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Old
01-26-2013, 01:48 PM
  #26
Ivan13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Nope. We have a ton of young centers. I have no problem waiting for them to see how they pan out, especially considering that there are no d-men in our prospect pool even close to looking like future no 1 D. Not to mention the value -- not a fan of it. ROR is a very good player but if I'm trading a franchise potential D, I want a franchise potential player coming back the other way, which ROR is not.

I don't understand all the hate Myers has been getting lately from BUF fans. Kid is very young and toolsy. We've seen what he can do when he's on, and that is dominate games. Defensemen often take a while to ripen and hit their prime. Chara wasn't anything too special until he was 25 or so. Have some patience.
I don't see franchise potential in Myers, I think he'll end up as a good top pairing d-man, which is pretty good, but he just doesn't look like a franchise player to me.

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01-26-2013, 03:40 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Nope. We have a ton of young centers. I have no problem waiting for them to see how they pan out, especially considering that there are no d-men in our prospect pool even close to looking like future no 1 D. Not to mention the value -- not a fan of it. ROR is a very good player but if I'm trading a franchise potential D, I want a franchise potential player coming back the other way, which ROR is not.

I don't understand all the hate Myers has been getting lately from BUF fans. Kid is very young and toolsy. We've seen what he can do when he's on, and that is dominate games. Defensemen often take a while to ripen and hit their prime. Chara wasn't anything too special until he was 25 or so. Have some patience.
At the time when the Senators had to choose between Redden and Chara...most posters thought Redden was the one to keep. In hindsight...most posters were wrong.

But yeah, it's tough to say with D-men. That certainly doesn't guarantee Myers will progress more, but it certainly is possible.

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:01 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Or one who's as soft as Myers. Trading Radar before having Stastny signed longterm makes no sense whatsoever.

PS

Given his maddeningly inconsistent play I don't see how Myers is more valuable than Radar (a pretty good 21 year old playmaking center who led the league in takeaways and is a briliant defensive forward in the mold of Patrice Bergeron) in any aspect of the game of hockey.
Ok, now that you have shown your love for O'Reilly (which I have too, love the guy to death), consider the fact that trading O'Reilly for 6'8, 220lb defenceman who's ammassed 109 points in 221 career games so far, including his 48 point rookie season, which was only 7 less than O'Reilly's career high, and I think the Avs take this deal and run. Yes O'Reilly is a fantastic player and most likely will be a great two way player for the rest of his career, but a player like Myers does not come along often, with his size and skill

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01-27-2013, 07:09 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
Ok, now that you have shown your love for O'Reilly (which I have too, love the guy to death), consider the fact that trading O'Reilly for 6'8, 220lb defenceman who's ammassed 109 points in 221 career games so far, including his 48 point rookie season, which was only 7 less than O'Reilly's career high, and I think the Avs take this deal and run. Yes O'Reilly is a fantastic player and most likely will be a great two way player for the rest of his career, but a player like Myers does not come along often, with his size and skill
He could be even bigger, but what good does that make when he doesn't use his frame at all? There's no freaking way I'd trade Radar for Myers right now (I won't even go into the Barrie for Adam part of the proposal which severely favours the Sabres), given the fact that we have no idea if Stastny will re-sign with the Avs, given Myers's inconsistent play, given his absurd contract (I bet EJ would be pretty happy to have a guy worse than him making 2mil more) and last but certainly not the least given the obvious hole we have without Radar in our lineup (look no further than last night beatdown against the Sharks where Radar's great defensive presence could've really made a difference).

He gives us something that we sorely miss right now, a guy who can go against opposing top lines. Trading him right now is shortsighted at best.

PS

I forgot probably the most important part, Myers is a RH shot, which in turn means we'd pay a 2nd pairing defenseman 5.5mil and it's not like we lack RH d-men in our system.

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01-27-2013, 08:46 AM
  #30
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Oh Sabres fans. 2 Losses...in a ROW?

LETS TRADE EVERYONE WHO ISN'T PLAYING AMAZING RIGHT NOW

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #31
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I think the initial trade benefits the Avalanche more. Losing O'Reilly would suck, but at least they are deep at C and can continue without him. Our defence without Myers looks abysmal, so no thanks.

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01-27-2013, 11:04 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
I think the initial trade benefits the Avalanche more. Losing O'Reilly would suck, but at least they are deep at C and can continue without him. Our defence without Myers looks abysmal, so no thanks.
Stastny is an UFA after next season, so we aren't as deep at center as you might think.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:44 AM
  #33
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I'm pulling the trigger from a Sabres perspective. It could be because I have a mancrush on O'Reilly but he's exactly what the Sabres are missing and Myers scares the hell out of me. His game (not just these 4 games, most of last season as well) hardly resembles that of his Calder winning season and his contract was premature to say the least.

