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The utter nonsense of blaming anyone but Steve Tambellini.

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Old
02-13-2013, 06:09 PM
  #251
Tad Mikowsky
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Penner? you mean the guy who's a healthy scratch in LA?

What a terrible, terrible loss.

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02-13-2013, 06:18 PM
  #252
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02-13-2013, 06:27 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Sometimes I wonder if you were even paying attention to the Oilers back when those deals occured.

Specificly the Cole one, where he didn't fit in with the team all year, was clearly unhappy in Edmonton, and a soon-to-be UFA that had no intention of resigning in Edmonton. Or that at the time of the trade, everyone was happy to have just gotten something for Cole, let alone a young supposed sniper who everyone thought needed a change of scenery after a contentious contract negotiations, whose productive year hadn't yet been exposed as a product of playing with Kopitar.

Even the rest of your list is fraught with inconsistencies and manufactured facts. I mean look around, do you really think you need to modify history to get people to dislike Tambo and Lowe?
Oh ok, so that's your excuse for allowing Tambolini to lose most of their trades ... Cole wasn't happy so we trade him for a bag of pucks and a case of beer, and be happy you got that. Blah, blah, blah. Yup always an excuse why they screwed up another one.

One excuse after another ... well, I assure you with these clowns at the helm, we'll all be having the same arguement 5 years from now when the Oilers finish in the lottery again.

The results speak for themselves. Tamblowe have built a team of smurfs and smurfs get pushed around, get injured and nobody is afraid to play them.

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02-13-2013, 06:44 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by jbean View Post
Besides the drafts and Schultz falling into their lap, what has Tambo done to better the team? I can only think of a bunch of minor or lateral moves. Gilbert for Schultz. Signing Belanger, Eager, and Hordichuck. Landing Fistric and Potter. Visnovsky for Whitney.

These are not impact moves. These are not the kind of moves that will turn a non playoff team into a playoff team. Tambo has shown very little reason to believe that he is a capable GM that can turn this team into a playoff contender and then sustain it.
Oh I like this one. Ok jbean - just what is your master plan then? I'd love to hear it. How about we go signing RFA's like Phil Kessel and give up RNH and Taylor Hall for that? Does that float your boat? How about we offer up Ryan Whitney and Ryan Smyth to LA for Drew Doughty? That would be a steal of a trade for Kings and they'd be all over it, wouldn't they

You know, unless someone is dumping a contract, you have to give to get. And in case you missed my first post here - our cupboard is BARE - as in - WE GOT NOTHING TO GIVE to GET. Get it? The first step was establishing a farm system (check) then stockpiling it (check) then let the players develop (check - this last one takes time, it ain't "EA SPORTS" its called REAL LIFE). Soon we will be in position to make trades - but to get a doughty, you need to trade Eberle or Hall. To get a Zach Kassian type winger, you need to give up a Gagne. You can't give those guys up yet until you know where they will fit in.

Tambo is doing the best he can with the cards he was dealt, and his hand now is getting more face cards and aces, the 2's, 3's, 5's and 7's are diminishing. With a better hand he can start making better moves. The Fistric move was great, and the moves you mentioned (Belanger, Eager and Hordichuck) were all solid moves. It's not his fault the players haven't performed they way they should have. All a GM can do is get the players he needs, its up to the players to perform.

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02-13-2013, 06:47 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Gone View Post
Oh ok, so that's your excuse for allowing Tambolini to lose most of their trades ... Cole wasn't happy so we trade him for a bag of pucks and a case of beer, and be happy you got that. Blah, blah, blah. Yup always an excuse why they screwed up another one.

One excuse after another ... well, I assure you with these clowns at the helm, we'll all be having the same arguement 5 years from now when the Oilers finish in the lottery again.

The results speak for themselves. Tamblowe have built a team of smurfs and smurfs get pushed around, get injured and nobody is afraid to play them.
What excuses? I made no excuses for anyone. I was pointing out that you don't need manufacture arguments and modify history to make a case of why you don't like Tambo and Lowe.

You're response to my post just shows how polarized and irrational you've become over the entire issue.

