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All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

View Poll Results: A quarter of the way through the 2013 season, do you approve or disapprove of Torts?
Approve 168 50.45%
Disapprove 165 49.55%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:10 PM
  #26
The Mouth
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I dont want him fired. But I disapprove. On the following criteria.

On ice : The Line Changes F , The PP F, The Line Combos C, How long am I going to see Gabby w/ Richards when they have zero chemistry ? Stepan belongs with Gabby. His favorites when slumping no benchings. Richards nada, Stepan nada.

Until recently he had playing the six people he "trusts" on the entire team like some Bataan death march. I'm sorry nobody else is playing their 6th defenseman 2 minutes a night consistently in the entire league.

Stu Bickel On Wing F

Off The Ice - I'm sick of hearing about we need more Jam, Stiffness, cowboy from player X. How bout we would like to see X player rush the puck more or free wheel. His inflexibility at times is maddening. Not bringing in a PP coach to me is a neglection of duty.

His media relations F abysmal. he needs anger management. its embarrassing as a fan to have that guy represent your team in a press conference.

Following players should never see PP time. Girardi, Pyatt

If Torts can somehow transform from a guy who coaches like he doesnt have the horses into a coach that realizes he now has the horses, the skies the limit.

Nobody in the entire NHL plays the way Torts wants the Rangers to. In their own zone blocking shots all night, and having Hank bail you out. Sticks in lanes etc. It's exhausting. Spending an entire shift in your zone is not a counter or an opportunity to create chances off defense. it's a high probability opportunity to get scored on especially when your Vezina trophy goalie is still working on his game.

In the Tampa game which they dominated T.B after the early track meet, he said in his post game that he wish they had blocked more shots but couldnt because the Rangers spent too much time in the Lightnings end.

Isn't that the point ?


Last edited by The Mouth: 02-13-2013 at 11:16 PM.
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Old
02-13-2013, 11:32 PM
  #27
Kel Varnsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
I dont want him fired. But I disapprove. On the following criteria.

On ice : The Line Changes F , The PP F, The Line Combos C, How long am I going to see Gabby w/ Richards when they have zero chemistry ? Stepan belongs with Gabby. His favorites when slumping no benchings. Richards nada, Stepan nada.

Until recently he had playing the six people he "trusts" on the entire team like some Bataan death march. I'm sorry nobody else is playing their 6th defenseman 2 minutes a night consistently in the entire league.

Stu Bickel On Wing F

Off The Ice - I'm sick of hearing about we need more Jam, Stiffness, cowboy from player X. How bout we would like to see X player rush the puck more or free wheel. His inflexibility at times is maddening. Not bringing in a PP coach to me is a neglection of duty.

His media relations F abysmal. he needs anger management. its embarrassing as a fan to have that guy represent your team in a press conference.

Following players should never see PP time. Girardi, Pyatt

If Torts can somehow transform from a guy who coaches like he doesnt have the horses into a coach that realizes he now has the horses, the skies the limit.

Nobody in the entire NHL plays the way Torts wants the Rangers to. In their own zone blocking shots all night, and having Hank bail you out. Sticks in lanes etc. It's exhausting. Spending an entire shift in your zone is not a counter or an opportunity to create chances off defense. it's a high probability opportunity to get scored on especially when your Vezina trophy goalie is still working on his game.

In the Tampa game which they dominated T.B after the early track meet, he said in his post game that he wish they had blocked more shots but couldnt because the Rangers spent too much time in the Lightnings end.

Isn't that the point ?
If you sincerely believe all that crap than why on earth wouldn't you want him fired? Something doesn't add up here. My thoughts are that you don't even truly believe all that crap you wrote about Torts.

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02-14-2013, 02:51 AM
  #28
The Mouth
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Trust me I mean everything I say. After over a dozen games this is my critique on him.

Why Fire him ? The team responds to him, he hasn't ever lost control of the lockeroom. He sticks up for his players. Players buy into his system. He has turned waiver wire defenseman into cap friendly serviceable players. Anton Stralman, Steve Eminger. He and his staff have done an awesome job developing and working with the defenseman.

He is a passionate coach on the ice, he cares. these are all pluses in his favor.

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02-14-2013, 03:25 AM
  #29
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I am with Torts , so far.

