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Subban's play since coming back

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:48 PM
  #176
HankyZetts
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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
It's fans like you that entertain the eternal pressure in montreal of not producing.
What? Spare us the hyperbole dude.

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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
It's always he is good but he did this but. Stop with the but go see elsewhere Shea Weber the best dman in the league in the sense of hfboard has 1 freakin point this year and he hasn't been stellar in his zone.
Well, firstly I wouldn't be looking at the stat-sheet as the be-all end-all of how he is playing.
Secondly, I have always been of the opinion that Weber benefited from Suter more than the other way around.
Thirdly, pray tell how that has anything to do with PK Subban?

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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
Since Subban has been back he has 6 points has been playing well on both ends, yesterday he makes one bad play oh he is overrated, oh he is stalling wth.
Why don't you try paying attention? I didn't single out one play as the reason some, or seemingly most of you guys overrate Subban. I listed a bunch of things that I question about his game. That one play is not something I worry too much about because it's something that can be whipped out of him. That's a focus issue. The things that, imo, limit him from being considered elite/top echelon of dmen, are things that are very hard to teach or develop.

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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
Markov made freakin horribles plays (the Komarov goal for once) in the last 4 games has anybody said oh Markov sucks, Markov is bad.
I'm sure that that play has been singled out a lot. But I'd argue that was simply dumb luck. Meaning he had the right idea in the first place, tried to get back the way he should when he messed up, then he simply fanned on the puck and lost an edge trying to pivot and cover the middle. It was a bad and unfortunate play, but it happened due to a bounce and him being limited by his mobility.

Oh and the fact that Markov is our best player, and so good in so many areas, allows him to get away with a few more mistakes than PK.

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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
Continue on your path of bashing Subban our best or 2nd best dman while still improving.

The cup is half full not half empty.
Ok there buddy. Saying he is not elite, nor our best defenseman is considered "bashing" nowadays.
I guess I'm an anti-Subbite. Hahaha
#ContinuetheOverrating

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:05 PM
  #177
Dirty Danglez
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Ok there buddy. Saying he is not elite, nor our best defenseman is considered "bashing" nowadays.
I guess I'm an anti-Subbite. Hahaha
#ContinuetheOverrating
He may not be elite yet (semantics really... I think most analysts would say he is a top pairing defenseman in this league, which some might consider an elite position), but he is the best all around defenseman on the team imo.

Markov is probably the best offensive defenseman not named karlsson in terms of shot, playmaking, puck carrying and passing, but he lacks the speed and the phyisicality to be elite defensively like he used to be. He can still play top minutes defensively, but Subban and Gorges are better in that regards.

Markov Offense 9/10 Defence 7/10
Subban Offense 8/10 Defence 8/10
Gorges Offense -10/10 Defence 9/10

That's how I'd rate our top D albeit in a not so complex format lol. But the point is that Subban and Markov are on par in terms of overall effectiveness imo

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02-13-2013, 03:14 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
He may not be elite yet (semantics really... I think most analysts would say he is a top pairing defenseman in this league, which some might consider an elite position), but he is the best all around defenseman on the team imo.
And I think most real analysts would say that Markov is one of the best "#1" Dmen in the league. So when I see people call Subban a better player, it irks me.

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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
He can still play top minutes defensively, but Subban and Gorges are better in that regards.

Markov Offense 9/10 Defence 7/10
Subban Offense 8/10 Defence 8/10
Gorges Offense -10/10 Defence 9/10

That's how I'd rate our top D albeit in a not so complex format lol. But the point is that Subban and Markov are on par in terms of overall effectiveness imo
I respectfully disagree. Yes, Markov can occasionally get beat wide with speed, but in the D-zone he is a much better defender than Subban, or anyone on our team really. He reads the play much better, and has a much better stick.

So, imo, they are not even close to "on par" in overall effectiveness.


Edit: At this point, I am just defending my opinion. I'm not on some mission to expose Subban as a crappy player or anything. I just think Markov is clearly better.