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02-13-2013, 07:00 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by JetsOilersfan View Post
Oh I like this one. Ok jbean - just what is your master plan then? I'd love to hear it. How about we go signing RFA's like Phil Kessel and give up RNH and Taylor Hall for that? Does that float your boat? How about we offer up Ryan Whitney and Ryan Smyth to LA for Drew Doughty? That would be a steal of a trade for Kings and they'd be all over it, wouldn't they

You know, unless someone is dumping a contract, you have to give to get. And in case you missed my first post here - our cupboard is BARE - as in - WE GOT NOTHING TO GIVE to GET. Get it? The first step was establishing a farm system (check) then stockpiling it (check) then let the players develop (check - this last one takes time, it ain't "EA SPORTS" its called REAL LIFE). Soon we will be in position to make trades - but to get a doughty, you need to trade Eberle or Hall. To get a Zach Kassian type winger, you need to give up a Gagne. You can't give those guys up yet until you know where they will fit in.

Tambo is doing the best he can with the cards he was dealt, and his hand now is getting more face cards and aces, the 2's, 3's, 5's and 7's are diminishing. With a better hand he can start making better moves. The Fistric move was great, and the moves you mentioned (Belanger, Eager and Hordichuck) were all solid moves. It's not his fault the players haven't performed they way they should have. All a GM can do is get the players he needs, its up to the players to perform.

There's been players on waivers this year that would help. Willis floated Bolduc while he was on waivers, I'd rather have his grit and experience than Vandvelde. We don't need a big trade, we need some supporting cast


Just in the last year our management has made quite a few mistakes. The Belanger and Eager signings were astute, but they didn't work out. Rolling the same line again this year is a failure to adapt.


Every year our management fails to predict shortfalls. Why was Lander playing in NHL most of last year? Lack of C depth... biggest problem this year... Lack of C depth.


Our management seems like the impetus every year is to avoid exposing marginal NHL players to waivers. Like seriously, that seems to be our corporate strategy, it's the only constant year to year besides losing.

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02-13-2013, 07:03 PM
  #257
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BTW I remember Cole stating after the trade on TSN he was disappointed to be leaving the kids. He went on to have better seasons with two teams, one a bigger fishbowl then Edmonton, so maybe the problem was the situation he was in in Edmonton.


I think it's fair to criticize our management for that trade. At the least, they traded away a big player for a small player which lead to our current problem of no size in the line-up. Lack of predicting short falls

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02-13-2013, 07:25 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
What excuses? I made no excuses for anyone. I was pointing out that you don't need manufacture arguments and modify history to make a case of why you don't like Tambo and Lowe.

You're response to my post just shows how polarized and irrational you've become over the entire issue.
Ok, please clarify in my original post what facts were "manufactured"

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02-13-2013, 07:32 PM
  #259
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Much as I like Edmonton and the Oilers IMO being the manager of this team is probably top 3 hardest managerial positions in the NHL. Good players don't want to come to Edmonton and the fans and media make it a fish bowl for players and management. All I blame Tambellini for is not drafting some size. He will not get talented size and toughness through trades for the above reasons.

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02-13-2013, 07:54 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by oilforone View Post
Much as I like Edmonton and the Oilers IMO being the manager of this team is probably top 3 hardest managerial positions in the NHL. Good players don't want to come to Edmonton and the fans and media make it a fish bowl for players and management. All I blame Tambellini for is not drafting some size. He will not get talented size and toughness through trades for the above reasons.
Khaira, Moroz, Zharkov? I would call that drafting size. We have the size coming, it just needs time to develop. As was said before, this isn't NHL13, and our expe rations have been skewed as to the length of the rebuild by having first rounders step in right away. Developing through the draft takes time.

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02-13-2013, 08:19 PM
  #261
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Ok, please clarify in my original post what facts were "manufactured"
You've manufactured scenarios irrelevant to the current team by intentionally ignoring the context of virtually every situation involved to create a point, a point that could just as easily be made without manipulating history to suit your theory.

For instance, you fixate on the Cole trade. When he was traded it was get value for him or lose him for nothing, not a "bigger to smaller" trade you present as evidence of why Tambo is useless today. There is still a "management is incompentent" argument here, but it's in the initial start of that disasterious series of trades, not at the end on a move that was nothing more than a last ditch effort to recoup some value.

Or the Brodziak trade, where the real argument is in the compentancy of any GM thinking that team had any chance of being competive at the time, and that the hiring a doddering 80 year old coach would somehow be the answer to unlocking that potential. Brodziak(who no one thought was anything more than a soft, 4th line forward at the time) and his sacrifice to the ideals of getting "tougher" was nothing more than a sideshow.