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:33 AM
  #30
ImIdaho
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Originally Posted by SFW View Post
Voted no. Doesn't mean I want him fired. Means I'm sincerely disappointed in his stubbornness when it comes to not hiring a PP specialist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
He's the head coach, the PP is ultimately his responsibility. It's a recurring problem, and it can't be blamed on poor personnel. He should be held accountable.

The frequent poor line changes are on the coach as well.

Otherwise, I think he has done a great job.
Agree with the both of you guys.

None of this ******** of not having someone who can blast a shot from the point. Nash, Gaborik, Richards: absolutely 0 reasons for this team to be 29th on the PP.

I refuse to believe no one on this team knows what a slapshot or one timer is.

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02-14-2013, 03:53 AM
  #31
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Glad to see a large majority approves of Torts. He's a great coach.

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02-14-2013, 07:02 AM
  #32
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I voted approve. I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt, but his inability to affect the PP, along with his stubbornness with his bench shortening is pissing me off. He moved away from the latter with the rolling of 4 lines lately so that's good.

I don't like out breakout or our nonexistent NZ play. I think over reliance on collapsing into the shell in our end is a weakness, possibly a fatal one as we get deep in the post season and play better squads.

Overall I think he's a good motivated and a good disciplinarian. He seems to have developed more balance in his personality. Very passionate. I still believe we lack a few pieces to take us all the way. Both F and D position

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02-14-2013, 07:10 AM
  #33
Kreider Typical
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strictly speaking towards the first quarter:

disapprove...
pp horrendous
2.67 gp/g from 2.71 (WITH RICK NASH!)
2.50 ga/g from 2.22
82.7% pk from 86.2 % pk

the only positive is that we're starting to "look" better and some other teams that started hot 'may' be falling off. poll results surprise me. he did not handle the short camp well. i'm sure we'll continue to play better, but for the start of the season-- torts does not get my vote.

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Old
02-14-2013, 07:43 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Really? These guys are professionals. How hard is it to not jump on until the guy you're going in for is jumping off? That's on the players. The PP problems should be focused more on the players as well although not to the same extent as the line change problems.

Coaches usually get too much credit when things are going well and too much blame when things are going poorly.
You're right--they're all professionals who have been doing this for years. Why, suddenly, are they all incapable of performing a routine line change? I would surmise that it's the lack of familiarity with linemates/partners (i.e. lines changing shift-to-shift) and poor communication. I don't think any of our guys have inherent problems with changing lines, so it has to be something within the structure of the system. And that would be an issue for the coach to deal with.

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Old
02-14-2013, 07:46 AM
  #35
Mio41
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Guilty of overplaying top line.
Finally starting to roll 4 lines

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Old
02-14-2013, 08:08 AM
  #36
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Results: 7-3-0 in the last 10 games.
Hockey Sense: Good use of personnel, knows teams strengths and formulates game plans that play to that strength
Personal attributes: Teacher, firm and respected

Demonstrates a good understanding of his personnel and this team plays differently than last year by utilizing their speed and offensive skill.

Media relations is not one of the critical factors for me.

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02-14-2013, 08:25 AM
  #37
Matt Carle Place
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Terrible poll. For people who disapprove of Tortorella it is not as simple as "I disapprove of him, I want him fired." There are clear flaws (PP is an albatross, breakout play is terrible, "batten down the hatches" defense, dump & chase, etc.) that are going to hurt us come playoff time and I fear that Torts is too stubborn and rigid to solve them. Still, I hope he'll rectify the flaws and so I don't want him fired...yet.

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02-14-2013, 09:11 AM
  #38
gmerger37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Carle Place View Post
Terrible poll. For people who disapprove of Tortorella it is not as simple as "I disapprove of him, I want him fired." There are clear flaws (PP is an albatross, breakout play is terrible, "batten down the hatches" defense, dump & chase, etc.) that are going to hurt us come playoff time and I fear that Torts is too stubborn and rigid to solve them. Still, I hope he'll rectify the flaws and so I don't want him fired...yet.

Right. I voted disapproval, but I by no means want Torts fired or even hate him. But looking at the start we have had through the first 25% of the season I am very disappointed and the flaws that stand out IMO fall on the coach.

If I see another bench minor I may blow a gasket. If torts has to practice line changes for an hour everyday so be it.

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:19 AM
  #39
Thordic
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I voted disapprove, based solely on the powerplay. The Rupp trade is on Sather, regardless of whether or not Torts had input.

Do I think Torts is a good coach? Absolutely. And I don't want him to go.

