When Montreal was dominant, up until the early parts of the 90's, they had enforcers. Todd freaking Ewen was there in the 90's. No virtuoso either.
A team needs one. The last team to ever think the opposite was Buffalo. They have changed their minds. Now the Last Mohicans are the Habs.
Ya, Montreal also had scraps like Roy, Carbo, LeClair, Desjardins, Muller, Damphousse, Turgeon, should I continue??
That's why they were dominant, not because they had Todd Ewen. They would have dominated just as much without him or Mario Roberge.
However, I wouldn't be against bringing an enforcer, actually I'm for it. If it's to have guys like Weber just warming up the press box with Kaberle, or having a guy like Armstrong who doesn't bring much anyways, might as well bring in someone with a true purpose.
I also think your competition dictates things. If you competition has players that come in, try to run you over, go after your captain without any fear, laugh at your players will punching them, time to adjust.
I wanted John Scott this summer, was sad to see him go to Buffalo. He's not the best fighter, but thanks to his size, he intimidates a load of players and boy how sweet would it have been to see him bash Thornton's head in Mtl? (Although not applauding Thornton's concussion, will never be joyed by someone getting seriously hurt).
Considering our current line up, we definitely should grab one. We have the room to put one in, I also think it's important to have someone that can hang with the best in the league when we have 18yo future star on our roster.
But most importantly, we play in a division filled with teams that carry them. We see those teams for most of the season, we need to have someone in whenever we face them.
A goon is needed plain ans simple. And believe me, you'll see one in a short time because that is how Michel Therrien likes them. His gm will try to please him.
Is Nashville playing five time against the Bruins or the Laffs?
Either you are very young and have not a lot of hockey 'baggage' behind the ears, or you have a selective memory. Until Houle, Andre, Bob and the vegan and his cronies (that got regularly spanked by a goonish Laffs team when they were part of the Hens' organisation I might add) put their wuss stamp on this roster, we always had to count on heavyweights. The NHL has not changed a bit in that regard since the hay days of the regular melees generales.
IMO the big change is that "heavyweights" used to also be competent hockey players. The vast majority aren't any more. This thread spent a day clamoring for Matt "8 pts in the AHL" Kassian. John Ferguson he ain't.
Karlsson gets sliced by a skate and you make this post on this thread?
Actually, it's now Karlsson, Spezza, Cowen, Latendresse, Regin and Michalek. Meanwhile the Habs are only missing Nokelainen. So how much is "protection" and how much is dumb luck?
Actually, it's now Karlsson, Spezza, Cowen, Latendresse, Regin and Michalek. Meanwhile the Habs are only missing Nokelainen. So how much is "protection" and how much is dumb luck?
Actually, it's now Karlsson, Spezza, Cowen, Latendresse, Regin and Michalek. Meanwhile the Habs are only missing Nokelainen. So how much is "protection" and how much is dumb luck?
Playing scared is more dangerous, and also means you're giving up the victory.
Playing scared is more dangerous, and also means you're giving up the victory.
I don't think anybody is playing scared, that's an old myth. Nobody that gets scared because there's a big bad evil guy on the other team gets to the NHL level.
I swear sometimes it's as if people think these guys never played versus enforcers or faced any type of attempted physical intimidation until getting to the NHL.
Nobody is scared of playing versus Colton Orr.
It has nothing to do with preventing injuries either.
It's all about answering the attempted intimidation. A guy like Orr or Neil can talk smack to our guys all game, doesn't mean our team will lose focus, hide in their shells, or lose a game. Heck, I'm pretty sure the star players would lose to play versus guys like Orr more often, they would absolutely dominate them.
But, it's always good to have someone on the team that can step on the ice and just shut up the guy.
Important to note that sometimes, no matter how much they get their face bashed in, some players will keep yapping away a la Barnaby.
I don't think anybody is playing scared, that's an old myth. Nobody that gets scared because there's a big bad evil guy on the other team gets to the NHL level.
I swear sometimes it's as if people think these guys never played versus enforcers or faced any type of attempted physical intimidation until getting to the NHL.
Nobody is scared of playing versus Colton Orr.
It has nothing to do with preventing injuries either.
It's all about answering the attempted intimidation. A guy like Orr or Neil can talk smack to our guys all game, doesn't mean our team will lose focus, hide in their shells, or lose a game. Heck, I'm pretty sure the star players would lose to play versus guys like Orr more often, they would absolutely dominate them.
But, it's always good to have someone on the team that can step on the ice and just shut up the guy.
Important to note that sometimes, no matter how much they get their face bashed in, some players will keep yapping away a la Barnaby.