There is also the fact you apparently absolve Souray of sewering his own value after demanding a trade. Still an argument to be made about the way the Oiler's handled it, but you can't pretend that the Oilers were the sole idiotic party in that particular series of events.

Not sure about the issue with Penner either, which was clearly a rebuilding move on a team that openly stated it was rebuilding. Even in a size argument, it doesn't make much sense as he plays more like he's smaller than Gagner 90% of the time anyways.

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02-13-2013, 09:03 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
J
Quote from Lowe after Tambo resigned:

Kevin Lowe says, “Three years ago we asked Steve to begin a rebuild which we all know hasn’t been easy. However, Oilers fans can take some consolation in the fact that Steve and his staff have acquired some amazing talent which will most definitely be the cornerstone to future sustained success for the Edmonton Oilers.”

Just to jump in here theres gotta be some better quotes and timeframe quotes then this.

The above was taken in 2012 I believe and is an after the fact summary. It says nothing about INTENT to be awful.

The real money quotes would be around 2009 if the org was actually planning on being the worst club in the NHL over the next several years. But no, they weren't saying that at the time, they were saying the club would change and start a "new attitude" with "Lots of fight" and give Oilers fans a club they would be proud to watch. Anybody remember the 100hits video of the Oilers marching out on the ice annihilating everybody under their new coach Pat Quinn? The ones using hilites of the team playing for the recently deposed Craig Mactavish?

Anybody remember talk of physical play, no morning glories, and being a hard hitting, battling club? Oh wait, that never happened. It was the worst year ever for the Oilers.



I'm not sure why you, or anybody, would be satisfied by a statement of intent, implied after the fact by the org. As in, oh, we meant to suck all these years, do not adjust the channel.

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02-13-2013, 09:15 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by the pen is mightier View Post
Khaira, Moroz, Zharkov? I would call that drafting size. We have the size coming, it just needs time to develop. As was said before, this isn't NHL13, and our expe rations have been skewed as to the length of the rebuild by having first rounders step in right away. Developing through the draft takes time.
Only when the org is guilty of not filling known positions adequately and exposing a raft of young players to the results of chronic mismanagement.

Fact of the matter is you CAN'T take the amount of time the Oilers are taking with this. To a person, virtually everybody on this board felt this year was when the team needed to be competitive. This was the next year time. But the year before that it was last year...

'Its a moving target, always next year.

Heres the big trouble. We have 8 young under age 23 players in the lineup, 40% of the makeup of the club and the nucleus of the club going forward. WE are currently exposing this raft of players to extended periods of LOSING and LOSING CULTURE. We we're watching a team in 12th place that hasn't played a 60min game yet this year. We see a team content to give up whole periods and hope for better in the next, or the next game. Guess what, thats learning all about LOSING no matter how many times the org says they're ridding itself of that. yet everytime they bring in a hopeless Hordichuk, Cam Barker, Corey Potter, Ben Eager type fill the team is abetting continued LOSING. Creating the losing culture they claim they are getting rid of.

The real poison isn't having competent veterans like Souray in the lineup, its exposing young players to the poison of incompetent management which has showed little sign of initiating finding good players.

Fortunately, by the grace of Gagner, we have Justin Schultz landing here.

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02-13-2013, 09:31 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by oilforone View Post
Much as I like Edmonton and the Oilers IMO being the manager of this team is probably top 3 hardest managerial positions in the NHL. Good players don't want to come to Edmonton and the fans and media make it a fish bowl for players and management. All I blame Tambellini for is not drafting some size. He will not get talented size and toughness through trades for the above reasons.
Both him and Lowe are a LARGE reason why players did not want to come here. That stigma is gone now that Schultz came to us.