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Old
02-14-2013, 08:57 AM
  #34
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So in an earlier post, I was perhaps a little ignorant of O'Reilly's value, but I have now done my research and seen the error of my ways. I would offer the following:



Stafford-or-Ennis
Girgensons



O'Reilly
2nd

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:00 AM
  #35
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I'd include Myers at this point. His staggering fall has made him at least to the point if talkable

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:13 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjeurekasky View Post
So in an earlier post, I was perhaps a little ignorant of O'Reilly's value, but I have now done my research and seen the error of my ways. I would offer the following:



Stafford-or-Ennis
Girgensons



O'Reilly
2nd
I'd have to imagine that if you were giving Colorado that either-or proposition, Ennis would be the resounding winner. Ennis-Girgensons is a very good haul for ROR, especially when you consider Ennis has 3.5 more years of team control, and Colorado would have 6.5 years of control over Girgensons. Zemgus, if he pans out, could potentially replace a bit of what Colorado lost with O'Reilly. Given his work ethic, he'll probably be a good NHL player in a year or two.

If that's the framework, I'd rather take out the 2nd and ask for one of their young goaltenders. They've got Varly, and I'd imagine one of Pickard or Aittokallio will be the backup after Giguere moves on. I don't think Enroth is a long-term answer in Buffalo, nor are Knapp/Lieuwen, so I'd like to add one of those guys in this trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptPantalones View Post
I'd include Myers at this point. His staggering fall has made him at least to the point if talkable
As I said on Page 1 three weeks ago, I would've offered Myers then and I would offer him now and I'd offer him three weeks from now. But one has to wonder if Colorado would want that contract. On the other hand, with his $10m signing bonus already delivered, the Avs would owe him $26.5m (plus the pro-rated portion of his $2m salary this year) over the next six years. If you look at it in those terms (Myers for 6yrs/$26.5m) is palatable, especially if he can regain his form and keep it consistently.

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02-14-2013, 09:18 AM
  #37
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I'd want Myers.

Any idea of he played the left side before and could partner with EJ or not?

What would Buffalo offer if Myers was the intended target?

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:31 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I'd want Myers.

Any idea of he played the left side before and could partner with EJ or not?

What would Buffalo offer if Myers was the intended target?
No, Myers only plays the right side, even on the PP.
And I sincerely doubt Buffalo even thinks about moving him.

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:40 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjeurekasky View Post
So in an earlier post, I was perhaps a little ignorant of O'Reilly's value, but I have now done my research and seen the error of my ways. I would offer the following:



Stafford-or-Ennis
Girgensons



O'Reilly
2nd
I'd do that. We'd have 3 scoring lines and then we could just trade girgensons for a defenceman.

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:50 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjeurekasky View Post
So in an earlier post, I was perhaps a little ignorant of O'Reilly's value, but I have now done my research and seen the error of my ways. I would offer the following:



Stafford-or-Ennis
Girgensons



O'Reilly
2nd
Counter
Ennis+McNAbb (sorry fellow Avs fans)+Griginsons
for
O'Reilly+2nd+Pickard

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02-14-2013, 09:54 AM
  #41
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As I said in the other thread, Hodgson or Ennis straight up. Adding doesn't make sense. He's being traded because you won't pay him. You want someone cheaper, you have take give a slight discount.

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Old
02-14-2013, 10:00 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
Counter
Ennis+McNAbb (sorry fellow Avs fans)+Griginsons
for
O'Reilly+2nd+Pickard
Take out the second and Girginsons.

Ennis+McNabb+4th
For
O'Reilly+Pickard

Although if Col just couldnt take McNabb for his hit on Hishon, then Swap him for Girgs. I would just rather have Girgs long term rather than Mac.

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02-14-2013, 10:07 AM
  #43
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As I said in the other thread, Hodgson or Ennis straight up. Adding doesn't make sense. He's being traded because you won't pay him. You want someone cheaper, you have take give a slight discount.
What good does trading Hodgy do us? It leaves us in a VERY similar situation to what we're in right now. Trading CoHo makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. For the deal for O'Reilly to make sense, we need to keep CoHo in place. The only reasonable explanation for trading CoHo for O'Reilly would be because we expect Grigorenko and Girgensons to be ready for #2/#3 C duty next year. Which is possible, but I think we're going to want to see them both develop a bit longer.

I think the better piece, as much as I wouldn't want to do it, would be Ennis.

And I'd be thrilled if they wanted a deal involving Ennis/McNabb for him. O'Reilly gives us a defensive presence with some offense penciled in. Grigs could be paired with more of a scoring group, and eventually have Girgensons perhaps move to a wing... And maybe that line could be joined by Armia.

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02-14-2013, 10:12 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Take out the second and Girginsons.