But the powerplay has been an issue since he got here, and even with improved personnel, the powerplay has gotten WORSE this season. That falls 100% on the coaches, if Torts did nothing else this summer he should have spent the whole damn time trying to fix the powerplay.

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02-14-2013, 09:20 AM
  #40
silverfish
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Disapprove. I'm not a Torts guy.

Only 2 games over .500, and the 29th pp in the league? Sorry. Yes, Sullivan runs the PP, but Sully is Torts' boy and only here because of Torts.

Stubbornness to change the style of play mid-game when things aren't working, dedication to one and only one system.

The Rangers breakout of choice is d-men blindly throwing it up the boards. 95% of the time it's just giving away possession to the other team.

I don't like the way this team plays most of the time. Even last season I didn't like it, and they finished tops in the conference So, how much do I know? Maybe not a lot.

I don't know how anyone can be satisified with this team only being in 8th place a quarter of the way into the season. The Rangers have lost five games in the first twelve games. Last season in their first 48 the Rangers lost 12 games in regulation, and 5 in OT/SO.

This three game winning streak is nice and all, but I can't wait to look back on this thread the next time the Rangers lose a game and this board goes ape ****.

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02-14-2013, 09:22 AM
  #41
NikC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Carle Place View Post
Terrible poll. For people who disapprove of Tortorella it is not as simple as "I disapprove of him, I want him fired." There are clear flaws (PP is an albatross, breakout play is terrible, "batten down the hatches" defense, dump & chase, etc.) that are going to hurt us come playoff time and I fear that Torts is too stubborn and rigid to solve them. Still, I hope he'll rectify the flaws and so I don't want him fired...yet.
agreed. Torts used to announce to the media how bad this team was, and that we weren't a good hockey team.... Well now he has considerably better personel under his charge and we still see persistent problems.

sooner or later we'll find out if Torts can harness talent within his system

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02-14-2013, 09:28 AM
  #42
nyr2k2
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Originally Posted by Matt Carle Place View Post
Terrible poll. For people who disapprove of Tortorella it is not as simple as "I disapprove of him, I want him fired." There are clear flaws (PP is an albatross, breakout play is terrible, "batten down the hatches" defense, dump & chase, etc.) that are going to hurt us come playoff time and I fear that Torts is too stubborn and rigid to solve them. Still, I hope he'll rectify the flaws and so I don't want him fired...yet.
You're reading into it too much. It's not about firing him. I think most of us understand that you can disapprove without wanting a guy fired. I happen to approve of his overall performance but find fault in some aspects of his leadership. The poll is simple--just a simple approve or disapprove for quantitative tracking throughout the season. Nothing more.

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02-14-2013, 09:28 AM
  #43
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You are never going to approve of everything a coach does, even a proven Hall of Fame coach.

Overall the Rangers could be better in a lot of areas but I don't know what the exact causes for their problems are. I'll point out that they've maneuvered through a ridiculous stretch that has included playing the top 4 teams in the conference like 60% of the time, and they are 7-5 through it.

If they continue to struggle in the next month, I'll begin to get frustrated with Torts maybe, but for now I'm fine.

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02-14-2013, 09:36 AM
  #44
mschmidt64
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I don't know how anyone can be satisified with this team only being in 8th place a quarter of the way into the season. The Rangers have lost five games in the first twelve games. Last season in their first 48 the Rangers lost 12 games in regulation, and 5 in OT/SO.
Our 5 losses have been to the Penguins, Penguins, Bruins, Flyers, and Devils.

That's the best 3 teams in the conference and a tough division opponent in the Flyers who are struggling, but certainly aren't bad.

I've said before, I know "to be the best you have to beat the best" but with so much roster turnover, it's not surprising that those teams -- all of whom are excellent teams with lots of roster continuity -- are ahead of us.

We haven't played the cupcakes yet. In the next few weeks we play the overwhelming majority of our games against teams like Montreal, Ottawa, Washington, NYI, Winnipeg, etc. We don't play a single team better than the 6th seed until MARCH 16TH!!!

If we haven't run out our record to a much more impressive point by mid March, then I'll worry. But given our last few performances (convincing multi-goal wins against NYI, TB, and a dominating 2.5 periods against Boston), I expect us to be solidly in the top 4 if not better by that time.

If we're not, then I'll agree that Torts isn't doing his job. But I would say something in the vicinity of 8-4-0 or better (8-3-1; 8-2-2; 9-2-1, etc) is more likely in that stretch.


