would be an ideal market, as they aren't a divisional rival so less chance he burns us.

I don't see us moving him for a draft pick though, not unless it comes with a player as well, or is part of a bigger deal. We are the defending Stanley Cup champions, it doesn't make much sense to deal a key asset for something that can't help us this year. Which makes me wonder if we wouldn't target a veteran backup as part of any deal if we do one before or at the trade deadline.

i do think though that DL is likely looking for a deal that gives us sore offensive depth, but also a UFA to be defenseman that he can plug into the line up to fill some of the long-term injury gaps (or someone signed past this year if the plan is to let Scuds walk after the season).
I dont see a draft pick as the only thing coming back I see a trade like young player/high prospect winger a goalie and a pick for bernier + penner /richardson/ maybe nolan A first that can be used to get a scorer at the deadline is needed imo. We need it to flip to flames + for iggy sarich or another team that is out of it.

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02-13-2013, 03:53 PM
  #546
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Honestly, I think if we did a deal for Iggy, they'd likely want Bernier as part of the package.

Kipper is a UFA after next year and they have nothing behind him. Irving's done nothing (though i also don't think he's been given enough of a chance at the NHL level either) and the best they have after him is Joni Ortio and Jon Gillies, and Ortio is in Europe after an unsuccessful pro debut while Gillies is likely 3-5 years away from even reaching the NHL.

Bernier + for Iggy is something that wouldn't shock me at all.

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02-13-2013, 03:55 PM
  #547
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Honestly, I think if we did a deal for Iggy, they'd likely want Bernier as part of the package.

Kipper is a UFA after next year and they have nothing behind him. Irving's done nothing (though i also don't think he's been given enough of a chance at the NHL level either) and the best they have after him is Joni Ortio and Jon Gillies, and Ortio is in Europe after an unsuccessful pro debut while Gillies is likely 3-5 years away from even reaching the NHL.

Bernier + for Iggy is something that wouldn't shock me at all.
It worked for me on NHL 13 and brought me a couple more Stanley Cups

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02-13-2013, 04:24 PM
  #548
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It would make things tons easier if they were interested. The only reason i say we need the first is its a starting point in everything i ve read the flames would want, If we dont have it we wont be able to trade for him.

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02-13-2013, 04:42 PM
  #549
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There's another one on SBNation, I think one of the Oilers blog writers did it. It's just fantastic, especially so because it's so impartial...

Here's the Derek Zona one that I think Chaz was referring to:
http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24...on-is-not-good


Last edited by tigermask48: 02-13-2013 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Found it!
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02-13-2013, 05:12 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
There's another one on SBNation, I think one of the Oilers blog writers did it. It's just fantastic, especially so because it's so impartial...

Here's the Derek Zona one that I think Chaz was referring to:
http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24...on-is-not-good
Quote:
Skeptical of Kelly's take? Kings' General Manager Dean Lombardi feels the same way:

"Jack was a thoroughbred out there. But he was all over the place. He was awful as a hockey player. As an athlete, you’re going, wow! Look at the way he skates, shoots, he can pass. But he had no idea where he was going. At times, he was playing forward at Michigan. You had no idea what position he was playing. But he had always been the star and he always got his numbers. Then he turns pro and for the first time, we’re telling him ‘whoa, just make the first pass and learn to play in your own end.’ How about making a read in your own end about the right guy to pick up? He was awful."
Wow, I had never seen that quote from Dean before. That Red Berenson is an awesome coach though.

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