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02-13-2013, 09:34 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by JetsOilersfan View Post
ohhhh, here we go again. Lets blame Tambo, and in three years, after you fired him HIS players are dominating and we're in the playoffs, you'll give all the credit to 'the guy that replaced Tambo"
Most GM's who are part of rebuilds don't get to see the fruits of their labour. They are often fired for their failures and the reins are given to the next guy, I don't think this will occur quite as quickly with Tambellini as Darryl Katz seemed very onboard with more a scorched earth kind of rebuild.
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Originally Posted by JetsOilersfan
SB - you're right (which is why I quoted you). The vets aren't performing and the young ones are struggling right now (especially RNH) but they'll turn it around, I'm not worried.
This is part of the problem with Tambellini any successful rebuild needs strong veterans added to the team to help the young guys. As people mentioned previously players like Gary Roberts, Mark Recchi, and Bill Guerin were strong influences on a young Penguin team and made the players on that team better. Every veteran presently on the team with the exception of Horcoff (who is unmoveable due to his contract) and Smyth (fan favourite- persecution would follow if atleast some attempt wasn't made to re-sign him) are people he personally brought onto the team and those people he has brought in are failing to deliver. I was in favour of both the Eager and Belanger signings and if I was GM I wouldn't be surprised if I made that exact same decision, but being a fan I can still say it is the wrong decision; he is a GM and he is supposed to make the right decision when the average fan would make the wrong one. The fact that he has not been able to supplement this team with the proper veterans to support the teams growth and improvement lays at his feet. To me failure to get the right people in at this stage also makes me doubt his ability to get the right people in when we are actually ready to make a push for the Stanley Cup.

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Originally Posted by JetsOilersfan
WHat I am worried about is how many fans failed to realize that KEVIN LOWE drafted poorly and traded away other picks to get players like Pronger, Samsonov, etc to get us to a final but they they all left, no draft picks, f'd up on the picks we did have (still scratching my head on the 'Alex Plante' / 'Riley Nash' draft, what a waste of two picks that was) so yeah, we then hire Tambo with a BARE cupboard and then force him to sign Nikki Khab.
Lowe definitely did mortgage some future, to get the players for the Stanley Cup push, but given how far we made it and the fact we came within 1 game of winning the Stanley Cup it is hard to knock him for that. The only substantial pieces we gave up were the 1st and 2nd round pick the prospects we gave up didn't amount to much, I highly doubt we would of drafted Lucic with the 2nd round pick that is just griping with the benefit of hindsight. I also don't think it is fair to blame Kevin Lowe for the picks he is obviously not the one scouting the players on a regular basis, amateur scouting failures should fall on Kevin Prendergast. You can argue Lowe should of fired him, but he have solid drafts in 2001 and 2002, I don't think it was till the 2003 and 2004 drafts that you could start turning your nose up at him and obviously you are not going to know right after those drafts that he messed up, it would be a 4 or 5 year window after the fact. Stu MacGregor was appointed to the position of head scout on September 10, 2007 which was probably right around the time you could start noticing the cracks and ugly spots Kevin Prendergast's drafting record. Sadly instead of getting fired he was promoted and then fired a couple years later for a combination of failure to deliver a competitive AHL team and past drafting failures. Stu MacGregor is the person most responsible for any success that is presently attributed to Tambellini and Tambellini is not the man that hired him so I don't see why he would deserve any credit for that. Lowe's failures came in that he was not able to keep the team together that nearly delivered a Stanley Cup to the city, signing the players who were part of it to contracts that were more lucrative than they deserved, and combine that with turning the pieces that were shipped out into prospects that for the most part did not deliver. Lowe has a few more failings but, the thread is about Tambellini and not Lowe. Tambellini should be measured against his peers and his ability to outperform them in his role as GM which to this point I don't think he has demonstrated in any meaningful way.

Nothing forced Tambellini to sign Khabi to the contract that he did other than his own stupidity. Roloson was staring him right in the face and all he wanted was a 2 year contract and he definitely outperformed Khabi on those 2 years of his contract, he also netted the Islanders what was considered a decent prospect at the time of trade. There were other options available besides the 2 old guys as well.
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Originally Posted by JetsOilersfan
Guys, it takes TIME for PLAYERS to develop (like Sam Gagner). They have been playing Hockey in their age group and dominating / starring their whole lives, then all of a sudden they're thrust in way way way over their heads.

To put it in perspective, go ahead and take any 12 year old kid and shove him into the CHL - and don't give me any 'that's not the same' - YES IT IS. These 'kids' are playing against MEN - professional atheletes, let me spell that - P-R-O-F-E-S-S-I-O-N-A-L athletes who have been training for 15 to 25 years vs a KID like Hopkins who has been training for only 8 or 9 years. Pro's whose bodies are FULLY matured - you take a 200 lb 18 year old KID and put them up against a 30 year old 200lb MAN - you'd be surprised how much stronger that 30 year old is even though the weight is the same.