Last edited by mschmidt64: 02-14-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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Old
02-14-2013, 09:39 AM
  #45
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Our 5 losses have been to the Penguins, Penguins, Bruins, Flyers, and Devils.

That's the best 3 teams in the conference and a tough division opponent in the Flyers who are struggling, but certainly aren't bad.

I've said before, I know "to be the best you have to beat the best" but with so much roster turnover, it's not surprising that those teams -- all of whom are excellent teams with lots of roster continuity -- are ahead of us.

We haven't played the cupcakes yet. In the next few weeks we play the overwhelming majority of our games against teams like Montreal, Ottawa, Washington, NYI, Winnipeg, etc. We don't play a single team better than the 6th seed until MARCH 16TH!!!

If we haven't run out our record to a much more impressive point by mid March, then I'll worry. But given our last few performances (convincing multi-goal wins against NYI, TB, and a dominating 2.5 periods against Boston), I expect us to be solidly in the top 4 if not better by that time.

If we're not, then I'll agree that Torts isn't doing his job.
Yeah and "only in 8th place" is kind of misleading. Four points out of fourth with two games in hand. It's too early to look at the standings.

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:43 AM
  #46
silverfish
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Yeah and "only in 8th place" is kind of misleading. Four points out of fourth with two games in hand. It's too early to look at the standings.
5 points ahead of 15th too

But I get what you're saying (if not further proving your point with my above statement).

I was hoping for better after 12 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
Our 5 losses have been to the Penguins, Penguins, Bruins, Flyers, and Devils.

That's the best 3 teams in the conference and a tough division opponent in the Flyers who are struggling, but certainly aren't bad.

I've said before, I know "to be the best you have to beat the best" but with so much roster turnover, it's not surprising that those teams -- all of whom are excellent teams with lots of roster continuity -- are ahead of us.

We haven't played the cupcakes yet. In the next few weeks we play the overwhelming majority of our games against teams like Montreal, Ottawa, Washington, NYI, Winnipeg, etc. We don't play a single team better than the 6th seed until MARCH 16TH!!!

If we haven't run out our record to a much more impressive point by mid March, then I'll worry. But given our last few performances (convincing multi-goal wins against NYI, TB, and a dominating 2.5 periods against Boston), I expect us to be solidly in the top 4 if not better by that time.

If we're not, then I'll agree that Torts isn't doing his job.
Yeah valid points, but those are the teams we'll be seeing in the playoffs. The teams we need to be beating.

It's the quarter mark, it's early. I don't want Torts fired or anything, but again I expected better. Let's see what kind of tune the Rangers are singing come the halfway point.

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02-14-2013, 09:56 AM
  #47
mschmidt64
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Our biggest problem right now by far is that, in this shortened season, we have to make sure we don't draw Pittsburgh in the first round. Cause for some reason, they just have our number and I have no confidence in being able to beat them.

Like I said above, after our next 12 games, we're gonna be in that 4-seed territory or better, is my expectation.

Problem is, Pittsburgh is the 4 seed right now. If we end up 4, they end up 5.... uh, we don't want that first round matchup.

I'd rather be the 6th seed and play Carolina. Obviously though I'd much prefer to be a higher seed, like the 1, 2, or 3 seed.

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02-14-2013, 10:00 AM
  #48
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Team winning? Approve.

Ask this in the middle of a losing streak haha.

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02-14-2013, 10:02 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Yes Sullivan is in charge of running our PP.


Torts positives:

Everything you said.

Torts negatives:

Guilty of overplaying top line. I personally would like to see either Nash or Gaborik on the second line to spread out scoring.

We are still routinely bent over by Pittsburgh. No progress there.
Nash is on 2nd Line with Stepan.

PA has the two best players in the league acquired by 1st and 2nd overall picks.

The PP has recently been left up to the players input and allowed to do what they feel best rather than a structure by coaching.

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02-14-2013, 10:38 AM
  #50
Kreider Typical
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Nash is on 2nd Line with Stepan.

PA has the two best players in the league acquired by 1st and 2nd overall picks.

The PP has recently been left up to the players input and allowed to do what they feel best rather than a structure by coaching.
not entirely. they admitted that they had some set plays that they go by... and even if it was 100% in the player's hands, that is still a coaching decision. is this why people don't blame the coaching staff? because the players can't produce?.. i mean we've all seen sully and the dry-erase board

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