The thing is, many players themselves have spoken about how important it is to have those kind of guys. So that kinda invalidates everything you just said.
Having a tough guy gives a trickle-down effect. Everyone else gets a little bit tougher. All of a sudden Prust and Moen can fight middleweights if a message needs to be sent.
I don't think anybody is playing scared, that's an old myth. Nobody that gets scared because there's a big bad evil guy on the other team gets to the NHL level.
I swear sometimes it's as if people think these guys never played versus enforcers or faced any type of attempted physical intimidation until getting to the NHL.
Nobody is scared of playing versus Colton Orr.
It has nothing to do with preventing injuries either.
It's all about answering the attempted intimidation. A guy like Orr or Neil can talk smack to our guys all game, doesn't mean our team will lose focus, hide in their shells, or lose a game. Heck, I'm pretty sure the star players would lose to play versus guys like Orr more often, they would absolutely dominate them. But, it's always good to have someone on the team that can step on the ice and just shut up the guy.
Important to note that sometimes, no matter how much they get their face bashed in, some players will keep yapping away a la Barnaby.
This is the main reason I won't lose sleep over a pure goon on the roster, if some guy who plays as often as Budaj will nip some of the problems before they become a distraction (to us more than the team), sure, why not, but it takes away from an actual hockey player, because even Moen and Armstrong at the very least can take shifts away so guys like Plekanec aren't exhausted by the end of the season.
I think this entire discussion is a distraction but I'll admit that watching Orr get beat down would be enjoyable. On the other hand trying to bring in useless goons against the Bruins would be a disaster, another team already beat us to that one and if we tried that again in the same season the Bruins would just ice their skill players and crush us.
Actually, it's now Karlsson, Spezza, Cowen, Latendresse, Regin and Michalek. Meanwhile the Habs are only missing Nokelainen. So how much is "protection" and how much is dumb luck?
And this is all you have to hang your hat on.
Injuries.
You are the one making the claim for some magical protection from injuries by having a team that can stand up and fight against the tough teams in the NE.
But you know that. Most everyone knows that. But that little red herring fallacy that you and a few others on this thread throw out is just that......a fallacy that you project upon the people who want this team to be tougher and have a level of respect.
But you know that as well.
So I will say this again. Enforcers will not protect skaters from getting sliced by an opponent. They will not prevent concussions when players are hit hard. They will not prevent broken bones or the high elbows.
No, they will allow the game of hockey to be played the way its supposed to be played. A great example of that is the last Buffalo Boston game........a clean affair save for Campbell's fight against Kaleta. That game was won on skill because Buffalo now has the manpower to combat the Bruins goonery.
Maybe you dont know that or dont care. Not for me to decide.
But please, for the sake of intellectual honesty, the biggest majority of the fans who want an enforcer know that this will not stop injuries. So quit projecting that and pointing out all of the Bruins injuries, or even worse, the injury to Karlsson tonight.
This is the main reason I won't lose sleep over a pure goon on the roster, if some guy who plays as often as Budaj will nip some of the problems before they become a distraction (to us more than the team), sure, why not, but it takes away from an actual hockey player, because even Moen and Armstrong at the very least can take shifts away so guys like Plekanec aren't exhausted by the end of the season.
I think this entire discussion is a distraction but I'll admit that watching Orr get beat down would be enjoyable. On the other hand trying to bring in useless goons against the Bruins would be a disaster, another team already beat us to that one and if we tried that again in the same season the Bruins would just ice their skill players and crush us.
What has Weber done this season? Seriously. Point out to us what he has brought to the Habs.
You are the one making the claim for some magical protection from injuries by having a team that can stand up and fight against the tough teams in the NE.
But you know that. Most everyone knows that. But that little red herring fallacy that you and a few others on this thread throw out is just that......a fallacy that you project upon the people who want this team to be tougher and have a level of respect.
But you know that as well.
So I will say this again. Enforcers will not protect skaters from getting sliced by an opponent. They will not prevent concussions when players are hit hard. They will not prevent broken bones or the high elbows.
No, they will allow the game of hockey to be played the way its supposed to be played. A great example of that is the last Buffalo Boston game........a clean affair save for Campbell's fight against Kaleta. That game was won on skill because Buffalo now has the manpower to combat the Bruins goonery.
Maybe you dont know that or dont care. Not for me to decide.
But please, for the sake of intellectual honesty, the biggest majority of the fans who want an enforcer know that this will not stop injuries. So quit projecting that and pointing out all of the Bruins injuries, or even worse, the injury to Karlsson tonight.
Thank you.
huh... no, they don't.
Most are wuss who think watching other people fight will turn them into tough guys.