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02-13-2013, 03:24 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
I respectfully disagree. Yes, Markov can occasionally get beat wide with speed, but in the D-zone he is a much better defender than Subban, or anyone on our team really. He reads the play much better, and has a much better stick.
No, Gorges is our best defender, following closely by Subban and then Markov. ATM, Markov could not quite contain big/fast forwards despite all the experiences and smarts.

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Old
02-13-2013, 03:33 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
No, Gorges is our best defender, following closely by Subban and then Markov. ATM, Markov could not quite contain big/fast forwards despite all the experiences and smarts.
Gorges may be our best shot-blocker and a warrior, but he's looked outmatched this year. Sucks to say, but he's looked bad in some instances...

I've seen Markov break up countless plays in our zone this year. Haven't really seen him struggle too much with big/fast forwards in our zone. Emelin has been caught looking a few times but Markov's stickwork has been incredible this year imo. His problem has been off the rush, he's been a bit sluggish at times.

I'm one of those that believe Markov should play with Gorges and Emelin with Subban. I want Emelin on his left side where he is much more comfortable playing his game. You could play those two against any competition. Couldn't hurt to try it out if we continue to struggle.

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02-13-2013, 03:34 PM
  #181
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Subban has been extremely good when he has the puck in the denfesive zone and he's also been good when he has position in the attacking end. But he's been average when he doesn't have possesion i.e on the lightning's 1st goal he badly missed his check on Benoit Pouliot who went on to make a pass to Tom Pyatt in the slot that lead to the goal.

Michel Therrien doesn't overuse him like last year and he's proven to be imo better offensively. I think the habs should look to find him a better partner than Bouillon, sadly Kaberle as been extremely soft and foul this year but I'd almost like MT to give him a shot maybe have a couple practice with PK to see if anything good could come from it.

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02-13-2013, 04:03 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Subban has been extremely good when he has the puck in the denfesive zone and he's also been good when he has position in the attacking end. But he's been average when he doesn't have possesion i.e on the lightning's 1st goal he badly missed his check on Benoit Pouliot who went on to make a pass to Tom Pyatt in the slot that lead to the goal.

Michel Therrien doesn't overuse him like last year and he's proven to be imo better offensively. I think the habs should look to find him a better partner than Bouillon, sadly Kaberle as been extremely soft and foul this year but I'd almost like MT to give him a shot maybe have a couple practice with PK to see if anything good could come from it.
I just think its time to reunite the Gorges Subban pairing.

They play against the top lines, Markov and Emelin will shut down the next ones

Bouillon Diaz and match up against most lines too... it would be a solid 3 pairings. I just don't want to overuse markov and Emelin.

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02-13-2013, 04:31 PM
  #183
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Since coming back his play has been A++, no complaints, our best defenseman by far I would say especially because Markov took a few steps back.

Therrien better start utilizing him as such.

Arettons de naisiser.

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Old
02-13-2013, 04:33 PM
  #184
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One of my buddies is always waiting a little mistake from subban to descredit any great game he is having like yesterday... saying subban is responsible for the comeback like he wasnt involved in all 3 goals for.... if one "habs fan" is like him im sure there is lots of tothers like him... just pathetic.

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02-13-2013, 04:37 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Montreal Impact FC View Post
One of my buddies is always waiting a little mistake from subban to descredit any great game he is having like yesterday... saying subban is responsible for the comeback like he wasnt involved in all 3 goals for.... if one "habs fan" is like him im sure there is lots of tothers like him... just pathetic.
Is your friend called OneSharpMarble?

Actually I have one like that too but I don't complain too much because he doesn't know too much about hockey. He's a fanboy at best and swallows everything he hears in the media.

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02-13-2013, 04:44 PM
  #186
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Despite getting ridiculously little ice time (for a player of his caliber) and missing training camp + beginning of season (which usually means a terrible season for most players) he is scoring at a ppg clip and IMHO playing excellent hockey overall. I feel he is not nearly as good defensively as he was last season so far. But he's a slow starter and he's missed the beginning of the season so I'm expecting more at some point.