Ennis+McNabb+4th
For
O'Reilly+Pickard

Although if Col just couldnt take McNabb for his hit on Hishon, then Swap him for Girgs. I would just rather have Girgs long term rather than Mac.
I can see this as a good trade.

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02-14-2013, 10:13 AM
  #45
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I would say its probably a good thing for both sides to have Girgenssons in the package for ROR, since he is a similar type of player and could replace ROR in Colorado down the road, while Buffalo can afford to lose him since they are bringing in a more developed version of him. The Ennis+Girgs for ROR+2nd looked pretty fair to me.

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Old
02-14-2013, 10:13 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RattleYourSabre View Post
What good does trading Hodgy do us? It leaves us in a VERY similar situation to what we're in right now. Trading CoHo makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. For the deal for O'Reilly to make sense, we need to keep CoHo in place. The only reasonable explanation for trading CoHo for O'Reilly would be because we expect Grigorenko and Girgensons to be ready for #2/#3 C duty next year. Which is possible, but I think we're going to want to see them both develop a bit longer.

I think the better piece, as much as I wouldn't want to do it, would be Ennis.

And I'd be thrilled if they wanted a deal involving Ennis/McNabb for him. O'Reilly gives us a defensive presence with some offense penciled in. Grigs could be paired with more of a scoring group, and eventually have Girgensons perhaps move to a wing... And maybe that line could be joined by Armia.
What is the difference between Ennis and Hodgson? There isn't much. Ennis is the better defensive player, but Hodgson the VHS line is going well. Of course, it could be argued anyone could play with Vanek right now, but nobody else has had a chance.

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02-14-2013, 10:21 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
What is the difference between Ennis and Hodgson? There isn't much. Ennis is the better defensive player, but Hodgson the VHS line is going well. Of course, it could be argued anyone could play with Vanek right now, but nobody else has had a chance.
I'd say that the difference is, and this is just me, and I could be wrong...

But, I think Ennis is a better scoring type of player. He does a pretty good job of putting the puck in the net. He's also slightly better defensively.

Hodgy has improved to the point where he's better at the dot and has a decent shot that can find the twine, but I think he's much more creative with the puck.

To use a basketball analogy, Hodgy is more like John Stockton while Ennis is more like Derrick Rose. Maybe not in the caliber of their play, but style.

Hodgy facilitates better. Ennis scores better. Neither are bad either way.

And to me, that's why you keep Hodgy. To facilitate to Vanek/Pominville.

ROR can produce points but is also better defensively than both of them.

Grigorenko has the potential to be a big time scorer that could very well be better than Ennis.

And if we can somehow keep Girgensons, we can move him to a wing to play along side Grigs OR O'Reilly.

That's my reasoning. *shrug*

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02-14-2013, 10:31 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RattleYourSabre View Post
I'd say that the difference is, and this is just me, and I could be wrong...

But, I think Ennis is a better scoring type of player. He does a pretty good job of putting the puck in the net. He's also slightly better defensively.

Hodgy has improved to the point where he's better at the dot and has a decent shot that can find the twine, but I think he's much more creative with the puck.

To use a basketball analogy, Hodgy is more like John Stockton while Ennis is more like Derrick Rose. Maybe not in the caliber of their play, but style.

Hodgy facilitates better. Ennis scores better. Neither are bad either way.

And to me, that's why you keep Hodgy. To facilitate to Vanek/Pominville.
I
ROR can produce points but is also better defensively than both of them.

Grigorenko has the potential to be a big time scorer that could very well be better than Ennis.

And if we can somehow keep Girgensons, we can move him to a wing to play along side Grigs OR O'Reilly.

That's my reasoning. *shrug*
Ok, I can run with that. The issue I have is that some want to trade Ennis + a major prospect, while not willing to move CoHo straight up. Horrible use of assets when values are very similar.

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02-14-2013, 10:34 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ok, I can run with that. The issue I have is that some want to trade Ennis + a major prospect, while not willing to move CoHo straight up. Horrible use of assets when values are very similar.
Perhaps.

Ennis' value is increased by his defensive value over Hodgy. Hodgy has made strides there, but Ennis is still probably slightly better. Plus he has the ability to score. I think Ennis/McNabb or something similar is a must for a deal for ROR, simply due to what I *think* COL would be thinking.

But yeah, I see your point. I wouldn't trade Hodgy straight up. But I also don't think COL would accept that deal, either.

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02-14-2013, 10:46 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by CowbellConray View Post
Take out the second and Girginsons.

Ennis+McNabb+4th
For
O'Reilly+Pickard

Although if Col just couldnt take McNabb for his hit on Hishon, then Swap him for Girgs. I would just rather have Girgs long term rather than Mac.
I like this idea.

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