Bottom line is this - this team is still two to three years out. It took Kevin Lowe 5 years to destroy this team, it will take Tambo (or anyone else for that matter) 10 years to rebuild it. Not, not 4, not 6. We're definitely going the right direction, our farm team (yes we have one - remember in Lowe's heyday we didn't have a farm team, though that was ownership not KLowe) is getting much stronger, our young players are starting (Gagne now as mentioned, Hall/Ebs will be following suit soon, RNH is still a few years away I'm afraid he needs to get a lot stronger) and our DMen are developing (Klefbom - though hurt now, Marincin, Musil, Gernat).

I'm not worried, I'm patient, and excited, cause I know we're getting there. I think Tambo is doing fine, sure he's made mistakes, but so does everyone else. He hasn't made any doozies and the last thing I want is some thirty five + something signed to a ridiculous contract.
First off 10 years for a rebuild is absolutely ridiculous you could burn any team to the ground and start from absolutely nothing and it shouldn't take 10 years to turn it around. I will agree that Tambellini hasn't done anything significantly detrimental to our rebuild at this point as we still have all the core pieces of our future, but in that same regard has done very little to help that process along. All rebuilding teams have a window for success and we can't get a ton more high picks without cap restraints starting to bare down on us. You also want the core pieces to mature at roughly the same time you don't want half your team at the peak while the other half will only be getting better when the rest of the team is on the decline. Tambellini has acquired some more picks for Stu to use along the way which is a good thing, but I don't think he has landed a single player via any of his trades that will be contributing to our team when we make a push for a Stanley Cup. To me our timeline now should be we are either in or within spitting distance of a playoff spot this year. Next year we are solidly in the playoffs (4-6 range). 2 years from now we should be competing for the division title and atleast mentioned as a darkhorse for the cup. Then year 3 on should be a long string of playoff appearances, there will be a mix of strong and weak showings, but for the most part we should be one of the stronger teams for the foreseeable future.


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02-13-2013, 09:35 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by the pen is mightier View Post
Khaira, Moroz, Zharkov? I would call that drafting size. We have the size coming, it just needs time to develop. As was said before, this isn't NHL13, and our expe rations have been skewed as to the length of the rebuild by having first rounders step in right away. Developing through the draft takes time.
So we have just tossed our other size out the window eh? Pitlick, Martindale, Hamilton. Forgive me me if i don't start writing the names you mentioned into the line up even some years from now. The Oilers have failed to develop the secondary guys with size.

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02-13-2013, 09:39 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Only when the org is guilty of not filling known positions adequately and exposing a raft of young players to the results of chronic mismanagement.

Fact of the matter is you CAN'T take the amount of time the Oilers are taking with this. To a person, virtually everybody on this board felt this year was when the team needed to be competitive. This was the next year time. But the year before that it was last year...

'Its a moving target, always next year.

Heres the big trouble. We have 8 young under age 23 players in the lineup, 40% of the makeup of the club and the nucleus of the club going forward. WE are currently exposing this raft of players to extended periods of LOSING and LOSING CULTURE. We we're watching a team in 12th place that hasn't played a 60min game yet this year. We see a team content to give up whole periods and hope for better in the next, or the next game. Guess what, thats learning all about LOSING no matter how many times the org says they're ridding itself of that. yet everytime they bring in a hopeless Hordichuk, Cam Barker, Corey Potter, Ben Eager type fill the team is abetting continued LOSING. Creating the losing culture they claim they are getting rid of.

The real poison isn't having competent veterans like Souray in the lineup, its exposing young players to the poison of incompetent management which has showed little sign of initiating finding good players.

Fortunately, by the grace of Gagner, we have Justin Schultz landing here.
I would counter that we HAD to build through the draft because we were unable to attract quality FA's, and not just the big names, but even the quality role players. So in addition to the drafting the big 4, we have also had to draft our role players, they just need more time to be NHL ready. Do I wish we could go out and grab a cup worthy bottom 6 to complement our stars? Yes, and maybe we can in the future, but as of now, I believe the tide is only beginning to turn in our favour.

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02-13-2013, 09:47 PM
  #268
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So we have just tossed our other size out the window eh? Pitlick, Martindale, Hamilton. Forgive me me if i don't start writing the names you mentioned into the line up even some years from now. The Oilers have failed to develop the secondary guys with size.
I was by no means making a comprehensive list, my memory escaped me when I was posting. I don't see that they have failed, I don't believe that everyone follows a gagner or eberle development path. Players develop at different rates.

