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Rinaldo, Carcillo or Downie?

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Old
02-13-2013, 12:07 PM
  #26
Qyburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
They're all so different.

Rinaldo has no upside. He is what he is.

Downie was a 1st round pick. Meant to be skillful, but is crazy at times.

Carcillo was a 3rd rounder I think with good skill, but is more likely to be CarBomb than Carcillo.

Carcillo always entertained me the most. I'm GOING WITH CARBOMB!
Though Downie was always very good at it, Carcillo ree-heeeeeally gets under people's skin. He's a professional hockey troll and it's a very envious quality to have.

Rinaldo's all potential, and after last night things look pretty bright. It should be fun to watch how high he can get on this list.

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02-13-2013, 12:10 PM
  #27
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Well he thought wrong and mismanged an asset.....people wanting to give Holmgren a mulligan seem more to do so b/c they didn't like Carle. Not everybody is being an apologist for this reason but it exists. When all is said and done he miscalculated and didn't think things through enough b/c he felt Carle wasn't a priority. Having nothing to show for an asset considering all the other assets that were involved (minus Eminger) is why we keep having farm problems..not the entire reason but part of it ..at least in this instance.
I think you're being unrealistic. We were a contender last year, and you don't trade one of your top defenders on a Cup run just so you don't lose him via Free Agency. Also, you don't re-sign Carle to that insane contract when you're already paying other players to be 2/3 tweeners on your defense.

Much greater players have gotten to Free Agency than Matt Carle. Homer tried to improve the defense rather than accept mediocrity at ludicrous prices.

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02-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #28
FreshPerspective
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
I think you're being unrealistic. We were a contender last year, and you don't trade one of your top defenders on a Cup run just so you don't lose him via Free Agency. Also, you don't re-sign Carle to that insane contract when you're already paying other players to be 2/3 tweeners on your defense.

Much greater players have gotten to Free Agency than Matt Carle. Homer tried to improve the defense rather than accept mediocrity at ludicrous prices.
I don't consider it unrealistic for Holmgren to have handled an asset much better than he did. Meltzer had a commentary on it as well when it happened and if I recall correctly pretty much said Holmgren didn't do his due dilligence for various reasons..not all of them similar to my points but the basic premise was that he should have handled that situation much better and more proactively.

Again Holmgren allowed outside events to dictate the outcome too much...and it wasn't an ideal outcome IMO. Maybe for some it was reasonable within the context they understand but I don't agree.

Here is Meltzer's reasoning

Quote:
I do not blame the Flyers for trying to go all out to sign Zach Parise and/or Ryan Suter, nor do I blame them for ultimately declining to pay Matt Carle a cap hit of $5.5 million per season over six seasons. Where I do think the Flyers deserve to be second-guessed right now is in misreading the free agent market in the first place.


.....As it turned out, neither the Flyers nor the Penguins were on the short-list of teams that Parise and Suter considered before signing with Minnesota. Their agents simply used the competing offers from the Atlantic Division archrivals as leverage to extract as much as they could from the teams for whom their clients actually wanted to play.

In the meantime, while the Flyers and Penguins waited for three-plus days for Suter and Parise to announce their decision, the rest of the league picked apart most of an already thin unrestricted free agent crop until there was very little left.

Strictly as a hockey decision, trying to upgrade from Carle to Suter made sense. Suter is the better player. As a business decision, however, it was foolish. Given a choice of one contract or the other, it would have made more sense to commit early to Carle and overpay by even a million dollars for five years than to pay Suter like a franchise player for the next decade.

By waiting so long on the Suter longshot, the Flyers made it abundantly clear to Carle that re-signing him was not a top priority. So, in turn, any shot the Flyers may once have had at getting even a slight hometown discount in the end (such as Braydon Coburn provided when re-upping for four years rather than testing the market this summer and collecting an extra $500,000 to $750,000 per season) was gone.

....In the weeks leading up to the free agency period, Holmgren sounded so confident in a deal getting done with Carle -- even publicly saying twice that he thought it could get done at slightly below market value -- that it made one wonder why it hadn't been done during the season at the point when there was still tagging space available to make a deal.





Continue: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=45436


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 02-13-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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Old
02-13-2013, 12:56 PM
  #29
Cyborg LeClair
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Don't like Downie or Carcillo. I like Rinaldo though. Ever since I've seen that video of him meeting Lindros after the Alumni game, and hearing him talk about how he was his favorite player and he has modeled his game after him, I've started to see some Lindros in him (albeit he's like a miniature version of him and equally lesser in talent).

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02-13-2013, 01:06 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg LeClair View Post
Don't like Downie or Carcillo. I like Rinaldo though. Ever since I've seen that video of him meeting Lindros after the Alumni game, and hearing him talk about how he was his favorite player and he has modeled his game after him, I've started to see some Lindros in him (albeit he's like a miniature version of him and equally lesser in talent).
so, he's nothing like Lindros at all?

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:08 PM
  #31
zarley zelepukin
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Downie is by far the best hockey player of the three, so he would be my choice.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:20 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
so, he's nothing like Lindros at all?
Well, except that they both make Cyborg's ears perk up and blush apparently...