Are we doing this again? Yes, the Habs need a tough guy. Prust, White, Moen, are a step in the right direction, especially if you are going to have players like Subban and Gallagher who are already targeted by other teams. You don't thing Gallagher will keep getting attention, the way he plays?
Where is the REAL Colby Armstrong, though? Where are those vicious hits?
What has Weber done this season? Seriously. Point out to us what he has brought to the Habs.
Since when was Weber playing? I've said it plenty of times that Weber should go both for his own sake and the Habs. But that has nothing to do with the fact that dressing a goon means dressing one less hockey player. Now you can argue losing out on Armstrong or Moen isn't something to lose sleep over but even their limited minutes have to go somewhere, and I really don't think anyone wants to see a Matt Kassian type playing over 10 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13
Are we doing this again? Yes, the Habs need a tough guy. Prust, White, Moen, are a step in the right direction, especially if you are going to have players like Subban and Gallagher who are already targeted by other teams. You don't thing Gallagher will keep getting attention, the way he plays?
Where is the REAL Colby Armstrong, though? Where are those vicious hits?
Gallagher is going to get attention no matter who he plays with, and I hope he never changes his game.
Sorry for not answering your one-line answers and discussing semantics with you. To me, it was pretty clear that you could pick a couple of teams doing very well within the group of 11-12 teams in the East that has an HW enforcer. You're just cherry-picking here.
Plus, I'm not interested to discuss with you on the matter anymore. Whatever I tell you, you'll still rather plug your ears and cover your eyes to keep living that pink and sweet dream you're in, that lets you believe that the Canadiens don't get abused on the ice.
Good for you if you like what you see. There's just a couple of guys in here who have more pride and who take it more personally when they see a 5'9 20 years old rookie fighting a guy twice his size, or Josh Gorges fighting a 250 pounder that's laughing at him right in front of his face, in the Bell Center.
Let's keep disregarding the rules. We're so much better than everyone...
Since when was Weber playing? I've said it plenty of times that Weber should go both for his own sake and the Habs. But that has nothing to do with the fact that dressing a goon means dressing one less hockey player. Now you can argue losing out on Armstrong or Moen isn't something to lose sleep over but even their limited minutes have to go somewhere, and I really don't think anyone wants to see a Matt Kassian type playing over 10 minutes.
Gallagher is going to get attention no matter who he plays with, and I hope he never changes his game.
Well, I hope for you the wish of the majority here comes true and some kind of enforcer is acquired, or that Moen gets injected steroids and bull testosterone to the point he becomes a monster, because if he keeps taking abuse like that, he's going to change his way of playing the game sooner than later.
Sorry for not answering your one-line answers and discussing semantics with you. To me, it was pretty clear that you could pick a couple of teams doing very well within the group of 11-12 teams in the East that has an HW enforcer. You're just cherry-picking here.
Plus, I'm not interested to discuss with you on the matter anymore. Whatever I tell you, you'll still rather plug your ears and cover your eyes to keep living that pink and sweet dream you're in, that lets you believe that the Canadiens don't get abused on the ice.
Good for you if you like what you see. There's just a couple of guys in here who have more pride and who take it more personally when they see a 5'9 20 years old rookie fighting a guy twice his size, or Josh Gorges fighting a 250 pounder that's laughing at him right in front of his face, in the Bell Center.
Let's keep disregarding the rules. We're so much better than everyone...
you're going to give the link to where I said that's what I think ? I mean, it's not just something you imagined or anything... right ?
that's YOUR problem, not mine... neither proud or ashamed of the Habs, they either entertain me or they dont, end of story.
Clowe is UFA this summer, as well as some guy named Doug Murray. Something like this is easily doable. We really, really got to find a good crease-clearer to add to our D group though. If he can enforce and drop the gloves, it's a nice bonus. But we desperately need a big body presence back there.
you're going to give the link to where I said that's what I think ? I mean, it's not just something you imagined or anything... right ?
that's YOUR problem, not mine... neither proud or ashamed of the Habs, they either entertain me or they dont, end of story.
Well it looks like your vision of things is God damn close to this from your answers and posts out there, arguing against enforcers. Either that or you're playing a trollish game.
As for your second affirmation, good for you. If you don't care for your team in the end, I can understand why you don't care when they get ran over.
While being realist I would want a guy that could at least make an impact in the game, not just a goon that you play 3 minutes a game, kind of Neil, Thornton, Rupp sometime ago, Chris Thorburn, Lucic, Doug Murray, Ryane Clowe, Christ Stewart.
Maybe Brad Winchester, Ben Eager or Cody Mcleod could do the job.