Eventually, the coaching staff is going to wake up and start using him 23-24 min per night. Diaz should not be on the ice defending one goal leads with Subban on the bench, that's just retarded. Bouillon should not be playing more than him. Neither should Emelin or anyone really.

People blaming him for last night's debacle are completely forgetting the fact that he had a major contribution on each of the goals we scored yesterday. The way he broke out of our own zone and allowed Armstrong easy entry into the zone on our 3rd goal was the most impressive play of the night despite not getting a point on that play. Showed his immense talent right there.

One thing Subban sucks at but seems to like to do is open ice hits. He had one good one once against Marchand but besides that, he mostly just clips people and takes himself out of the play. I also hate to see him offer his back when he hits. It looks completely reckless. I just wish he'd stop that. He's not a hard hitter. He'd be a better dman if he'd just stop going for those IMO. Taking people out is not his game anyway, that's not what he's there for.

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02-13-2013, 04:49 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
One thing Subban sucks at but seems to like to do is open ice hits. He had one good one once against Marchand but besides that, he mostly just clips people and takes himself out of the play. I also hate to see him offer his back when he hits. It looks completely reckless. I just wish he'd stop that. He's not a hard hitter. He'd be a better dman if he'd just stop going for those IMO. Taking people out is not his game anyway, that's not what he's there for.
I completely agree with you and I said this last year only to get bashed because some former great defenseman had this as a signature move, or something along those lines. It's stupid and he needs to stop.

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02-13-2013, 04:56 PM
  #188
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Subban needs to play more minutes.

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02-13-2013, 05:01 PM
  #189
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This forum has such a raging subban "boner" any intelligent critique/discussion is impossible.

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02-13-2013, 05:02 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
Subban needs to play more minutes.
The lowball offer + lack of ice time makes me wonder what the hell is up with the coaching staff and management.

Is it because they don't realize how good he is or is it because they're trying to teach him some kind of lesson. I honestly don't know which is worse. I guess the first one would be really bad because that means our GM is HankyZetts.

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02-13-2013, 05:07 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
This forum has such a raging subban "boner" any intelligent critique/discussion is impossible.
Code:
NAME	               GP     G      A    PTS    +/-	
P.K. Subban	6	3	3	6	0
Best dman EVER... of all time.

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02-13-2013, 05:08 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Code:
NAME	               GP     G      A    PTS    +/-	
P.K. Subban	6	3	3	6	0
Best dman EVER in ALL history.
now, imagine if MT was using him properly, he'd be at 2 PPG minimum.

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02-13-2013, 05:17 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Subban has been extremely good when he has the puck in the denfesive zone and he's also been good when he has position in the attacking end. But he's been average when he doesn't have possesion i.e on the lightning's 1st goal he badly missed his check on Benoit Pouliot who went on to make a pass to Tom Pyatt in the slot that lead to the goal.

Michel Therrien doesn't overuse him like last year and he's proven to be imo better offensively. I think the habs should look to find him a better partner than Bouillon, sadly Kaberle as been extremely soft and foul this year but I'd almost like MT to give him a shot maybe have a couple practice with PK to see if anything good could come from it.
So...

You suggest a new partner for Subban, due to Bouillon not being good enough.
Yet you suggest a WORSE D-Men that Bouillon.

Where's the common sense in that?

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02-13-2013, 06:01 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The lowball offer + lack of ice time makes me wonder what the hell is up with the coaching staff and management.

Is it because they don't realize how good he is or is it because they're trying to teach him some kind of lesson. I honestly don't know which is worse. I guess the first one would be really bad because that means our GM is HankyZetts.
Ouch.

Yes, I'm certain those are the only two options. Surely you couldn't be overrating Subban a bit right? No, it's got to be a conspiracy against PK! You most definitely know better than the professionals!!

If you take off the blinders and relax, you'd realize that PK is getting his icetime. It'll only increase as the season goes on and he gets better as well.