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:47 PM
  #33
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Downie for sure, he got royally screwed over here by Stevens and Homer. It was obvious Stevens didn't want him in the lineup and instead of putting him in the AHL, Holmgren let him rot as a healthy scratch over and over. He is a skilled player while the other two don't have much natural talent. I would take Carcillo by a nose hair over Rinaldo at this point since Carcillo's dumb moves are a thing of the past while Rinaldo's aren't.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:51 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Downie for sure, he got royally screwed over here by Stevens and Homer. It was obvious Stevens didn't want him in the lineup and instead of putting him in the AHL, Holmgren let him rot as a healthy scratch over and over. He is a skilled player while the other two don't have much natural talent. I would take Carcillo by a nose hair over Rinaldo at this point since Carcillo's dumb moves are a thing of the past while Rinaldo's aren't.
Not to get into it since there are site rules..but Downie created his own problems internally and off the ice that mostly got him traded.

As far as Rinaldo..slowly but surely he'll gain respect from the refs and some fans. Last night he showed again what he's capable of and has come a long way IMO...

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02-13-2013, 02:41 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Downie for sure, he got royally screwed over here by Stevens and Homer. It was obvious Stevens didn't want him in the lineup and instead of putting him in the AHL, Holmgren let him rot as a healthy scratch over and over. He is a skilled player while the other two don't have much natural talent. I would take Carcillo by a nose hair over Rinaldo at this point since Carcillo's dumb moves are a thing of the past while Rinaldo's aren't.
Downie is the most talented by far imo. If i had to pick between Carbomb and Rinaldo, i'd take Rinaldo. I liked Danny when he was a Flyer, but the dude just dives too much.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:28 PM
  #36
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Downie. Though, this is a little obvious.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:31 PM
  #37
BrindamoursNose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
I don't consider it unrealistic for Holmgren to have handled an asset much better than he did. Meltzer had a commentary on it as well when it happened and if I recall correctly pretty much said Holmgren didn't do his due dilligence for various reasons..not all of them similar to my points but the basic premise was that he should have handled that situation much better and more proactively.

Again Holmgren allowed outside events to dictate the outcome too much...and it wasn't an ideal outcome IMO. Maybe for some it was reasonable within the context they understand but I don't agree.

Here is Meltzer's reasoning
Let's say Carle was re-signed for about 4.75-5 million per year. I'm still livid with that signing, even with that hometown discount. I know the Flyers need a puck mover, but not Carle and not at that price.

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02-13-2013, 03:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Let's say Carle was re-signed for about 4.75-5 million per year. I'm still livid with that signing, even with that hometown discount. I know the Flyers need a puck mover, but not Carle and not at that price.
Ok but that is your personal judgement. My contention is with what actually transpired and I think Meltzer made a pretty good cogent argument as to why Holmgren didn't handle it properly...

I wasn't a huge Carle fan either for various reasons but he had value and to come out of it with nothing is disconcerting to me from a business POV. For those that didn't like him which I think some took too far...they are glad he is just gone. I can see that with a Leighton or Shelley but not Carle...

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:52 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
My contention is with what actually transpired and I think Meltzer made a pretty good cogent argument as to why Holmgren didn't handle it properly.
Meltzer is right (as usual). If you paid any attention to the situation, they made Carle sit on his hands while the Flyers chased Suter, who if they got, the resigning of Carle was dramatically less likely. Carle is watching the GM claim publically that he can get Carle at a discount, which is arrogant, when it is clear he is pursuing someone else and using Carle as a backup plan.

That's horrible leadership and I would have signed elsewhere as well. Who wants to take a discount AND be the backup girlfriend? Oh, well, the real girl we wanted won't get busy with us, so hey wanna get busy?

No one. This isn't college.

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02-13-2013, 04:33 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
And let Matt Carle walk.....

So basically we got Eminger for Carlson (even if maybe we wouldn't have drafted him)...traded Eminger and Downie for Carle b/c we needed a Carlson type and now we have ZILCH to show for all of it....cool!

Anyway, I like Rinaldo but Downie was more talented obviously. Carcillo was ok but I consider him a punk after bad mouthing the Flyers..mostly Lavi.
Flyers got 359 games out of Carle.

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Old
02-13-2013, 06:01 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Downie has skill, so I don't think this will be close. Easily the best.

I prefer Rinaldo to Carcillo.
I agree with you on every point. Downie is a peice of work, but his skill set is night and day over the other two. Zac has it all over Carbomb. I must admit the little SOB is growing on me.

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:36 PM
  #42
Cyborg LeClair
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so, he's nothing like Lindros at all?
I mean in terms of how he plays and his attitude. As if he is gonna skate through the other players rather than around them. Huge hits and fights hard. Obviously, Lindros was great because of his size and skill level but the third thing he brought to the table was his mean attitude which makes him stand out.

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02-13-2013, 10:42 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Cyborg LeClair View Post
I mean in terms of how he plays and his attitude. As if he is gonna skate through the other players rather than around them. Huge hits and fights hard. Obviously, Lindros was great because of his size and skill level but the third thing he brought to the table was his mean attitude which makes him stand out.
What a weapon Lindros was, concussions... What a shame.... Can you imagine lindros in his prime, in the "new" NHL without holding and grabbing and obstruction.... Unstoppable

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Old
02-14-2013, 10:26 AM
  #44
Haute Couturier
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Downie > Carcillo > Rinaldo

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Old
02-15-2013, 01:54 PM
  #45
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Downie = Tocchet Lite. I'd love to see him back in O&B.

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:26 PM
  #46
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Downie = Tocchet Lite. I'd love to see him back in O&B.
One player on the Flyers definitely wouldn't.....

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Old
02-15-2013, 02:47 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
One player on the Flyers definitely wouldn't.....
And who might that be?

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