Edit- as in they can't be developed wi the big team, or need more than one or two seasons to be successful.

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02-13-2013, 09:54 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
You've manufactured scenarios irrelevant to the current team by intentionally ignoring the context of virtually every situation involved to create a point, a point that could just as easily be made without manipulating history to suit your theory.

For instance, you fixate on the Cole trade. When he was traded it was get value for him or lose him for nothing, not a "bigger to smaller" trade you present as evidence of why Tambo is useless today. There is still a "management is incompentent" argument here, but it's in the initial start of that disasterious series of trades, not at the end on a move that was nothing more than a last ditch effort to recoup some value.

Or the Brodziak trade, where the real argument is in the compentancy of any GM thinking that team had any chance of being competive at the time, and that the hiring a doddering 80 year old coach would somehow be the answer to unlocking that potential. Brodziak(who no one thought was anything more than a soft, 4th line forward at the time) and his sacrifice to the ideals of getting "tougher" was nothing more than a sideshow.

There is also the fact you apparently absolve Souray of sewering his own value after demanding a trade. Still an argument to be made about the way the Oiler's handled it, but you can't pretend that the Oilers were the sole idiotic party in that particular series of events.

Not sure about the issue with Penner either, which was clearly a rebuilding move on a team that openly stated it was rebuilding. Even in a size argument, it doesn't make much sense as he plays more like he's smaller than Gagner 90% of the time anyways.
I rarely talk about the Cole trade, and have not fixated on it. You are the one fixated with it. Just because I make the point that we trade a power forward, for a smaller, less skilled player in POS, I am somehow fixated on it? Yes Cole did not appear happy in Edmonton, but if he wasn't happy, why didn't management try to find that out before he came here? Management is never proactive in Edmonton; they are always reactive.

With respect to Cole, it is just another example of a very lopsided trade. Clearly they could of taken Justin Williams back in that deal, without involving LA at all. There is a clear pattern in Edmonton of trading away size and grit; Cole, Stoll, Greene etc. (and yes these are not just Tambo trades). Every GM in the league has recognized that a combination of size and grit win cups .... every GM but Tamblowe.

I'm sorry that you are too narrow minded to take my statement

'Patrick O'Sullivan for Cole was a big upgrade, in skill and size. Don't remember why we didn't keep him."

as "irrelevant to the current team by intentionally ignoring the context of virtually every situation involved to create a point"

but it is not irrelevant. Tamblowe loses a MAJORITY of their trades. How is this not relavent to the current situation?

A second relavent point, is KLowe has created an aura of arrogance and disdain for players and agents around the league. This begain with his pathetic treatment of Comrie, and further manifested itself in the Souray situation. Tambelini's handling of the situation had KLowe's finger prints all over it.

Yes Souray spoke out of turn, but was there more to it? At the beginning of that situation he was not demanding a trade, he was demanding respect. But management is who blew it out of proportion with some foolish standoff, as opposed to dealing with him directly. The end result being a buyout of a player who brought more grit to this team than anyone in the past 5 years.

For Brodziak, your suggesting that "who no one thought was anything more than a soft, 4th line forward at the time" is paramount to "intentionally ignoring the context of virtually every situation involved to create a point". Your statement is a blantant lie. There are many posters on here, who say the chemistry he created with Glencross and how he made Storotini a better player than he really was. For a while, that trio was our best line, and can you honestly say that you believed it was Storotini who made that happen? No, myself and many other posters saw Broziak as a big body, with skill and NO QUIT. One that could win faceoffs. A body, who's skill had a growth curve more than any other player drafted by the team (based on his position taken) in the previous few years. Did he appear soft, maybe to you, but you and Tamblowe obviously failed to see the growth he had undergone, and was continuting to show. Trading him for a 5 and 6th round pick was sheer stupidity, and made our team smaller. A clear mistake, a mistake in thinking that type of player was easily replaced. Further, like so many others before him, Brodziak was an Alberta born and raised player who loved to play in front of his friends and family.

Funny for a management group to create a toxic environment to outside players, you would think that when one or two actually want to be here (Brodziak, Glencross, Smyth), you might just hold on to them.

Sorry, but if I manufacture facts to support an arguement, you are right there with me.