Markov is a better defenceman than him and I'm sorry that makes you so mad.

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02-13-2013, 06:25 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Ouch.

Yes, I'm certain those are the only two options. Surely you couldn't be overrating Subban a bit right? No, it's got to be a conspiracy against PK! You most definitely know better than the professionals!!
That's gotta be the laziest, stupidest, most unoriginal thing to say on a sports forum. It really annoys me when people use that card. It's hypocritical to the highest degree too because there's no way you always agree with everything professionals ever do. I find people who use that argument to be really annoying and typically unable to use logic to defend their opinion.

Quote:
If you take off the blinders and relax, you'd realize that PK is getting his icetime. It'll only increase as the season goes on and he gets better as well.
18 min last game (for a game that went to OT), and he was sitting on the bench while Diaz was out there defending a one goal lead.

Quote:
Markov is a better defenceman than him and I'm sorry that makes you so mad.
Why would that make me mad ? I love Markov. Not sure why you're bringing that up all of a sudden or how it matters in any way though.

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02-13-2013, 07:10 PM
  #196
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Please, let's rename this board.

Instead of "Montreal Canadiens", it should be the "Subban and Eller" board. The rest of the players doesn't matter.

As long as these two guys get their ice time and their cookies, everything is fine for the fanboys.

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02-13-2013, 07:25 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Please, let's rename this board.

Instead of "Montreal Canadiens", it should be the "Subban and Eller" board. The rest of the players doesn't matter.

As long as these two guys get their ice time and their cookies, everything is fine for the fanboys.
You always bash our board.... No one is forcing you to keep posting here.

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02-13-2013, 07:31 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Please, let's rename this board.

Instead of "Montreal Canadiens", it should be the "Subban and Eller" board. The rest of the players doesn't matter.

As long as these two guys get their ice time and their cookies, everything is fine for the fanboys.
I thought this was the Subban thread?? How about that Emelin.

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02-13-2013, 07:33 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Please, let's rename this board.

Instead of "Montreal Canadiens", it should be the "Subban and Eller" board. The rest of the players doesn't matter.

As long as these two guys get their ice time and their cookies, everything is fine for the fanboys.
Yhea... Seriously guys, Habtchum is right. Why do you ALWAYS talk about Subban in the Subban thread, eh?!

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02-13-2013, 07:38 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
That's gotta be the laziest, stupidest, most unoriginal thing to say on a sports forum. It really annoys me when people use that card. It's hypocritical to the highest degree too because there's no way you always agree with everything professionals ever do. I find people who use that argument to be really annoying and typically unable to use logic to defend their opinion.

You're not getting it. It's you that is unable to use logic by believing that your opinion is fact. Not only that, you feel the only way to rationalize the fact that the professionals believe otherwise, is by claiming conspiracy or ignorance. How is that logical?

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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
18 min last game (for a game that went to OT), and he was sitting on the bench while Diaz was out there defending a one goal lead.

Ok so maybe you should try to understand why that happened? I won't pretend to know for a fact, but I'll speculate that he was being punished for an absolutely horrible defensive play that broke our shutout, following it up with questionable stick work in allowing a pass to get through to hedman(although in the air) to put the game within a goal. Apart from that, he was probably on pace to 21+ minutes again.

Do you think it at all possible that you may be overreacting a bit to this "lack of icetime/lowball offer"?

I have no real problem with Diaz being out there in either case, he's been great this year.

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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Why would that make me mad ? I love Markov. Not sure why you're bringing that up all of a sudden or how it matters in any way though.
Well then maybe I overrate your ability to follow a conversation? Because the only real arguments I've made in this thread are that Markov is clearly a better dman than Subban, and that Subban is not one of the elite young dmen in the league.

Maybe you should take a breathe and apologize for some of the inflammatory remarks you've made towards me since it appears that you actually agree with me? Or do you really think PK is an elite young defenseman in the NHL? Because to be considered better or even at par with Markov, you'd bet your ass he'd be considered "elite" in this league.

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