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02-13-2013, 10:03 PM
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Or the Brodziak trade, where the real argument is in the compentancy of any GM thinking that team had any chance of being competive at the time, and that the hiring a doddering 80 year old coach would somehow be the answer to unlocking that potential. Brodziak(who no one thought was anything more than a soft, 4th line forward at the time) and his sacrifice to the ideals of getting "tougher" was nothing more than a sideshow.
This is basically brushing this under the carpet. Brodziak had his fans here and mostly people that followed the sensible two way play of his. I was a fan myself, criticizing letting him walk myself, and at the time, with other posters agreeing it was a mistake.

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There is also the fact you apparently absolve Souray of sewering his own value after demanding a trade. Still an argument to be made about the way the Oiler's handled it, but you can't pretend that the Oilers were the sole idiotic party in that particular series of events.
Nobody needs to "absolve" Souray of anything. He had legitimate claims about the handling of injured players by this org, and its medical team, which the team summarily fired months after claiming Souray was a cancer for critiquing the org. I guess the other play could've been acknowledging his concerns all along and working with him. The team basically undermined their own asset, who they continue to pay for, because poor Tambo was asshurt.

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Not sure about the issue with Penner either, which was clearly a rebuilding move on a team that openly stated it was rebuilding. Even in a size argument, it doesn't make much sense as he plays more like he's smaller than Gagner 90% of the time anyways.
it was a bad trade at the time and I said so at the time. Teubert? No way. That was the live body? No point. Guy was not going to be an NHL player and plain as day.
We we're lucky to get someone like Klefbom with a 19th pick but even that isn't a given as he has to recover from missing a whole lot of hockey. Could hurt his development a lot.

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02-13-2013, 10:11 PM
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I would counter that we HAD to build through the draft because we were unable to attract quality FA's, and not just the big names, but even the quality role players. So in addition to the drafting the big 4, we have also had to draft our role players, they just need more time to be NHL ready. Do I wish we could go out and grab a cup worthy bottom 6 to complement our stars? Yes, and maybe we can in the future, but as of now, I believe the tide is only beginning to turn in our favour.
This is an org that refused to draft Shane Doan with 16k people in Rexall place chanting Shane Doan. An org that let Ray Whitney simply walk because he "wasn't good enough"

Similar with Miro Satan.

or an org that didn't want to pay for talent like Weight, Cujo, Guerin.

BAsically an org in the 90's that thought these guys were **** because they'd seen the best and nothing compared. You're not worth this much dough. WE won't pay you, walk. This kind of thing set the table for players not coming here.

As an org thats always been the rub here. Nothing compares to the glory years. An org that looks sideways at players that want pay because we've seen better. Who would want to come to this org in the 90's or last decade? As a player it which a huge case of never good enough playing here. Of rarely being rewarded for playing here.

The org set this up as an outpost through their longstanding attitude with players and the NHLPA.

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02-13-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This is an org that refused to draft Shane Doan with 16k people in Rexall place chanting Shane Doan. An org that let Ray Whitney simply walk because he "wasn't good enough"

Similar with Miro Satan.

or an org that didn't want to pay for talent like Weight, Cujo, Guerin.

BAsically an org in the 90's that thought these guys were **** because they'd seen the best and nothing compared. You're not worth this much dough. WE won't pay you, walk. This kind of thing set the table for players not coming here.

As an org thats always been the rub here. Nothing compares to the glory years. An org that looks sideways at players that want pay because we've seen better. Who would want to come to this org in the 90's or last decade? As a player it which a huge case of never good enough playing here. Of rarely being rewarded for playing here.

The org set this up as an outpost through their longstanding attitude with players and the NHLPA.
The flames traded Brett hull

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02-13-2013, 10:17 PM
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The flames traded Brett hull
The Oilers traded Gretzky, Mess, Anderson, Coffey, Fuhr, Kurri, Pronger, Weight, Cujo, etc.

Again kind of an odd point for you to make.

No org in NHL history has ever sold out its fans as completely and consistently as this one does.

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02-13-2013, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The Oilers traded Gretzky, Mess, Anderson, Coffey, Fuhr, Kurri, Pronger, Weight, Cujo, etc.

Again kind of an odd point for you to make.

No org in NHL history has ever sold out its fans as completely and consistently as this one does.
They also traded savard, phaneuf, neundyke, etc... Just saying, replacement, not much of that matters now

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02-13-2013, 10:31 PM
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And would you say that it Tambellini's fault? Or something that he has been left to deal with?

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